Changing Limits

[shy slave]

This thread has been prompted by Etoiles thread 'Switching for Service' and a discussion I had there with Catalina.

I have tried to look back at my first post on Lit but I can't find it ~ the search only goes back 20 pages.

When I first joined Lit I had very limited BDSM experience, I am guessing that showed in my posts.
I was also shy about admitting I had an interest in BDSM and D/s

I had so many limits, some were thinks I just could not imagine ever wanting to try and some were through bad experiences or real fear.

Many of those have moved or changed in some way.

Recently I was walking through Stockholm thinking non-BDSM things when I suddenly realised I was heading for 40 years old and I still had hang-ups about things I did not want to hang onto any longer.

I am terrified of blindfolds and never really enjoyed anything anal.

I now want those limits moved to the point of 'not an issue.'

Other limits that have moved are my pain tolerance, the idea of being shared with others (yet to actually happen, but I am at least thinking about it as a possibility) & the level of submission I can mentally go to.
There are probably others but I would have to re-read many threads to find out where I was at last year.

Whether your a PYL or a pyl What bounderies or limits have you moved and what limits rate under NEVER EVER TO MOVE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

If your a PYL has a pyl ever encouraged you to go further than you have previously and what was the outcome of doing so.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

What bounderies or limits have you moved and what limits rate under NEVER EVER TO MOVE UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

Mine remain nebulous, save death. i've not discovered the power to raise the dead as of yet, and i've got an issue with irreversible actions in the known universe.

If you're a PYL, has a pyl ever encouraged you to go further than you have previously and what was the outcome of doing so.

Lack of play for a while.

 

[shy slave]

Mine remain nebulous, save death. i've not discovered the power to raise the dead as of yet, and i've got an issue with irreversible actions in the known universe.Lack of play for a while.

Thanks for the response

and the spell check.

 

[Private_Label]

Shy, I can't say which of my limits may never move. I do know that I am a control freak about myself and there will be things that no matter how much I want to move, will not move (I would not go through with body modification to please someone, nor personality modification - I like who I am far too much).

As for the blindfolds, there is probably a past experience that has generated the dislike for them. It would be better to figure the why's first than force yourself to enjoy something that bothers you that much.

I can't say anything about the anal, because I have yet to experience it - I plan on being open to trying it at least once. After that it depends on how the first time or two goes.

 

[shy slave]

Shy, I can't say which of my limits may never move. I do know that I am a control freak about myself and there will be things that no matter how much I want to move, will not move (I would not go through with body modification to please someone, nor personality modification - I like who I am far too much).

As for the blindfolds, there is probably a past experience that has generated the dislike for them. It would be better to figure the why's first than force yourself to enjoy something that bothers you that much.

I can't say anything about the anal, because I have yet to experience it - I plan on being open to trying it at least once. After that it depends on how the first time or two goes.

PL I have thought over and over agin about what makes me terified of blindfolds but I have never knowingly or remember a bad experience with them.

I used to hate not being able to see someones face but that is an issue long gone, prior to finding D/s.

I just hate hoods, blindfolds or anything or that nature regardless of who is wearing it.

 

[graceanne]

Well, I've found that if K really really pushes that limits will fall. For instance I would have thought that I would be totally against cutting, but K wants to. So we're waiting for me to be at the top swing of my health, and a night off. It's a good thing that my major ones are shared by him, due to religion.

 

[Private_Label]

PL I have thought over and over agin about what makes me terified of blindfolds but I have never knowingly or remember a bad experience with them.

I used to hate not being able to see someones face but that is an issue long gone, prior to finding D/s.

I just hate hoods, blindfolds or anything or that nature regardless of who is wearing it.

It could just be a form of claustrophobia ... I don't want to wear hoods either. I'm a bit of a clutz, have one ankle that given the slightest uneveness will sprain itself, so walking while blindfolded is not something I would do happily.

I am also not normally scared of heights of any kind, but I am afraid to get near the edge of a cliff if there is no railing (even if it is not that far a drop, even if there is no chance of my accidently falling over), and I hated the folding metal beachers my HS gym had because there was no railing and I was always afraid I would pitch head first down the steps.... Once I had to sit about 3/4 of the way to the top (I was in the choir and had to sit there) after the event I had to wait until everyone else was off the bleachers and make my way down slowly, stepping between the seat instead of just walking down the seats...

 

[bronntanas]

Suspension bondage was a hard limit for me. It still bugs me a bit, which is why my Lady enjoys the snot out of it. Fireplay can be awesome to watch, but it's a hard limit that I don't think I'll ever change.

 

[catalina_francisco]

I think it is natural for limits to change over the time of a D/s relationship. Those changes can come about because of a variety of reasons, but to have no change from beginning to forever lends itself to a stagnant relationship with little challenge or interest after the initial rush is over. It also becomes a shifting of limits for both Dominant and sub/slave, as well as the relationship as a whole.

