Censorship?

[sr71plt]

On the other hand, a friend of mine has noted "The government would classify fire if they could get away with it," and there's ample evidence that information that's embarrassing to decision-makers gets classified so it can be buried.)

Can't resist pointing out that this is exactly the same conspiracy theory stuff that you discussed in an earlier post.

 

[NotWise]

The intelligence community has an "independent" manuscript clearance office that does all of the clearances and redaction. If redactions are challenged (which Plame did), an inspector general with top secret clearances but not currently in the intelligence community is brought in to review all challenged redactions.

That doesn't sound to me like judicial review. It sounds like the executive branch gets to decide -- without any civil reivew -- what does and does not get published.

And, no, I'm not saying that all redactions are strictly kosher--or that everything redacted in the Plame manuscript remained redacted after the inspector general had reviewed it. I will say that Ms. Plame took a "take this and this and stick it" approach to what she put in her book (and I cheered her on).

I think she took the redactions with pride. They mayhave proved her point more than anything she wrote.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Islam did not come about after Jesus. Ishmael, who was the son of Abraham and Hagar (Abrahams servant). Ishmael and Hagar were cast out of Abrahams house when Sarah, Abrahams wife became pregnant.

Ishmael and Abraham built Mecca and Ishmael founded Islam. Ishmael-Islam.

This is why Christianity, Islam and Judaism are called "Abrahamic" religions. Abrahams off spring founded both Islam and Judaism and the hate between the two groups stems from Ishmael not being recognized as a son of Abraham while Isaac and Jacob are.

Sorry, Ldy_Sea, but religious myth and exegesis is not fact; your apparent belief that it is explains a lot of what I've read posted here.

(Oh, by the way, there's a great man - one who was ready to kill his own son at the behest of some capricious spirit [whoa, there, Abe! Put that knife away; I was only kidding!] and who, finding his wife barren, impregnates a servant, only to dump the mother and child out when his real wife gets preggers. That;s even better than Lot telling the crowd to fuck his own virgin daughters rather than some cute boy. Religion is a matter of belief, not fact, and ya gets ta picks yas own, Olive, and the one you pick is the one we'll know by.)

 

[sr71plt]

Islam did not come about after Jesus. Ishmael, who was the son of Abraham and Hagar (Abrahams servant). Ishmael and Hagar were cast out of Abrahams house when Sarah, Abrahams wife became pregnant.

Ishmael and Abraham built Mecca and Ishmael founded Islam. Ishmael-Islam.

This is why Christianity, Islam and Judaism are called "Abrahamic" religions. Abrahams off spring founded both Islam and Judaism and the hate between the two groups stems from Ishmael not being recognized as a son of Abraham while Isaac and Jacob are.

Oh, Christ almighty. The religion Islam was started by the prophet Mohammed 500 years after Christ. It doesn't mean shit that it pulled its history out of the Bible.

For that matter, Christ didn't start Christianity either. He was Jewish and wasn't forming a new church. If anyone started Christianity, it was Paul, and he post dates Christ.

If you're going to speel dogmatic claptrap, you should at least try to make it remotely arguably correct.

And what part of "this is stuff for the political board, not the AH," can't you understand?

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Oh, Christ almighty. The religion Islam was started by the prophet Mohammed 500 years after Christ. It doesn't mean shit that it pulled its history out of the Bible.

For that matter, Christ didn't start Christianity either. He was Jewish and wasn't forming a new church. If anyone started Christianity, it was Paul, and he post dates Christ.

If you're going to speel dogmatic claptrap, you should at least try to make it remotely arguably correct.

And what part of "this is stuff for the political board, not the AH," can't you understand?

Sorry, Pilot; I think this isn't appropriate for the political board anymore. Can we ask Laurel to establish a religious board?

 

[sr71plt]

That doesn't sound to me like judicial review. It sounds like the executive branch gets to decide -- without any civil reivew -- what does and does not get published.

No it's not judicial review. I'm not aware that judges have top secret clearances and are in the position to determine what is a government secret and what isn't. Government secrets and constitutional law aren't the same animals.

I'm aware that there are those who believe the government shouldn't have any secrets, but those tend to be the same dreamers who think that all citizens are intelligent and won't blab everything they hear to anyone who will listen.

 

[sr71plt]

Sorry, Pilot; I think this isn't appropriate for the political board anymore. Can we ask Laurel to establish a religious board?

Sure we can ask. When was the last time that asking for something made it happen at Literotica? Oh, right, the GB asked for a separate political board (and then regretted doing so). Well, the AH asking Laurel for something isn't in any way as worthy of Laurel's attention as the GB asking her. I'm still waiting for the bi category that she PMed me over nine years ago that she was considering.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

Sure we can ask. When was the last time that asking for something made it happen at Literotica? Oh, right, the GB asked for a separate political board (and then regretted doing so). Well, the AH asking Laurel for something isn't in any way as worthy of Laurel's attention as the GB asking her. I'm still waiting for the bi category that she PMed me over nine years ago that she was considering.

