Chapters or Not?

[chasten]

I'm curious why authors write their stories in chapters. This is not a rant that people do it...I've done it myself...it's more a question of why.

On the surface, it seems unnecessary. I mean, usually we're talking about stories of novelette to novella length which, in the rest of the world, are rarely chaptered.

Is it because that's the way the author writes--i.e., write a scene, want to get it posted while they figure out what they want to say next?

Or, is there some empirical evidence that readers here prefer the short 2-3 page blocks?

Does anyone have any thoughts?

 

[oggbashan]

Whatever you do, some readers won't like it.

I've written complete stories with chapters and posted it as one complete submission. I have taken previously posted chapters and made them one piece.

I've written chapters and posted them separately.

I've written stories with the same characters that are sequels, but I try to make them understandable on their own.

But - with some stories I take a long time to complete and leave the readers waiting for the final chapters, sometimes for years.

Some writers write dozens of chapters that are really stroke scenes. But their work can be popular, far more popular than my work.

The only Lit rule is that you can't submit a 'chapter' as a themed contest entry.

Novels and Novellas is not a popular category I think because the readers don't know what they will get, compared with the other categories that are more specific.

Do want you want to do.

 

[PennLady]

I think many people post in chapters because they don't have the entire story done at once, so they post what they have. I've read in the forums that some authors prefer this because the feedback they get on those chapters gives them the encouragement and energy to continue the story.

A couple of years ago, I was posting on another site in addition to Lit, and the editor there told me that she preferred both to post and read in about 10k-word blocks or less. She would post something a bit longer than that, but I've found that 10k-word to be a good guideline. That's about 3-4 Lit pages, for example, and that's about all I have time to sit and read at one time. If I can't read more than that, I don't like to ask readers to do more than I can, so I usually post in 8-12k word blocks myself.

If I go to a story and see that it's five pages or more, I usually click off. That's a shame, b/c I am probably missing some good stories, but my time is limited. On the other hand, the winner of the last Halloween contest was something like 12 screen pages, so certainly some people will find or take the time to read a longer story.

And I can tell you that other sites like LushStories actually have limits. Lush's limit is (as I recall) 10k words or 40k characters. And from my exchanges with readers over there, they prefer even smaller bites, say from 3-5k. So many stories here would have to be broken up to be posted there.

So I'd say there's some empirical evidence that readers prefer blocks of about 10k words, but I wouldn't extrapolate much from it.

 

[chasten]

oggbashan - I actually wasn't suggesting posting in Novels and Novellas; sorry that wasn't clear. I was just using their "accepted" word counts as illustration.

PennLady - That's interesting information and, I think, pretty much at the heart of what I'm asking. The "don't have the entire story done at once" part on the author's side isn't really my focus, but the part about lengths that people have said they prefer to read is dead on.

I'm, perhaps, the opposite of you. If it's a story I like, I want the whole thing. With an author I generally like, I will actually wait until the story is completed and then go back and read it. Although, if it's a new author, I'll sample the first chapter. But, I can see people wanting a quick hit each day and not wanting to invest in long stories.

 

[oggbashan]

oggbashan - I actually wasn't suggesting posting in Novels and Novellas; sorry that wasn't clear. I was just using their "accepted" word counts as illustration.

...

Neither am I. There are many multi-Lit page stories posted in other categories.

Readers do have preferences for length. I have had complaints that my stories are far too long, far too short (excluding my 50-word stories that are very very short), or not long enough.

I think that a story/plot should define its own length.

 

[PennLady]

PennLady - That's interesting information and, I think, pretty much at the heart of what I'm asking. The "don't have the entire story done at once" part on the author's side isn't really my focus, but the part about lengths that people have said they prefer to read is dead on.

The author's side may not have been your focus, but it is the driving force on any story. If the author writes it they can post it, no matter the length. If they don't write it, there's nothing there, if you see what I mean. So I think stories getting posted in installments has more to do with the writer than the reader. That said, I think some writers, myself included, try to cater a little to a reader's needs in the sense of time.

