Challenge for the story writers on the board

[KillerMuffin]

Hey, someone has to take up the torch!

It's a very simple exercise really. It will help you learn about your own writing as well.

Read this story:

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=22558

Then close that window and come back here and answer these three questions without looking back at the story. You don't have to give long involved answers. This is not a critique session.

What did you like about the story?
What did you not like about the story?
Is there a particular reason why?

Additionally, please don't ask to have your own story done next, this isn't feedback about writing. It's feedback about reading.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Ok... I'll give it a shot...

What did you like about the story?
It had a good premise I thought.

What did you not like about the story?
Characters where not developed. Story was not developed enough for it to be believeable. Sex was very tame and pretty much predictable. There was alot of telling and not showing. I'm trying to remember if there was dialogue, but I don't think there was.

Is there a particular reason why? Overall I didn't really like it. I just couldn't get into the story. It was over and done with before I could even relate to it. I didn't feel any flow to the story. Why did she suddenly kiss him? I think the story definitely had promise. Two work out partners going at it at night in the park... oh yeah.


Is that along the lines of what you meant Muffster?

- PBW

 

[KillerMuffin]

That's exactly it. When you learn to read a story to see what works for you and what doesn't work for you, you learn to write a story that works better.

You learn to write by reading.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Your right... I guess I need to take the time to read the stories on here from that viewpoint and actually think about the story... and not uhmm... nevermind... lol

- PBW

 

[Ray Dario]

Challange

Okay KM here goes. I hope I get something from it.

What did you like about the story?

Not very much. Okay okay, I'll try harder. It was short. But I only liked that because I didn't like the story.


What did you not like about the story?

Wrong word usage. Poor grammer. Running the dialog into the other paragraphs. Weak plot. Weak characters. Weak sex.


Is there a particular reason why?

Wrong word usage. When I read a story and see the word "it"
where "is" should be for example it pops me right out of the story. Usually I leave the story right then and there. Now that I have realized this, I am going to be extra carefull about those kinds of mechanical errors.

Poor grammer. I always knew poor grammer disrupted the flow of the story, but I never thought about it being this bad. See above.

Running the dialog into other paragraphs. (Pet Peave)

Weak plot. Okay, I know this is a sex story but still take the time to develop a plot. This story didn't go anywhere or do anything. Just two people screwing in the dark.

Weak characters. Once again, I know this is a sex story, but I still like to know a little more about the people.

Weak sex. Okay, this is a sex story, so make the sex good!

Well KM; Thanks for doing this thread. I think you are right. I think by taking the time to do this I may have learned something about my own writing. Looking back over some of my stories, I see the very same things I didn't like about this one. Now to see if I can write so that I don't have those problems any more.

Ray

 

[Savage Kitten]

What did you like about the story?
I liked the general theme of the story, its locale.

What did you not like about the story?
the writer really didn't take time to build a plot. The scenes were broken, not complete. The story is not believable.

Is there a particular reason why?
the story usually has to draw me in within the first few lines or my mind starts to wander. as I read a story I visualize the scene in my head. this story jumped around so much it was like watching a slide show.

It wasn't until the third paragraph that I figured out this was a man and a woman thing.

 

[TheDR4KE]

What did you like about the story?

I liked the female characters' shape from his description, and also the feel of impulsive physical action.

What did you not like about the story?
Is there a particular reason why?

The male character left me completely cold. There was nothing...
And the continuity issue of him suddenly not being clothed, or at least having his cock out so he could fuck her.
Hmm ... really the sex too was a bit too boring.

 

[RisiaSkye]

1) Not a bad idea, could have been an interesting read.

2) Bad grammar, little editing, arbitrary paragraph breaks, no character development, completely tedious sex, no resolution.

3) See above.

I think with significantly more work, this could have been a really solid story. There were moments when it almost got better--such as the narrator's "reality check" moment. Overall, though, it read like a Forum letter; this is not a compliment.

 

[P. B. Walker]

Overall, though, it read like a Forum letter; this is not a compliment.

LOL... I snorted diet coke outta my nose reading that last line.

- PBW

 

[KillerMuffin]

All right, try this one on for size http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=10408

What did you like about it?
What did you not like about it?
Why?

Remember, read it, then close the window before answering.

 

[P. B. Walker]

I checked out Mickie's Goddess of Winter as part of the challenge KillerMuffin made and found it quite interesting.

What did you like about it?
I liked the premise of this story. The story was well written and flowed very well. I liked the imagery that was used to describe regular mundane things. The ending was not what I expected, but I liked it... maybe because it surprised me.

What did you not like about it?
Well it wasn't exactly my "type" of story. But I put that aside. The sex did not particularly arouse me. But that may have been on purpose.

- PBW

 

[Couture]

A walk in the park:
Positive
Elfstone was very descriptive and painted a great picture. It was short, but sweet and if compared to other common stories published here, ranks a bit higher, because it wasn't as cliche' as some of the others.

Needs Improvement
There was no plot. Kind of hard to have one in a story that short anyway.

There was no suspense. Hey, you are in a park getting frisky, you should feel some danger and have some very interesting thoughts going through your head.

I felt the situation could have been explored better. Then, the ending they noticed someone watching, but there seemed to be no point to it.

 

[Couture]

Goddess of Winter
A very well thought out, original, and beautifully written story. Very cerebral . . . too cerebral for me personally.

 

[ksalmond]

my query

my query is why km would use these two examples...

if people have the aspiration to write erotica as opposed to "wanker stories"...

