Censorship? Bias? You decide....

[Lancecastor]

Here's something intereresting from an administrative perspective some might want to discuss:

I started a satire thread recently about the Sticky which contained the same basic crap I've been whining about for ages....unfair, incomplete rules, arbitrary & biased heavy-handed moderation.....yada yada yada.

The thread sunk like a rock...because we're not interested.

Let the people decide, I say.

So....along comes Risia, closes the thread, posting the following:

by RisiaThis is childish and inappropriate, and the reference to the "Online Predator" as a way to hook up implies threat, as it's an essay about recognizing abuse. I realize that someone will claim it's satire and so should be sacrosanct somehow. It's not. Suggesting that abuse and violence against submissives are appropriate dating etiquette is offensive in the extreme.

The intentional cooptation of actual Literotica administration format to advocate abuse could implicate the site (Literotica) legally in extreme circumstances. As such, this thread is closed.

RisiaSkye,
Forum Moderator

I also got a PM saying basically the same thing.

Both messages say in effect that Lit is concerned I might incite someone to cause harm to a submissive by making light of the Online Predators article.

Having read that I thought "Ewww, no thanks." and went to edit my post in the now closed thread to remove the words Lit says are offensive and could cause legal liability for the Owners.

Guess what?

I can't edit that post....because the thread is closed.

Which begs the question.....who's the real rat bastard in this scenario?

Cool beans! Everything I've been whining about confirmed in one neat little swing of Risia's blade. You rock, babe.

Lance

 

[MissTaken]

Sorry, Lance.

I have to agree with RS.

To the newbie or casual onlooker, that thread could mislead many.

And yes, there are predators here, as well as others.

The psyche of a predator is such that something like what you posted could, indeed, incite some unfavorable actions and yes, liability could be an issue.

HOwever. yes, the thread sunk until the unreg poster brought it back. Perhaps, the people decided and their efforts were thwarted?

If you have an issue with RS's actions...take it to Laurel.

 

[Lancecastor]

It's as plain as your 40D's to me.

I have no problem with Risia deciding the words could potentially be seen as inflammatory and thereby acting to remove them.....even though I disagree with her assessment and yours.

The issue is.....if the words are judged to be potentially harmful, why are they still up?

And why can I, of all people, not remove them myself?

Doesn't that strike you as being indicative of a motivation other than protecting potential readers and the board owners?

It's as plain as your 40D's to me....and I'd be very surprised if anyone sees it differently, but I'm open to suggestion.

Cheers

Lance

Sorry, Lance.

I have to agree with RS.

To the newbie or casual onlooker, that thread could mislead many.

And yes, there are predators here, as well as others.

The psyche of a predator is such that something like what you posted could, indeed, incite some unfavorable actions and yes, liability could be an issue.

HOwever. yes, the thread sunk until the unreg poster brought it back. Perhaps, the people decided and their efforts were thwarted?

If you have an issue with RS's actions...take it to Laurel.

 

[DRxBlue]

Hey Lance!

Just came in to take a dump! You're other shit pile's too high.

Aaaaahhh...

So whadya have for breakfast old man?

hehehe...just kidding!

Hey! Where's PeeBee? i need somthing to wipe my ass on!

See ya!

Blue

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Hey Lance!

Yeah, yeah, okay...touche.

Am I whining? Am I just 100% wrong on this?

Where is that damn petard self-hoister release anyway?

Lance

(if the words stay, it simply proves that Risia closes threads on the basis of personal bias)

Just came in to take a dump! You're other shit pile's too high.

Aaaaahhh...

So whadya have for breakfast old man?

hehehe...just kidding!

Hey! Where's PeeBee? i need somthing to wipe my ass on!

See ya!

Blue

 

[MissTaken]

Well, the fact you can't edit it is worth some thought, but I can't question RS's motivation.

Her motivation has never been other than to do a good job moderating the forum and she is often the voice of reason. You, yourself have shared some fun banter with her and seem to be able to engage in reasonable discourse with RS.

Perhaps, she will decide to edit the post for you, if it is possible.

Of course, her response on the thread indicates her concerns and that the webmasters do not condone or encourage predatorial behavior.

Perhaps that is enough to cover the liability issues.

Perhaps, leaving the post as is would be in order to respect your right to free speech., thereby allowing others who are amused by that sort of thing to get their chuckle and move on adn at the same time covering some "cyber ass" in terms of liability.

Who knows?
RS knows.

I am just throwing my hat in in support of her taking action concerning a misleading and potentially harmful thread.