For us there have been several shifts. Things such as face slapping, the terms and conditions under which I am shared, body modification....they have all undergone subtle and not so subtle shifts, some small, others huge. We also deal with issues that might arise which mean a previous thing that was not a limit may have to become one for a period of time. Two such things which we enjoyed before without any problems were blindfolds and bondage. For us, from the first night they were relaxed and enjoyed activities....but that has all changed in the last year, and totally unexpected and without warning. All I can put it down to is subconscious linking to my father's suicide....the mere thought of ropes can see me hyperventilating on the wrong day now, ad blindfolds can see me hysterical and totally out of control. It is something we are working on slowly and found pushing hard moved me in the opposite direction to where we wanted to go. Other things respond better with hard pushing.

I also think the pushing of limits and moving forward does require an open mind and a mindset which accepts change. It is easy to get bogged into a vision of how the D/s relationship is viewed by others as well as yourselves, how it fits with the stereotypical images which often bear little resemblance to a real D/s relationship with real people and real issues. It sometimes requires a huge mind shift to contemplate change and how those proposed changes will change that previous model, what that will mean, whether there will be negatives and how to deal with them, and whether you are able to remain authentic to your original ideal....that is when you begin to realise the original ideal was just a starting point from which to build, but which can maintain it's authenticity throughout the changes and growth. It makes for an interesting journey where growth in various ways occurs for both/all involved.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

I think it is natural for limits to change over the time of a D/s relationship.

Well said.

We also deal with issues that might arise which mean a previous thing that was not a limit may have to become one for a period of time.

Glad you brought this forward. i seldom see anyone speak of (for want of a better word) regression.

Out of curiosity, since i think shy brought it up to start, does the loss of a sense from the blindfold bring on your reaction, or is it that someone actually takes something away from you??

 

[catalina_francisco]

Well said.Glad you brought this forward. i seldom see anyone speak of (for want of a better word) regression.

Out of curiosity, since i think shy brought it up to start, does the loss of a sense from the blindfold bring on your reaction, or is it that someone actually takes something away from you??

Not sure if you are asking me or shy about the blindfold thing but if me, I have no idea where it came from and certainly surprised the socks off both of us after doing it for so long without a prob. I can see the bondage issue being related to my father in some twisted subconscious way, but the blindfold just has me stumped. Even with the bondage thing it is strange when you think I grew up around my father's ropes from his farming days, loving the feel and smell of them, seeing them everytime I went to the garage area.....and then one act rules all those years of warm memory out and becomes an issue. Thankfully both areas are improving.

Catalina

 

[AngelicAssassin]

Thankfully both areas are improving.

Glad to hear it. Wait a sec ...

surprised the socks off both of us ...

you ... with socks on? i think you found a limit for me.

 

[Netzach]

My limits are perpetually in flux. And yes, there are new ones added, others subtracted. Different days, different limits.

I don't consider many things fixed and permanent. Like AA I will always try and avoid death as an outcome of my scenes. I also believe that people should be left better off than I found them, however brutal and hard I might play with them, so I want the results to be joyful, or cathartic, or educational in some fashion. I try for that and try not to do the opposite.

 

[jasonlf]

Something that changed with me was a desire to show off... before, with me, I was ridiculous about it -- I freaked when my ex wanted to show a bare-ass photo... now, the idea of showing off my girl turns me on. I GUESS that's kinda a broken limit, or maybe just maturity.

 

[graceanne]

Malcah was telling me that her master has her fill out a BDSM checklist every six months, cause her limits change that often.

 

[Netzach]

Malcah was telling me that her master has her fill out a BDSM checklist every six months, cause her limits change that often.

I like doing them frequently for that reason too, also they often get us in the mood to do something new or something we've forgotten about.

 

[Tollo]

Recently I was walking through Stockholm thinking non-BDSM things when I suddenly realised I was heading for 40 years old and I still had hang-ups about things I did not want to hang onto any longer.

I am terrified of blindfolds and never really enjoyed anything anal.

I now want those limits moved to the point of 'not an issue.'

Awareness of an issue and a desire to change are half the battle. It seems to me that you are well on your way to reaching your goal. It probably does not even need to be said, but taking things slowly, keeping yourself open to the experience as it happens, not getting hung up on expectations about how you should or should not respond, these are all key to working through an inhibition.

Would you be able to keep your eyes shut for a short period of time, if ordered? Could you accept a blindfold, if told that you were free to remove it as soon as (or before) your comfort levels were crossed? What about trying a blindfold in a context that is less threatening for you, perhaps while sitting and listening to music?

I guess you get the point: be patient: find ways to gradually "desensitize" (I hate that word) yourself and gradually progress to wards your goal. Again, the desire to change is the sine qua non for change to happen. Since you have this, the rest may not be easy, but it certainly is doable.

