Character development

[SecondCircle]

I always try to keep in mind that characters, like real people, have flaws. And that's okay.

Think about everyone you know, how different they are from you. Different views, different upbringings. People have setbacks and differences, as well as strengths that make them excel. So many times I read or write a character that does things I don't agree with or act a way I wouldn't.

But that's what makes them characters, not carbon copies. They have their flaws because they are their own person, with their own struggles and point of view. Let them be. And you may find that they'll begin to grow and flourish all by themselves.

My characters usually kinda form on their own so to speak, I guess because I draw from the different characters I've known. Thus, I never feel too much need for character sheets, unless like others have said it's a long intricate tale.

 

[Bramblethorn]

One point to remember:

Just because you, the author, know something about a character does not mean you have to tell the reader(s).

In other words, no matter how detailed your character sheet is for a character, only include what is relevant to the story. It may help you to know that john doe was raised by his reclusive grandfather, but if that doesn't affect john's action or reactions, the reader doesn't need to know about it.

Even when it does affect John's personality, you don't always need to tell it.

It can be quite useful to have unwritten backstory in mind. If I know Jane was a foster child who was mistreated by her foster parents, even if that's not something she'd ever reveal, it's still helpful in fleshing out a believable personality that hangs together.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Backstory is never interesting, and life doesn't unfold with backstory. So I don't fool with it. People initiate action or react, and that's where I prefer to keep the story. And the tree is known by its fruit.

 

[DiminutiveDame]

Now my questions have changed. ^^

I like the idea of watching my character develop and grow and things change, difficulties are thrown at them and they then have to react.

When writing do you always just have a fully formed idea and things just flow or do you just play with the character? Write a scene simple to see how you character unfolds, even if it isn't going to be used.

I don't get idea's for stories so much as a simple thought or notion, a single line sometimes. But I want to learn the skills to develop my writing, learn, practice, without feeling like there is a wrong way to do so.

 

[Hypoxia]

Backstory is never interesting, and life doesn't unfold with backstory. So I don't fool with it. People initiate action or react, and that's where I prefer to keep the story. And the tree is known by its fruit.

Life unfolds ATOP backstory, not with it. Backstory informs a character, drives their options and actions. A vicious dipshit or naive sucker or whatever doesn't just pop into the world fully-formed; such are made, not born, and backstory is the atelier.

A sufficient backstory might be a plot gerbil chewing its way into the tale. Maybe only the author knows that a ship's crewman keeps a pet rhesus monkey, or maybe that detail creeps into the story, not to drive it, just to flavor it. Backstory is MSG when we cook the tale.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Life unfolds ATOP backstory, not with it. Backstory informs a character, drives their options and actions. A vicious dipshit or naive sucker or whatever doesn't just pop into the world fully-formed; such are made, not born, and backstory is the atelier.

A sufficient backstory might be a plot gerbil chewing its way into the tale. Maybe only the author knows that a ship's crewman keeps a pet rhesus monkey, or maybe that detail creeps into the story, not to drive it, just to flavor it. Backstory is MSG when we cook the tale.

Our backstorys are total bull shit we invent. The monkey was prolly a raccoon.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Life unfolds ATOP backstory, not with it. Backstory informs a character, drives their options and actions. A vicious dipshit or naive sucker or whatever doesn't just pop into the world fully-formed; such are made, not born, and backstory is the atelier.

A sufficient backstory might be a plot gerbil chewing its way into the tale. Maybe only the author knows that a ship's crewman keeps a pet rhesus monkey, or maybe that detail creeps into the story, not to drive it, just to flavor it. Backstory is MSG when we cook the tale.

Indeed. And revealing backstory at the right moment can be a very powerful technique when it puts recent events in a different light - see e.g. "Memento" or Agatha Christie's "The Mirror Crack'd From Side To Side".

 

[sr71plt]

Life unfolds ATOP backstory.

Yep. As is often the case, I think JBJ was going for "cute" and shock value here rather than meaning.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Yep. As is often the case, I think JBJ was going for "cute" and shock value here rather than meaning.

When you grow a character, and use alcohol as a beverage, get back with me.

 

[sr71plt]

When you grow a character, and use alcohol as a beverage, get back with me.

Why would I bother to do that? You're all hot air and someone else's ideas and words.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Why would I bother to do that? You're all hot air and someone else's ideas and words.