 

[Mr Wolf]

Lance
I'm not here to argue or to moan at you, I don't know you so its not for me to do either, but what I would like to say is give it a rest.
For a while now you have gone on about freedom of speech etc yet seem intent on imposing your views on everybody who differs from your way of thinking.
This maybe an incorrect conclusion on my part, if it is then I have no doubt that you will point this out, however perhaps if that is not your intent why don't you stop posting all these threads and just observe for a little while.

 

[DRxBlue]

Harrrumph!!

Well i never!...

Far off Voice, "Maybe it's about time you DID!"

Still Blue

 

[Lancecastor]

If the intention is to:

1. Protect people from harm; and
2. Protect Lit from liability if someone is harmed,


Then the act of locking the very words they judge as harmful in place increases, not decreases, their liability exposure.

So, there is either other motivation, or they are stupid.

I suspect the former but am open to the latter or both as being the reality.

Lance

Well, the fact you can't edit it is worth some thought, but I can't question RS's motivation.

Her motivation has never been other than to do a good job moderating the forum and she is often the voice of reason. You, yourself have shared some fun banter with her and seem to be able to engage in reasonable discourse with RS.

Perhaps, she will decide to edit the post for you, if it is possible.

Of course, her response on the thread indicates her concerns and that the webmasters do not condone or encourage predatorial behavior.

Perhaps that is enough to cover the liability issues.

Perhaps, leaving the post as is would be in order to respect your right to free speech., thereby allowing others who are amused by that sort of thing to get their chuckle and move on adn at the same time covering some "cyber ass" in terms of liability.

Who knows?
RS knows.

I am just throwing my hat in in support of her taking action concerning a misleading and potentially harmful thread.

 

[lovetoread]

Why not simply pm her and ask her to edit it for you?

 

[Lancecastor]

I sent PM's as appropriate prior to starting the thread.

Lance

Why not simply pm her and ask her to edit it for you?

 

[SexyChele]

Perhaps if you would take 5 minutes to stop feeding your over-inflated ego and give some thought to what you are posting, you might be able to avoid these types of situations.

Damn, but I hate men who whine!

 

[zipman]

Re: It's as plain as your 40D's to me.

I have no problem with Risia deciding the words could potentially be seen as inflammatory and thereby acting to remove them.....even though I disagree with her assessment and yours.

The issue is.....if the words are judged to be potentially harmful, why are they still up?

And why can I, of all people, not remove them myself?

Doesn't that strike you as being indicative of a motivation other than protecting potential readers and the board owners?

It's as plain as your 40D's to me....and I'd be very surprised if anyone sees it differently, but I'm open to suggestion.

Cheers

Lance

Hey Lance,

I have to tell you that I agree with Risia on this one. I really don't understand why you have chosen Freedom of Expression as a Crusade here. I didn't find any suppression of thoughts or ideas before this. However, on to your post.

I not only found the thread in question to be inflammatory, but deliberately misleading, and a very real danger to any newbie reading it. You made it look as if the thread was posted by the forum by using the same language as the original. Someone new, who is seeking information, might easily not recognize it as satire. I wholeheartedly agree with Risia's decision.

As to why the words are still up, well, they are respecting your freedom of speech. The words were a threat when they were couched to appear as if they came from the "official Lit moderators. The fact that they are still "up" shows that they are not trying to stifle your ideas, they are simply protecting their ass.

As far as why you couldn't have edited it yourself, then maybe you should ask Laurel. But perhaps it was because this was not an errant post. It was a deliberate attempt to push their buttons. While I can't know what was in Risia's mind and I won't speak for her, here are a few possibilities to mull over.

1) Since your intent was to purposefully misrepresent a legitmate thread, perhaps they felt that you forced their hand. Freedom of Speech does have boundaries. Now you know what they are here.
2) Perhaps they felt that you did not deserve the chance to edit your thread. This whole thing comes across like a kid who pushes their parents, and then complains about the consequences.
3) If you are not responsible enough to create a thread which could put the site at liability, why would they think that you are responsible enough to edit it?

These are just possibilities, and represent what I think.

I have nothing against you Lance, and I do enjoy SOME of your posts. But the truth is, you seem much more interested in pushing your own agenda than in discussing BDSM. First it was the whole cym deal, then the role of the moderators, then free speech. It might not be a bad idea to consider why you are here. What you hope to gain, or not gain from this forum.

Regards,
Zip

 

[DRxBlue]

Maybe they're just being MEAN lance

Maybe you've done something that has offended them in the past, and now they're out to make your life a LIVING HELL!