Coming from the Dom side of the equation, "limits" are not something I personally feel that I have to worry about. I am sure that I would have many limits as a sub (scat for one) but since I get to call the shots, I don't have to worry about MY limits per se.

As to the outcome of pushing A.'s limits, when she has expressed feeling particularly "open" to trying new things, the results have been mixed. Too little communication (from her) and too much enthusiasm (from me) has almost always led to a bad experience. On the other hand, there have been times when it worked out. As an example, like you, anal has always been a limit for A.. A couple of months ago, however, out of the blue, A. told me that she wanted to give it a go. I was surprised (in a good way) and said "sure". We took it very slow with lots of communication (and lube) and we did it. Did she get off on it ? No. Did she find it uncomfortable? Yes. Has she wanted to try again? No, or at least she has not said so. Was it a good experience? Absolutely! Because we shared the experience without inflated expectations, the outcome became less important. I look back on it now as having been a moment of trust between us and of strength in A., something I will always be proud of her for.

I hope this helps. Good luck,

Tollo

 

[shy slave]

Awareness of an issue and a desire to change are half the battle. It seems to me that you are well on your way to reaching your goal. It probably does not even need to be said, but taking things slowly, keeping yourself open to the experience as it happens, not getting hung up on expectations about how you should or should not respond, these are all key to working through an inhibition.

Would you be able to keep your eyes shut for a short period of time, if ordered? Could you accept a blindfold, if told that you were free to remove it as soon as (or before) your comfort levels were crossed? What about trying a blindfold in a context that is less threatening for you, perhaps while sitting and listening to music?

I guess you get the point: be patient: find ways to gradually "desensitize" (I hate that word) yourself and gradually progress to wards your goal. Again, the desire to change is the sine qua non for change to happen. Since you have this, the rest may not be easy, but it certainly is doable.

Coming from the Dom side of the equation, "limits" are not something I personally feel that I have to worry about. I am sure that I would have many limits as a sub (scat for one) but since I get to call the shots, I don't have to worry about MY limits per se.

As to the outcome of pushing A.'s limits, when she has expressed feeling particularly "open" to trying new things, the results have been mixed. Too little communication (from her) and too much enthusiasm (from me) has almost always led to a bad experience. On the other hand, there have been times when it worked out. As an example, like you, anal has always been a limit for A.. A couple of months ago, however, out of the blue, A. told me that she wanted to give it a go. I was surprised (in a good way) and said "sure". We took it very slow with lots of communication (and lube) and we did it. Did she get off on it ? No. Did she find it uncomfortable? Yes. Has she wanted to try again? No, or at least she has not said so. Was it a good experience? Absolutely! Because we shared the experience without inflated expectations, the outcome became less important. I look back on it now as having been a moment of trust between us and of strength in A., something I will always be proud of her for.

I hope this helps. Good luck,

Tollo

Thanks for this Tollo.

Unfortunately I am short of patience, once I decide I want something to happen its difficult for me to go back on that.

I disliked the first time we had anal, he offered to stop as I was clearly NOT having a good time, but it was me who wanted to carry on, through clendhed teeth and will power I would not be defeated.

Not really submissive behaviour, but the next time was better and I felt better knowing I had achieved something he enjoyed.

Being so stubborn and making myself go all the way through the process means I have overcome a limit and can conentrate on learning to relax and enjoy it.

To answer AA and you about blindfolds:
I do shut my eyes at times but this is my choice, he often asks me to open them in order to look at him.

Quote:
Out of curiosity, since i think shy brought it up to start, does the loss of a sense from the blindfold bring on your reaction, or is it that someone actually takes something away from you??

I think its a mix of the complete loss of power to choose whether I can see him or not.
Masks on any person scare me, the local video store has a masked gunman at the door, its taken several months for me to go in there becuase of it

This limit annoys me, I don't want to have it and I will make it disappear.

The thought of the loss of that sense brings on the reaction yet closing my eyes does not. I can't explain how terrified I become at the idea of not being able to see him.

I am scared for so many reasons, none of which have any grounding in actuality or have ever happened to me.
For example if I were blindfolded would he leave me not knowing what would happen next or where he was. or would he introduce a third person without my knowledge.
This reasonings are irrational and make no sense. I know that Andante would not do these things, nor has anyone in the past done or suggested that they may occur.

I find it ironic that many vanilla couples play with blindfolds as a begining into BDSM, yet had my first experience been blindfolds it would have probably been my last.

 

[shy slave]

My limits are perpetually in flux. And yes, there are new ones added, others subtracted. Different days, different limits.