I'm, perhaps, the opposite of you. If it's a story I like, I want the whole thing. With an author I generally like, I will actually wait until the story is completed and then go back and read it. Although, if it's a new author, I'll sample the first chapter. But, I can see people wanting a quick hit each day and not wanting to invest in long stories.

I have known others to say they do the same as you, wait for an entire story before reading it. And that's fine. I guess b/c I feel my time is limited, I sort of take what I can get. Plus I'm impatient. If the next bit of something I'm reading is there, then I'll read it.

 

[Darkniciad]

If your story or chapter is over 3 Lit pages, a lot of readers back click.

However, as far as longer works go, those who are willing to read them at all are less likely to be concerned about the page numbers at the bottom. They're looking for something with more meat on the bone anyway. If your story is more developed, with less emphasis on sex, longer isn't necessarily a deterrant. You'll lose some readers beyond those looking for quick stroke fare, but probably not a huge number.

You also have to consider that it's difficult to walk away from a seven Lit page story and come back to find your place. For this reason, there are a fair number of people who prefer chapters in shorter bites, so there's an easier stopping point if they have to run to the supermarket or empty the dryer.

From an author standpoint, ignoring the possibility that the story isn't complete, every time your name appears on the New Story list ( the primary driver of exposure and readership growth ) you have a chance to attract new eyes with your title and tagline.

In the end, it's a matter of what you're aiming for. To maximize exposure, try to keep it to 3 Lit Page chapters ( about 10k words ), have the story complete before you start posting, and post on a regular schedule. ( Probably no more than a week between chapters )

If you just can't be hassled with that, post it all in one chunk. Your readership will be reduced, but most of the people who actually make it to the end tend to vote high, thereby increasing your exposure to the segment of readers willing to read a long story.

 

[chasten]

The author's side may not have been your focus, but it is the driving force on any story. If the author writes it they can post it, no matter the length. If they don't write it, there's nothing there, if you see what I mean. So I think stories getting posted in installments has more to do with the writer than the reader.

Yes. I just meant that I, personally, would probably finish the story before posting anything anyway just in case there was something that had to be adjusted for consistency in the earlier part. Just the way I am. This all came about because I was trying a story I had originally thought would be about 9,000 words and it's coming in more like 17,000.

 

[chasten]

If your story is more developed, with less emphasis on sex, longer isn't necessarily a deterrant.

That is actually the case in this particularly instance. Which...of course...is a whole 'nother discussion point--how much sex is "necessary" in a story on a site dedicated to erotica--but not one for this thread.

so there's an easier stopping point if they have to run to the supermarket or empty the dryer.

Excellent point I had never considered.

From an author standpoint, ignoring the possibility that the story isn't complete, every time your name appears on the New Story list ( the primary driver of exposure and readership growth ) you have a chance to attract new eyes with your title and tagline.

I'm not entirely sure of my own feelings on that subject.

In the end, it's a matter of what you're aiming for. To maximize exposure, try to keep it to 3 Lit Page chapters ( about 10k words ), have the story complete before you start posting, and post on a regular schedule. ( Probably no more than a week between chapters )

If you just can't be hassled with that, post it all in one chunk. Your readership will be reduced, but most of the people who actually make it to the end tend to vote high, thereby increasing your exposure to the segment of readers willing to read a long story.

Good advice both ways. Thanks.

 

[Darkniciad]

I have a pretty fair range. I have numerous one-shot stories of 5-7 Lit pages long and a lot of one-shots in the 3 page range. There are also a few in the 1-2 page range.

I have multi-chapter stories posted in lengths varying from 2-7 Lit pages per chapter ( one of them is over 500k words in total ) as well.

All that tells me that the bulk of the readership is looking for quick, sex-heavy stories with just enough development to get invested in the characters, making the sex scenes come across hotter. The want something to get their rocks off to.