Maybe we could combine the two: a bisexual religious board with a hermaphroditic mod! (I have been joking, Pilot; I would hope we wouldn't have a religious board. )

 

[NotWise]

Islam did not come about after Jesus. Ishmael, who was the son of Abraham and Hagar (Abrahams servant). Ishmael and Hagar were cast out of Abrahams house when Sarah, Abrahams wife became pregnant.

I believe that you are confused, and that you have an extremely annoying signature.

The religion of Islam was founded by the Prophet Muhammad, who was born in Mecca in 570. There was a tradition that predated him that dates back to biblical history, but that is not the Muslim religion.

 

[Ldy_Sea]

No it's not judicial review. I'm not aware that judges have top secret clearances and are in the position to determine what is a government secret and what isn't. Government secrets and constitutional law aren't the same animals.

I'm aware that there are those who believe the government shouldn't have any secrets, but those tend to be the same dreamers who think that all citizens are intelligent and won't blab everything they hear to anyone who will listen.

There are federal judges who have Top Secret and greater clearance. They have to so they can sign warrants and try cases where someone either mishandled classified data or released it illegally. These trials are also classified so the public rarely hears about them.

Numerous Military judges have clearance so they can try cases that involve classified information as well.

As for determining what is and isn't a secret, there have been cases where someone requested classified documents under FOIA and judges heard teh arguments and sometimes the documents are released other times they aren't.

 

[sr71plt]

You completely missed my point. I'm not that surprised you did. Yes a judge can hold a top secret clearance and could get involved in a redaction case--but redaction isn't in the judicial stream unless/until someone sues and very few sue over redaction. Government secrets aren't in the judicial stream. And, for that matter, judges (many of whom are elected, most of whom got there through politics) aren't any more holy than an intelligence officer is who knows what a specific secret is and why. (The Palme case being an example--she just lost her job because the Cheney snit; there are other people who were putting their lives on the line for U.S. government interests who lost their lives because of it.)

 

[lovecraft68]

As I recall, Tipper was reasonably hot back then and probably would have been a good fuck.

I won't deny that. I think I was somewhere around 18-20 during that time and even though this was before milfs became a thing I'd had a few thoughts about her.

Pictured myself fucking her while singing the lyrics to shout at the devil

 

[lovecraft68]

Businesses can do whatever they want, or used to be able to before PC lynch mobs gained control of society by black balling any rule they don't like created by a major business.

But Lit and any other private business can set whatever rules they want and its not censorship because its not telling you that you can't, you just can't do it here. Lits few content rules aren't about legal, its about their personal beliefs. Can't write underage here, but you can on other sites, so find one if you want to.

For me censorship is simply when the Government tries to shut something down. No prayer in public school is censorship( and created by the PC mob I mentioned) I'm not religious at all, but if a kid wanted to say grace before he eats his lunch in school, who cares? In this day and age it should be seen as a a good a kid's having some type of value instilled in them.

When the republicans go off on one of their family values anti porn kicks that's censorship, they want to take it away from everyone, for no reason other than their pretend moral stance.

When I had my comic shop, there were a lot of( a surprising amount of) hardcore adult comics, like so hardcore I wondered why the hell they just weren't watching porn, then I realized the acts in these books could not be depicted with real people, it broke laws, but seeing the characters were cartoons...well just go look up some hentai or manga.

Point is a couple other comic stores would special order them just for that person, a few wouldn't order them at all.

I decided to be the only store at the time to carry all of them. My store had a big walk in closet in the back and I screwed a piece of slatwall to and put some racks in it. The closet had a sign saying adult material, see employee for key and it was locked. This way none of the young kids who came in to play the card games could get in or even see them.

I made a pretty decent sum of money on them and people came just for that reason because I went out of my way to find collections so I could have back issues as well.

Some parents complained that it was there even though their kid could not have access, its 'presence' upset them. I told well, sorry, but not getting rid of them.

I also pointed out that I'd lost a few comic collectors because they didn't like the fact I ran card games and they had to listen to the kids while they did their oh, so serious comic shopping and I told them the same thing, sorry, not losing money for you.

I saw it as censorship to eliminate a market over a few disgruntled people.

One threatened to picket me, I told them I'd love it, it would get me in the news.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

Islam did not come about after Jesus.

...

Um... no. I don't even know where you got any of that. What is absolutely known is that Muhammad received his "revelations" a few years before 613 AD. He wrote the Koran, assembled some followers, taught them quite a lot of stuff which is incompatible with either Christianity or Judiasm - of the three, Islam is very much the red-headed stepchild - and went on to found a movement that was widely rejected, then persecuted, and rapidly became a warlike movement. That is Islam. It didn't exist before him and there's no evidence that the followers of Islam were uniquely or even largely descended from Ishmael. Muhammad explicitly listed Jacob as one of the of his religion's very few trusted sources, in the Koran. Given the way that Islam has taken to persecuting Jews, that's rather ironic...

But... back to censorship, please.