I don't consider many things fixed and permanent. Like AA I will always try and avoid death as an outcome of my scenes. I also believe that people should be left better off than I found them, however brutal and hard I might play with them, so I want the results to be joyful, or cathartic, or educational in some fashion. I try for that and try not to do the opposite.

Thanks Net,

I like the idea that nothing is fixed and that people should gain from whatever has happened when they have been with you.

Sometimes its important to be pushed further out of the comfort zone than would be personal choice and sometimes its fun to re-visit places that have not happened for a while.

I guess it can depend greatly on your and their mood as to what occurs.

Gaining from the experience outside of the sexual relief is something I feel is important to help both people grow as individuals.

 

[shy slave]

Mine remain nebulous, save death. i've not discovered the power to raise the dead as of yet, and i've got an issue with irreversible actions in the known universe.Lack of play for a while.

AA What has prompted the 'lack of play' following a time that has pushed your limits?

 

[lettinggo]

I'm brand new at this and my limits have already changed as my fear of the unknown subsides. My PYL is all about pushing my limits and knows I'm interested in the same. When we started, blindfolds and hoods were out. I could easily keep my eyes closed for as long as I was told, but needed the security of having it within my control. Now that I've started to relax, hoods have become a regular part of play. He knows I have an intense fear of the dark, and has promised to never be more than a couple feet away. I also trust him to remove it *immediately* if I feel the need to safeword.

I had also set a limit of no marks and no blood (which is a shame, but necessary). It hadn't occurred to me to be more specific and my very first scene began with a 10 inch knife. I was terrified and have enjoyed overcoming my fear of knife play.

Now he's been taunting me with the idea of needles. They've been a limit since the beginning, but I have no doubt that he'll talk me into a trial run and push me beyond that limit, too.

I've done the checklist, before we started and again a few weeks later. It's interesting to see how drastically my likes and dislikes change as I experience new things.

 

[AngelicAssassin]

AA What has prompted the 'lack of play' following a time that has pushed your limits?

My partner's physical recovery so we could play again, or her mental/emotional adjustments to get over the results of my having no problem going beyond a limit i'd set in place originally to protect her.

 

[Ms_Lilith]

When I began, I was strictly submissive.

Over the last three years or so, I've developed a rather delicious Domme side as well. So any problems I had with inflicting pain, taking control, etc, are gone. I sometimes DO have trouble switching with my Partner, who is also switch, as I tend to be mostly submissive to Him, but we talk, and manage.

As to more specific things: I wouldn't do any watersports when I began, and now he and I have done that, and decided it's not much for us, so it's been put on the punishment shelf. Something unpleasant that I may have to endure if I misbehave TOO badly.

I wouldn't allow someone to cum on my face (various psychological reasons), and now I'm at a point with him, and in my fantasies of others, that I can enjoy the concept of being marked in such a way.

Blindfolds and masks.. are still on my hard limits. However, someone recently suggested to me the idea of a see-through blindfold.. something that masks your vision, but doesn't cut it off altogether. I think I could live with that. Masks will never be okay with me, as I am highly claustrophobic, and it would induce panic attacks.

Other than that, it's hard to know what limits have changed, unless I look back at an early checklist I did. I've grown so much in these areas, it's difficult to figure out what I once was, y'know?

 

[shy slave]

My partner's physical recovery so we could play again, or her mental/emotional adjustments to get over the results of my having no problem going beyond a limit i'd set in place originally to protect her.

I have read enough of your posts to surmise you would not have moved the limits unless you thought it was the right thing to do at the time.

Nor do i believe for one second that whatever you did was not thought through fully and she was protected by you at all times.
xx

 

[shy slave]

When I began, I was strictly submissive.

Over the last three years or so, I've developed a rather delicious Domme side as well. So any problems I had with inflicting pain, taking control, etc, are gone. I sometimes DO have trouble switching with my Partner, who is also switch, as I tend to be mostly submissive to Him, but we talk, and manage.

As to more specific things: I wouldn't do any watersports when I began, and now he and I have done that, and decided it's not much for us, so it's been put on the punishment shelf. Something unpleasant that I may have to endure if I misbehave TOO badly.

I wouldn't allow someone to cum on my face (various psychological reasons), and now I'm at a point with him, and in my fantasies of others, that I can enjoy the concept of being marked in such a way.

Blindfolds and masks.. are still on my hard limits. However, someone recently suggested to me the idea of a see-through blindfold.. something that masks your vision, but doesn't cut it off altogether. I think I could live with that. Masks will never be okay with me, as I am highly claustrophobic, and it would induce panic attacks.

Other than that, it's hard to know what limits have changed, unless I look back at an early checklist I did. I've grown so much in these areas, it's difficult to figure out what I once was, y'know?

I know what you mean about figuring what you once were, its never as clear as you thought it would be.

I like the idea of a see-through blindfold, do you know where to get one.

I am equally gald that I am not alone on the blindfold issue