When it comes to multi-part, chapters that don't take up at least half of the second page tend to draw complaints that they're too short. Chapters of more than 3 Lit pages drop a lot in readership and engagement.

Daily releases ( submit all chapters at the same time, and Laurel sets them up to approve 1 per day in sequence ) aren't as good for exposure as well timed weekly releases ( aim for Thursday night )

http://www.darkniciad.com/hotlink_pics/All_3_Names_quickfix.htm

That's my most recent quarterly track, which includes release dates, word count, category, whether it was entered in a themed contest ( increased exposure from the contest page and top billing on the New list ) and all relevant stats to see how they performed.

Looking at my stories as Reject Reality is very telling about where the bulk of the readership is. Every single stat is far higher in that name other than score, because all the stories are sex-heavy, 3 Lit pages or less. They tend to score lower because more people read them, and that increases the number of 4s you'll pick up.

I also kept this pen name secret for a couple of years, in order to keep the data clean and disconnected from name recognition beyond what it generated on its own.

 

[soflabbwlvr]

I prefer to read stories that are three pages or less. Part of it is time constraints, part is due to the formatting of Lit pages. That long, long, long page looks like so much more than it really is.

As a result, I try to keep my submissions to around 3 pages. I hate to ask more of my readers than I am willing to give to other authors. As a result, I generally write the entire story first, then break it into chapters once it is complete. I look for natural breaks that form complete sections of the story. Sometimes they occur after two pages, sometimes four. I work with what I've got.

Some of my stand-alone stories are four or five pages in length. In those cases, there was no convenient place to break, so I posted it all at once despite my preference to keep it three or less.

 

[JackLuis]

I agree with the 1-3 page target. I write a lot of chaptered stories, because I'm Irish my wife says. Don't know when to end the tail, she says.


I usually put sex in all chapters, so the readers are satisfied, but then there is another woman, or situation that calls for MORE, MORE!

But, I'm learning.

Personally I like "My New Best Friend" the best of all my writing, so far and it's only 1 page!

I read "Rhythm and the Blue Line", by PennLady, and learned a good bit about pacing a Romance. to PennLady.

 

[PennLady]

I agree with the 1-3 page target. I write a lot of chaptered stories, because I'm Irish my wife says. Don't know when to end the tail, she says.

I usually put sex in all chapters, so the readers are satisfied, but then there is another woman, or situation that calls for MORE, MORE!

But, I'm learning.

Personally I like "My New Best Friend" the best of all my writing, so far and it's only 1 page!

I read "Rhythm and the Blue Line", by PennLady, and learned a good bit about pacing a Romance. to PennLady.

LOL Thank you, Jack. That's great to hear. I'm glad you enjoyed it.

See, now I've never felt pressured to put sex in every chapter. Maybe it's b/c I write romance, and readers there seem to care as much about the emotional as the physical. Or maybe it's just not so important to me, I don't know. I do think you can get away with that in some categories and not others.

 

[Weird Harold]

I'm curious why authors write their stories in chapters.

Another point to consider:

Posting in one chunk puts your story on the NEW list for seven days; on page one of the new list for maybe one day. That gives potential readers one chance to find your story.

Posting on a regular schedule keeps a new chapter of your story on the NEW list; as long as you post once a week or more often. That gives potential readers much more time to find your story and backtrack to chapter one if they find your story interesting.

 

[D_Lynn]

I'm curious why authors write their stories in chapters. This is not a rant that people do it...I've done it myself...it's more a question of why.

On the surface, it seems unnecessary. I mean, usually we're talking about stories of novelette to novella length which, in the rest of the world, are rarely chaptered.

Is it because that's the way the author writes--i.e., write a scene, want to get it posted while they figure out what they want to say next?

Or, is there some empirical evidence that readers here prefer the short 2-3 page blocks?