Is that OLD GRAND DAD talking?

 

[sr71plt]

Is that OLD GRAND DAD talking?

No. That's me. I'm not surprised you don't want to face how empty and sad you are.

 

[lovecraft68]

I'm going to preface this by saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking things through and seeking out the way other people's minds work.

But when I see a thread like this it dawns on me how little I think or worry about anything.

I just write. I get an idea and I sit and let the story unfold. I don't outline I don't use character sheets and I never over think. Half the time I don't feel I even consciously "think" while writing.

I know what works for me does not work for other and the other way around, but I see planning/worrying/thinking/ plotting as ......time I could be writing. I also feel-my opinion of course- that all of that "locks" you in and stifles creative flow.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

No. That's me. I'm not surprised you don't want to face how empty and sad you are.

Thanks for the laugh.

 

[sr71plt]

Thanks for the laugh.

Yet another "there's no there there" response.

 

[_Lynn_]

I'm going to preface this by saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking things through and seeking out the way other people's minds work.

But when I see a thread like this it dawns on me how little I think or worry about anything.

I just write. I get an idea and I sit and let the story unfold. I don't outline I don't use character sheets and I never over think. Half the time I don't feel I even consciously "think" while writing.

I know what works for me does not work for other and the other way around, but I see planning/worrying/thinking/ plotting as ......time I could be writing. I also feel-my opinion of course- that all of that "locks" you in and stifles creative flow.

I agree with that.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Yet another "there's no there there" response.

Youre right.

 

[DiminutiveDame]

I'm going to preface this by saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking things through and seeking out the way other people's minds work.

But when I see a thread like this it dawns on me how little I think or worry about anything.

I just write. I get an idea and I sit and let the story unfold. I don't outline I don't use character sheets and I never over think. Half the time I don't feel I even consciously "think" while writing.

I know what works for me does not work for other and the other way around, but I see planning/worrying/thinking/ plotting as ......time I could be writing. I also feel-my opinion of course- that all of that "locks" you in and stifles creative flow.

Thank you.
I have never worried about anything like that before and it was only because I hadn't, that I thought maybe I should be, and asked.

People always say write all the time, anything so long as you're writing. But unless I have an idea I like and can just let flow, I end up struggling and just stop writing.

So thank you, it's nice to know there are other writers who don't have a plan and map out every detail.

Though I still do want to learn more.

 

[Hypoxia]

I'm going to preface this by saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking things through and seeking out the way other people's minds work.

But when I see a thread like this it dawns on me how little I think or worry about anything.

I just write. I get an idea and I sit and let the story unfold. I don't outline I don't use character sheets and I never over think. Half the time I don't feel I even consciously "think" while writing.

I know what works for me does not work for other and the other way around, but I see planning/worrying/thinking/ plotting as ......time I could be writing. I also feel-my opinion of course- that all of that "locks" you in and stifles creative flow.

Similar. Yeah, for any author: whatever works. Good classic hard-SciFi-ers would write detailed notes on the planetographies of invented worlds, sort of like building detailed character sheets, to ensure continuity of details etc. Others of us wing-it a bit more.

My 'journal' series (RON, ALAN, DEXTER, RUTH, and some of RANDY like THAT'S MY GIRL) are based on recorded accounts, which function as timelines and character studies, making my writing much easier. As I mentioned above, my chars who are or are based on real acquaintances also don't need me to list their natures and development, because I *know* them. Same with invented chars who come to life inside my head -- they plot out their own fates, thank you very much.

So far, I mostly need notes on timelines and characters for longer tales (a generation or more) where I need to track major chars' ages. Prime example: BRIDE OF KONG, covering 1968-2014. I included my timeline notes at the end of each chapter. Also for complex tales: Everyone in JENNY BE FAIR is invented and it's of short duration but the pseudo-incestuous relationships were complex enough that I needed to write a genealogy of the few major and many minor chars. I'm stuck on the sequel because the genealogies will be even MORE complex and I haven't got an elegant solution yet FTW.

So much for chars. Plot is another matter. Again, 'journal'-type stories don't need much plotting; just follow the events. The XYZ-BOMBER story is my newest example -- a snapshot in time. I've read a bit on conscious plotting these last few weeks and have tried to write some 'invented' pieces according to a 3-part or 5-part formula, with mixed results. I seem to do better just to set up a situation and let the chars work out the events themselves. Some sort of resolution occurs, and the story ends, with a bang or a whimper or a tease, whatever.