Maybe they'll have your ex-wives and girlfriends start a buncha lawsuits againt ya. Maybe they'll circulate rumors that you're "not really so good in the sack". Maybe...you actually made a mistake and got CAUGHT!

All things to think about when you're trying to go to sleep.

Pleasant Dreams, mon ami,
Blue

 

[Astrid]

Are you arguing about not being able to say whatever you want on a commercially owned and operated site or not being given the opportunity to hit your rewind button at your leisure?

You can't actually say whatever you want here, you know. They have the right to pull any and all you have to say and they can readily exercise it at any time.

This is as much a public place as a library. Sure, hang out and read and write what you will, but when you stand up and start spouting the anti manifesto, ya gotta know what's gonna happen next.

Right?

 

[Lancecastor]

What I Am Hearing...

....is that:

* I am indeed 100% in the wrong

* Risia has done the right thing to prevent the allegedly harmful words from being removed

* Few, if any, sees any hypocrisy in that

* Even if there is hypocrisy in Risia's acts, it's gratifying to see Lance get taken down a peg or two.

That being said, the group has spoken and I will govern myself accordingly.

Thanks for your opinions; we now return to regularly scheduled spankings.

Ben Dover

 

[zipman]

Re: What I Am Hearing...

....is that:

* I am indeed 100% in the wrong

* Risia has done the right thing to prevent the allegedly harmful words from being removed

* Few, if any, sees any hypocrisy in that

* Even if there is hypocrisy in Risia's acts, it's gratifying to see Lance get taken down a peg or two.

That being said, the group has spoken and I will govern myself accordingly.

Thanks for your opinions; we now return to regularly scheduled spankings.

Ben Dover

This was a good post Lance, one I totally agree with, except for the part about seeing you taken down a peg or two. First I don't think you were taken down a peg or two, I think you asked for opinions and got them. There would be no gratification for me, to see you taken down a peg or two nor was it my intent.

But I really do respect the fact that you asked for opinions and accepted them. Too often, people that ask for opinions only want to create a forum where others can agree with them.

Zip

 

[ShyGuy68]

Guess what?

I can't edit that post....because the thread is closed.

Why do you want to edit the post in the first place? Don't you have the guts to stand by the words you've said in that post? Or do you want to take them back?

Honestly get a life outside the boards. We're here to have fun, and not bitch about every little detail that isn't to your liking. If you don't like the smell in the kitchen, get out of the kitchen!

 

[MysCynthia]

It would be wonderful if you do abide by your statement:

"That being said, the group has spoken and I will govern myself accordingly."

I've been quietly reading posts for a few years now and have never seen anyone disrupt the board the way you have. You are very witty and quite articulate but you are a distraction.

This seperate forum was not easy to come by. Please start to show some respect for those who are here and really want to talk to others who are interested in learning and sharing ideas.

It is easy to see that you crave attention and you are getting plenty of it here but it gets old having to wade through your tirades to see if you have anything of use to add to a discussion.
This is a forum about BDSM not freedom of speech, or pissing contests.

Please use your energy to set up your own site then those who truly find you amusing can post there.

No need to respond. I can easily imagine your sarcastic answer.
You are insulting to so many people here. I pray you aren't that way in real life. Although that may explain how you have time for so many threads here.

 

[Lancecastor]

Re: Re: Censorship? Bias? You decide....

Why do you want to edit the post in the first place?

Risia believes the post could expose the Owners to legal liability; that was her authority to act. IMO, the best way to prevent harm coming from someone reading the words and harming another as a result would be to remove the words. Though I believe the words are clearly satirical and not likely to create liability for the Owners, I thought the right thing to do would be to remove the words as a show of compliance and good faith with/in Risia and the Forum itself. I then discovered the post was frozen in place. Logic dictates therefore a motive other than the one she put in writing to me in a PM and to everyone on the Board. Because her actions put my character and motivations into question, I felt it appropriate to state my position and to do so in a clear and direct fashion. Maybe you would do the same in similar circumstances, maybe you wouldn't. That's why I sought to edit my post.

Don't you have the guts to stand by the words you've said in that post?

Yes, of course I stand by my words. As I suggested above, I believe I am in the right. Further, I believe that Risia's actions in using her "Power" as a Moderator are in direct response to Cym's third emotional spin-out and departure in three months. I get to be the scapegoat, as was WriterDom and Artful before me. Perhaps you'd like me to take the blame for Enron as well? How about Iraq?