Does anyone have any thoughts?

I've done both. I've had success with both methods, but I prefer the all-in-one approach. When I did post a story in chapters, I posted all the chapters at once so they came out in consecutive days.

I'm about to post a story that will be about 8 Lit pages, maybe more due to excessive dialogue. It is actually 6 chapters with a short Prologue and Epilogue, so I could go either way on this one.

I perused the stories in the Hall of Fame of the category I'm submitting in (LW ). The length of stories that are NOT single chapters are all over 8 pages long. The individual chapters are 3-5 pages long. This audience seems to like longer stories, so I'm going to use that as my guide and submit it all in one story.

Some of my decision and bias have to do with my writing goals. I use Lit as a means for experimenting and practicing my skills to become a better novelist. I don't get a great feel for how I'm doing with feedback from a single chapter. Other writers here let the feedback drive the direction of the story, and yet others use that feedback as a means of motivation (as PL suggested.)

My only piece of solid advice in this area is that if you do submit in chapters, don't wait very long between them. Readers are not patient. They will forget about your story and move onto the next shiny object.

 

[D_Lynn]

Readers are not patient. They will forget about your story and move onto the next shiny object.

And before I get lambasted on that statement by the B&W group out there, I'm not implying that ALL readers are impatient, I'm simply stating that the majority of readers of short fiction do not wait long periods of time for a continuation of a story. There are exceptions to this, of course.

 

[Goldeniangel]

I'm constantly writing in chapters. I do it for a variety of reasons, one of which is definitely that I prefer to read stories that are about 3 Lit pages long or shorter and so that's what I try to put out there for others for the most part. I also do it because otherwise I could write for three months without actually having anything to post.

But the biggest reason I do it is reader feedback. I will often get insights into characters from readers, suggestions for plot points, etc. that I would have never thought of on my own. The overall story arch of my longer stories is constantly changing due to reader feedback and I tend to think it makes for a better story in the long run. Also makes it more fun/challenging for me =)

 

[BONNIEBREA]

I've never begun to post a story that wasn't finished, and I've never written a story that didn't have chapters.

Some of it has to do with the disconnect between what in the paper publishing world is a 'novelette', a 'novella', a 'novel', or a 'short story'. The lengths that qualify for those length designations always seem to be much shorter in e-publishing than paper publishing.

I've only written one of what I'd consider a 'novel' (about 140K words). But in e-publishing that's considered some sort of 'epic novel' or 'mega-novel'. But to me that length is really more something that would translate into a paper novel of roughly 350 pages - fairly average length.

But I couldn't imagine writing something that long without giving the reader the break that chapter endings provide.

Even in the shorter 'novelette' (e-publishing) or 'short story' (paper publishing) form (I have one story that would qualify at that length - it's about 12K words) I couldn't image just trying to present it as one long, unbroken narrative. I'd expect readers to rebel and complain, and I think they would be justified in doing so. That 12K story is in five chapters.

There's also the consideration that when I started publishing it was here a few years ago. I've always finished stories before beginning to submit them (and I really can't imagine how authors can do otherwise - it seems to me to be a basic of writing to know what story you intend to tell. There may be some hitches in the writing process, but going on for years without a clue as to what the end of your tale is is just foreign to me). I've always sent in chapters as separate submissions, submitting the next when the former is posted. So there's a few days between each chapter. I like drawing out, at least a little, the posting of the complete story. And that method allows a great opportunity to cook up cliff-hanger chapter endings (although the danger of having too many chapters in this 'erotica' genre end with 'OK, strip!" is a constant danger).

 

[Bramblethorn]

There's also the consideration that when I started publishing it was here a few years ago. I've always finished stories before beginning to submit them (and I really can't imagine how authors can do otherwise - it seems to me to be a basic of writing to know what story you intend to tell. There may be some hitches in the writing process, but going on for years without a clue as to what the end of your tale is is just foreign to me).