Yes, sometimes I'm just the dictation secretary. Alas, some of my transcriptions are rejected; you won't see my gory revenge story THE PHARMACIST or my trephination / brain-damage fetish story LIKE A HOLE IN THE HEAD here on LIT. I blame the characters. They led me astray. I'm innocent. It's not my fault. Mommy... [/me whimpers]

 

[Bramblethorn]

When writing do you always just have a fully formed idea and things just flow or do you just play with the character? Write a scene simple to see how you character unfolds, even if it isn't going to be used.

Generally when I'm writing a scene I have some idea of where I want it to end up and things that I want to happen along the way, but within those guides I try to let it flow. And sometimes I do decide to change the plan - especially in a long story, it's hard to gauge some things at the outline stage.

But I do find that starting out with a plan greatly improves the chances that I'll finish the damn thing - even if the final version doesn't look much like the original plan. I hate that feeling of writing the first half of a great story and then painting myself into a corner.

I'm going to preface this by saying there is absolutely nothing wrong with thinking things through and seeking out the way other people's minds work.

But when I see a thread like this it dawns on me how little I think or worry about anything.

I just write. I get an idea and I sit and let the story unfold. I don't outline I don't use character sheets and I never over think. Half the time I don't feel I even consciously "think" while writing.

I know what works for me does not work for other and the other way around, but I see planning/worrying/thinking/ plotting as ......time I could be writing. I also feel-my opinion of course- that all of that "locks" you in and stifles creative flow.

TBH, I don't like planning either. I'd much rather be writing. For short pieces I can skip planning and make it up as I go; as long as I have a good feel for my characters' personality, I can make my own fun.

But for bigger stories, planning up-front can save me a lot of writer's block later, and if I have a complex structure it's essential. At the moment I'm writing a detective/horror story (Innsmouth noir kinda thing). I have about four plot threads that interact with one another, and I need to coordinate them so the flow of the story doesn't feel uneven. For instance, one of the characters has a Big Secret that relates to two different threads; one of them works better if the secret gets revealed late in the piece, the other requires it to be revealed early, so I want to plan out how I'm going to handle that.

Once I have that skeleton, then I can sit down and be creative without getting distracted by worries about painting myself into a corner: I know this scene needs to establish X and Y, and I don't have to hold all the rest of the story in my head. (For the programmers out there, it's basically "design by contract".)

 

[sr71plt]

I just make a few notes before starting anything--so that I don't have to stop while bleeding into the computer to go look something up (or don't have to stop too often).

 

[Hypoxia]

I just make a few notes before starting anything--so that I don't have to stop while bleeding into the computer to go look something up (or don't have to stop too often).

Oh yeah, notes, well sure. At bedtime I smoke a (prescribed) bowl and crawl off into directed dreamland, consciously trying NOT to devise story elements that I'll forget before morning. But those damn plot gerbils chew into my thinking anyway. So I switch on the light and scribble a few notes (Jill wants to make enough money to buy Scotland; Randy rants about unprotected sex; etc). When I'm awake and cognizant, I keyboard those ideas in brackets, then flesh them out later.

JILL: Yeah, I want to make enough money to buy Scotland.
RAN: Why the fuck would you want to own Scotland? What the fuck would you do with it?
JILL: Oh, I don't want to OWN Scotland, dummy. Then I'd have to run it. BO-ring! No, I just want to have that much money, is all. I'd rather own Tahiti.

Yeah, it works for me.

 

[sr71plt]

Guess I'm luckier. Most of my story nuggets drop as I'm waking up.

 

[SamScribble]

Many, many, many years ago, one of my tutors said that characters can only ever be what they say and what do. ‘You’re the author. You decide what your characters say; you decide what they do; ipso facto, you decide who they are and how they develop. Don’t overthink it.’ (Although, to be honest, I'm not sure whether she would have written 'overthink' as one word or two.)

 

[DiminutiveDame]

I started keeping a small note book and pen inside my pillow case for those moments when you get a great idea (Or what seems like one) and are too sleepy to get up.
Well that's in there along with a small tin of mints and some cough drops, anyway.