(and most i have talked have tried to get out saying "it's just fantasy, it's not real, it doesn't need a plot, or characters, or anything else like that...)

is that they don't know the difference and ergo: won't make it, they'll wrie a few stories to satisfy an on-line interest that will fade and that will be it...

i tend to be more serious...

there once was a man who said... hell, if i can't scare them, i'll make them puke, and he did...

he's wiser now... and richer...

and Stephen King is not someone i would aspire to as a writer... but...

you can learn from the worst of cooks...

Anais Nin wrote erotica... Tennessee Williams did... many, many other serious writers did as well....

A little known Canadian writer (female) has a story called "The Day I Sat With Jesus on the Sun Deck and a Wind Came Up and Blew My Kimono Open and He Saw My Breasts" (it's a cool story, and quite funny)....

Writing... erotica... art... depends on the level of encounter... let jesus see your tits and see how you deal with it... i'm sure your neighbour can, but really, stretch yourself...

the rest is up to you... good writing... and...

i still like km's stuff... but for a completely different reason...

and i'm keeping that reason a secret...

but if you listen to the audio stories you'll know what i mean : )

 

[KillerMuffin]

I chose those two stories because they were the first short ones that came up on the story spinner that were a little more interesting than junk. They were also ones that a person could form an opinion on. That's all.

The purpose of this exercise it to get someone thinking about what's good writing and what's not. Overuse of ellipses, for example, is pure bad writing. When you learn to recognize what makes good or bad writing, you learn to apply the good to your own writing.

I also believe that there is more of a discernment between erotica and "wanker stories." Erotica isn't an aspiration, it's a genre. Good writing is an aspiration and most of the people who come to this board aspire to writing well. They don't want to be the next Anais Nin, they just want to know what kinds of things to do to improve their writing. Good pornography has just as much value as good erotica.

Most people can learn to write well enough to come up with an engaging story that's fun to read at the very least. It's a combination of mechanics and putting forward a plot and characters that work. Mechanics are easy to learn, style is not. You can't teach style, you learn it on your own through reading and writing. One of the things that beginning writers do is that they don't read a story analytically. Reading analytically is a skill that helps a writer understand the essentials of style. In other words, what works and what doesn't.

This site is for people who enjoy reading and writing sexually explicit text. It's purpose is to give them a place to do it without all of the difficulties mired in professional writing. Some of us are better at it than others. The majority of our writers are just people who want to share sexual fantasies. Some of our writers are professionals just doing something on the side. All of our writers want their stories to be read and liked. That's the aspiration here.

I'm a writer by avocation. It's what I do and it's what I am. I take it more seriously than I ought, no doubt. I'm also one of those writers who loves other writers. I want them to succeed and to feel comfortable with what they write. I want them to learn and I want them to develop that writer's arrogance. I am not an editor. I am not an English major. I am not a publisher. I am not a creative writing professor. I am simply a writer and a reader.

As a writer and a reader, I am fully qualified to pass on what I've learned. Two things that I've heard over and over in this place for two years is can I have feedback and how can I write better? I try to help. Since I am a writer and not any of those other things, I can only pass on what has worked for me and what I've learned about writing. So I do that. As a reader with vast and varied experience, I'm also qualified to give feedback, just like everyone else here.

However, if they don't ask for it, then they don't get it from me. Why? Because offering unasked advice puts people on the defensive. Who in the hell does she think she is to offer me advice? Rather than get into a fight about it, most people prevaricate with a simple it's only fantasy remark. It's a waste of time, breath, and advice. That's not just in writing, either, that's in every aspect of life. I wouldn't care if Stephen King himself did come down from Maine to offer me some advice on how to improve me writing, if I don't ask for it, I don't want it.

It's not about erotica, wankers, art, or genre transcention. It's only about writing itself.

 

[ksalmond]

well...

well, km... (elliptic style in context : )

as a writer by "avocation" you probably do wonders for new writers. i admire your attempts to get them to think... (oh, okay, i'll finish this ellipse) but thinking alone is not really "analysis".

it does seem to be the way tho' (more style, i type for a living and any keystroke i can save when not getting paid helps : )) and after writing professionally for 20 years i find it most in the young/new writers. their project took so much out of them, made them so naked, was so revealing of them, or so they think, that they want to let it go rather than shape it into a good story, that satisfies all the requirements of "story"!

in the long run the problem is that if they don't dig deeper, or even have the desire to do so, or know that that option existed, they will remain "writers by avocation" popping off wanker stories (sometimes 2 or 3 a day i was told by one female lit writer) and wondering why Doubleday isn't knocking on their door yet : ))

i mean they already have a whole bunch of emails telling them how wonderfully they type.

 

[KillerMuffin]

*shrugs*

Okay. I'm wrong. One must do what to improve one's writing?

 

[P. B. Walker]

I'm wondering...

ksalmond, what you, as a professional writer of 20 years, can do to help me move from writing "wanker stories" to writing erotica?

- PBW

 

[Guest]

Dear KillerMiffin

As an aspiring writer I am trying to draw my readers into the story. I want them to feel as passionately about the characters as I do. You appear to have a very good Idea of what it takes to write a really good story. I would appreaciate if you read my first short story submission and let me know what you think. I have one other complete story and several poems and I am currently working on two more short stories as well as a novel. Before I get too deep in the stories I would like to know if I am missing anything. With any luck (and some good feeback perhaps I can get my work published.

Grateful for your time,

El Cali

http://www.literotica.com/stories/showstory.php?id=32096