There are a lot of other options in between "finished" and "without a clue how it's going to end", though.

I've been writing and posting a multi-part story for almost a year now. I only finish chapter a week or two before I submit it, but I planned out the skeleton of the entire story from the start* - I've filled it out and occasionally changed things along the way, but I know where it's going and how it ends.

Doing it that way helps keep me motivated. If I tried writing the whole thing before posting anything, I'd probably run out of steam halfway through, but it's harder to get lazy when I've already committed to readers.

*Well, almost - it started out as a one-shot, and then I decided it'd be interesting to see what happens afterwards. So from the start of Chapter 2.

 

[BONNIEBREA]

There are a lot of other options in between "finished" and "without a clue how it's going to end", though.

I've been writing and posting a multi-part story for almost a year now. I only finish chapter a week or two before I submit it, but I planned out the skeleton of the entire story from the start* - I've filled it out and occasionally changed things along the way, but I know where it's going and how it ends.

Doing it that way helps keep me motivated. If I tried writing the whole thing before posting anything, I'd probably run out of steam halfway through, but it's harder to get lazy when I've already committed to readers.

*Well, almost - it started out as a one-shot, and then I decided it'd be interesting to see what happens afterwards. So from the start of Chapter 2.

I think it's still better to bring the story to completion before beginning to release it.

But I also think it's admirable that you are committed to continuing and eventually finishing your story, and are working regularly to that end. And it seems as if your readers can get accustomed to seeing a continuation of the story on a regular basis, and I think that's treating your readers with respect and consideration. A continuation every week or two seems like a healthy and responsible committment to what you're doing.

Mostly what I react to are what seems to be so many contributors here that get readers interested in a story and then just drop it. Readers seem to complain about that pretty regularly here.

 

[andy_charles]

I'm curious why authors write their stories in chapters. This is not a rant that people do it...I've done it myself...it's more a question of why.

On the surface, it seems unnecessary. I mean, usually we're talking about stories of novelette to novella length which, in the rest of the world, are rarely chaptered.

Is it because that's the way the author writes--i.e., write a scene, want to get it posted while they figure out what they want to say next?

Or, is there some empirical evidence that readers here prefer the short 2-3 page blocks?

Does anyone have any thoughts?

I guess, for me, when I'm writing a longer piece of erotica, it's a series of scenes - but the idea for erotica has always got to be story. That's what distances erotica from porno. You need a story to develop the characters which in turn helps to make your writing more erotic and arousing. Therefore, to do that properly, when writing a long piece, it's just easier to have chapters to divide it up for yourself.

 

[TxRad]

When i first came to Lit there were not many chaptered stories. Then a few years later, a couple of erotic sites shut down or one of them got shut down. In any case, the writers on both those sites wrote chapters and when they came here they did the same. Since then it has been nothing but chapters.

To me a chapter is a part of a story, not the whole story. I've done a couple of chaptered stories but I really don't care for it. You sell a book, not the chapters one at a time. stories here should be the same and treated as a whole not as a chapter.

To tell the truth, I don't think they should even get a score until the whole thing is posted. Then the chapters can be averaged to give the story as a whole it's rating.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I think it's still better to bring the story to completion before beginning to release it.

If it was feasible for me, I'd want to do that - not least because I get to a certain point and find myself wanting to retcon earlier sections. Unfortunately I have several half-finished works on my hard drive testifying to my inability to work that way :-/

It doesn't help that I'm a slow writer; a chapter a month (3 Lit pages) is about my top speed. My current story is shaping up to be about 13 chapters, so that's a year's work, and it's really hard making that sort of commitment with no payoff until the very end - I don't do well with delayed gratification!

But I also think it's admirable that you are committed to continuing and eventually finishing your story, and are working regularly to that end. And it seems as if your readers can get accustomed to seeing a continuation of the story on a regular basis, and I think that's treating your readers with respect and consideration. A continuation every week or two seems like a healthy and responsible committment to what you're doing.