 

[oggbashan]

Please give me an example. Give me an example where the majority of people that were given a voice, actually voted to directly hurt another group. Please, I am not asking in a snarky way. I like that you're trying to show me something I'm not seeing.
...

Look at Lithuania in 1941 after the German invasion.

The majority of Lithuanians identified their Jewish neighbours to the Nazis. The Nazis responded by giving the Lithuanian majority weapons to kill the Jews. The Lithuanian volunteer police outnumbered the Nazi death squads by ten to one and killed the majority of Lithuanian Jews themselves. The alcohol and bullets were provided by the Germans, but even without those, the Lithuanian majority killed Jews with crowbars, spades and even sticks.

If a majority overrides the rights of a minority, no one is safe, because all of us are a minority by some definition or other.

 

[Bramblethorn]

I won't deny that. I think I was somewhere around 18-20 during that time and even though this was before milfs became a thing I'd had a few thoughts about her.

Pictured myself fucking her while singing the lyrics to shout at the devil

Wasn't Danzig's "Mother" about Tipper?

 

[Bramblethorn]

Tio, everything I'm saying is going totally against what you're trying to explain to me! Ugh.

Please give me an example. Give me an example where the majority of people that were given a voice, actually voted to directly hurt another group. Please, I am not asking in a snarky way. I like that you're trying to show me something I'm not seeing.

You're limiting the options a bit there, since most laws in a representative democracy aren't made directly by majority vote. But one recent US example is California's Proposition 8 from 2008.

 

[lovecraft68]

Wasn't Danzig's "Mother" about Tipper?

I've heard that story and it could be true, timing is right as is the lyrics, but I sort of have a hard time believing anything Glenn Danzig's ever said.

 

[Zeb_Carter]

Should I give a crap about Tipper Gore now? Or for that matter Al Gore?

My answer to both questions: NO!

Should I give a crap about government censorship? YES!

Limits placed on what is printed, streamed, made downloadable by private companies is their business and has nothing to do with the government.

The Supreme Court has ruled that even the sexual assault of children in FICTIONAL writings is legal to write, sell and own and cannot be censored by the government.

Anyone else can censor it all they want. I for one don't want to write about it or read it.

 

[Kantarii]

How in the fuck did my post about censorship get turned into a religeous debate? Kant

 

[lovecraft68]

How in the fuck did my post about censorship get turned into a religeous debate? Kant

Fact, religious zealots of all religions are the ones most commonly involved with censoring something, using God(which ever god) as their excuse.

Here is the Republicans using "Family values" and lack of God in this country as an excuse to ban things like porn or anything portraying sex for anything but procreation and to send women back to the barefoot and pregnant stage which is what family values mean in pig speak, I mean repug lingo.

See, not it got political too

 

[Ldy_Sea]

So the 64 year old Imam with a doctorate in Islamic studies, who taught the Islamic portion of my World religions class in college had no idea what the history of Islam was. OKAY. I guess all of you know Islam better then a man with a Doctorate in Islamic studies who is a life long Muslim and grew up under Sharia Law. Seems Legit.

As for moving a convo, I am not a mod, I can't move the thread. Conversations ebb and flow and rarely stay on one topic. Don't like that too bad. Don't like my Sig ignore me.

Maybe if there weren't so many assholes sending disgusting PMs to the woman on here, I wouldn't need the sig. Read the asshat thread to see what I mean. The sig has cut down on the number of idiotic PMs I get. Yet there are still morons who send me sex requests.

 

[sr71plt]

How in the fuck did my post about censorship get turned into a religeous debate? Kant

Well, for one thing, your post wasn't clear. I don't know what you claim to be censorship (which is why I made a distinction) and whatever your beef is, you didn't make it clear.

Beyond that, all threads, if they continue, go off original topic.

 

[lovecraft68]

So the 64 year old Imam with a doctorate in Islamic studies, who taught the Islamic portion of my World religions class in college had no idea what the history of Islam was. OKAY. I guess all of you know Islam better then a man with a Doctorate in Islamic studies who is a life long Muslim and grew up under Sharia Law. Seems Legit.

As for moving a convo, I am not a mod, I can't move the thread. Conversations ebb and flow and rarely stay on one topic. Don't like that too bad. Don't like my Sig ignore me.

Maybe if there weren't so many assholes sending disgusting PMs to the woman on here, I wouldn't need the sig. Read the asshat thread to see what I mean. The sig has cut down on the number of idiotic PMs I get. Yet there are still morons who send me sex requests.

This is the net.....no matter what topic you toss out, someone here is more than an expert than the expert you knew in real life. That's how it works.

I don't think the thread has derailed much its on religion, but censorship inevitably leads to that discussion it seems.

 

[Kantarii]

Well, for one thing, your post wasn't clear. I don't know what you claim to be censorship (which is why I made a distinction) and whatever your beef is, you didn't make it clear.

Beyond that, all threads, if they continue, go off original topic.

Beef? I don't have any beef with anyone. I put a general topic of "censorship" out for discussion. If people would rather talk about religeous views, fine. I'd rather talk about fucking Metal.