Or do you want to take them back?
No. I stand by my words of satire. Satire is wonderful stuff for ferreting out hypocrisy. As I said above, my intentions were to be cooperative with the process of the Board and to act responsibly in light of Risia's Judgement. I see no problem in disagreeing with her logic but abiding by her decision. Subsequently discovering she too was speaking out of both sides of her mouth has brought us to this point.

Honestly get a life outside the boards. We're here to have fun, and not bitch about every little detail that isn't to your liking.

You are under no obligation to involve yourself in this discussion. My ability to articulate clearly on a wide range of topics neither diminishes nor devalues my knowledge and/or interest in BDSM. The "get a life" argument is classic flame bait, ShyGuy68....particularly silly bait at that. You cant have it both ways, bucko...if you really want to have fun, go have fun. If you want to take a poke at me, at least have the self-awareness to realize that that's what you're doing, genius. While you are making up your mind, you are cordially invited to take a long hard suck on your thumb, chum.

If you don't like the smell in the kitchen, get out of the kitchen!
Thanks. You too.

Cheers;

Lance

 

[KillerMuffin]

This is what I think Lance.


I think the paint covering up cym's name was barely dry before you started hounding Risia. Attacking and winnowing and fighting and ripping.

You have no point. You just have your hidden little agenda. Destroy the mods.

You can try, but it's not going to happen.

Keep it up DramaDom, you're just one of those pathetic lil' predators looking for some silly sub to rip to shreds before moving onto the next one. You disgree simply because you want to keep your vicious ass covered.

 

[Lancecastor]

This is what I think Lance.


I think the paint covering up cym's name was barely dry before you started hounding Risia. Attacking and winnowing and fighting and ripping.

Read the posts, Muffy. She came after me. Prove your point or bite my bum; your choice.

You have no point. You just have your hidden little agenda. Destroy the mods.

Mods, schmods, Cym was flipping out regularly with her foot stamping at HetDoms long before I got here. You know it, I know it, get over it. Blame it on Cain. Please refer to my Sig line for the answers to the emotionally-driven flame bait that comprised the rest of your "post". Chocolate? Red wine perhaps?

Cheers;

Lance

 

[KillerMuffin]

Sure, Lance. I'm sure you would like us all to believe that you're a blameless, sterling, little angel who would never ever ever not in a million billion quadrillion years deliberately hurt someone or do something that would make them feel violated or uncomfortable. You want everyone to look at you and see Grandma and not those nice big teeth of yours.

You're pretty transparent, there, buddy. We know you're a powermonger and you're just doing your best to rise to the top. You'll never make moderator, so get rid of them and hold it by brute force. Like that's an original M.O.

Keep it up. Play innocent, do your ridiculous edit two-step that you're so gosh-darned proud of, now don't forget to pander to the crowd, Lance "Of course they won't notice that I'm a total fucking asshole!" Castor.

Don't worry, no one will notice what a fucking dickhead you are.

 

[Lancecastor]

I'd be flattered by your constant attention , Muff, but you seem to have anger issues at the moment.

What's up?

I used to think of you as being an able, capable,articulate debatrix.....now you're pretty much a quivering pool of festering foul-mouthed goo.

What happened?

Where is the witty tenderness we used to share?

The lively banter?

The smiles and chuckles?

Can I help?

Need a *hug*?

Lance

Sure, Lance. I'm sure you would like us all to believe that you're a blameless, sterling, little angel who would never ever ever not in a million billion quadrillion years deliberately hurt someone or do something that would make them feel violated or uncomfortable. You want everyone to look at you and see Grandma and not those nice big teeth of yours.

You're pretty transparent, there, buddy. We know you're a powermonger and you're just doing your best to rise to the top. You'll never make moderator, so get rid of them and hold it by brute force. Like that's an original M.O.

Keep it up. Play innocent, do your ridiculous edit two-step that you're so gosh-darned proud of, now don't forget to pander to the crowd, Lance "Of course they won't notice that I'm a total fucking asshole!" Castor.

Don't worry, no one will notice what a fucking dickhead you are.

 

[DRxBlue]

He said it...

....is that:

* I am indeed 100% in the wrong

* Risia has done the right thing to prevent the allegedly harmful words from being removed

* Few, if any, sees any hypocrisy in that

* Even if there is hypocrisy in Risia's acts, it's gratifying to see Lance get taken down a peg or two.

That being said, the group has spoken and I will govern myself accordingly.

Thanks for your opinions; we now return to regularly scheduled spankings.

Ben Dover

Put up or shut up asshole!
Moderate yourself! Put yourself on ignore! Immolate youself in the middle of a frozen lake!

Do you have to make such a big production out of everything?