Well, every week or six... but at least I manage to be reasonably regular. And making readers wait a little isn't necessarily a bad thing!

 

[Lien_Geller]

An autobiographical adventure in finding out why size matters.

I started writing for lit doing smaller 1-4 page chapters on my first story, Aphrodisia. I did this because I was very new and I was basically doodling. I didn't think anyone would really like my stuff and I didn't want to invest a massive amount of time in something other people would find mediocre. I know a lot of people say "I write stories for me and me alone," and that's absolutely fine. I don't. I write stories to share them with other people. I don't need to write them down to enjoy them by myself. They just play themselves out in my imagination as fun little distractions whilst I should probably be concentrating on more important stuff. The act of writing, for me, is solely about sharing my work with others.

So, my first chapter was a 2 page long little mess that I was far too eager for people to see. I was a little surprised to find that people seemed to really like it. It steadied on to a 4.50 rating and stayed there. So I kept going. I wrote a chapter at a time and savoured every comment of feedback I could get.

Then I took a break from Aphrodisia and wrote The Defiled Temple almost all at once before posting up the chapters. This worked a hell of a lot better as I wasn't making people wait months for the next instalment.

Shortly after TDT, I wrote the first chapter of The Missing Dragon at a whopping (for me at the time) 8 lit pages in length. I posted it up all at once because at the time I was writing at high velocity (those were the days). In retrospect I'm really glad I did post it up all at once because it shot up to the top of the Sci-Fi/Fantasy list and I think the all time highest rated list for a few days before it evened out to an average 4.90 score that it stayed at for most of the rest of the year before dropping to its curren 4.85.

As a result, I was so freakin' glad that I didn't cut it down into smaller chapters. Why?

The top lists.

I love Lit's top lists. I like having one for every category. They're my first port of call in finding something good to read on the site. Now, look at the top lists in the Nonhuman and Sci-Fi/Fantasy categories. In the top twenty for NonHuman, 8 of the places are taken up by 2 stories. Now, I'm in no way having a go at the author's of these stories. Chaptering your writing is completely fine by me. I just can't help but think that those are 2 stories. So there's probably 6 stories out there that have been pushed off the top because of smaller chapters. DoctorWolf's A Slave to the Servants takes up a whopping 8 places all by itself in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy category top list.

Now this is no one's fault and I'm pretty damn sure I'm not going to criticise author's like DoctorWolf for writing awesome stuff that lots of people want to read. Plus, her chapters are also impressively fucking massive. With that said, it is something I take to mind in my own work. My past 5 stories have all reached past the 4.85 mark and I know I'm capable, if pleasantly surprised, that I can write something that gains a 4.90 rating. So I write longer chapters instead of breaking them down in order to try not to stomp out other author's from the top lists with lots of high rated smaller chapters.

Now I know there are other factors like longer chapters usually get rated higher because only people that like them stay to the end, but I think that's countered by smaller chapters getting higher ratings as the story progresses because people don't bother to read something they didn't like for the first 5 instalments.

Finally, in all honesty I'm one of those people who prefers longer tales to shorter ones. When I open up a Lit story I prefer at least 5 pages because I read quite quickly and 1-2 pages will barely keep me occupied for half an hour.

So that's why the chapters for my stories tend to be longer. I don't want to clog up the system. ;o)

Again, not saying this to be mean to anyone, just giving food for thought and a shared experience. Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go and deflate my head.

 

[Blind_Justice]

In my case, it's more a matter of practicality than anything else. I'm writing from first-person view most of the time, writing in chapters allows for easy POV switches. So far, I've tried to keep each chapter to one protagonist, and it works fine so far. The only problem I'm fighting is my rather inconsistent chapter length. On average, I end up with about 2-3 Lit pages, but Chapter 4 has only one, while #5 will have a whoppin' 5.