Category Changes Happened

[PennyThompson]

For what it's worth, Manu just posted an announcement about the category changes!

Literotica Authors and Readers have long requested that we publish the Transgender Stories and Crossdressing Stories in standalone categories. We've been working on that for quite some time and today we finally rolled out the new categories.

We used tags as well as keywords (in story text, titles, and descriptions) in an attempt to put each story into one of the two new categories.

The sorting that was done initially is likely to be less than perfect, so we want to get feedback from authors and readers to help us better understand where each of the stories in those two categories belongs.

If you're an author, please send us a Story Edit Request to update the category of your Transgender or Crossdressing story.

If you're a reader, please use the "Report This Story" link on each story page to suggest a category change for any story.

Thank you to everyone who suggested this change and to everyone who helps us organize the stories into the best possible category.

 

[KittyOfSteele]

Well I like these changes, and I'm pleased to see that all of my T&C stories are in the Transgender category, so no issues on my end.

Still haven't checked the tags, but that'll probably be for another moment.

 

[Britva415]

The tag cloud would need 'pruning' or collation

What does this mean?

Unlike the Categories list, the tag cloud isn't just some list Lit invented and can just change unilaterally. It's the tags which authors put on their stories.

I mean, they could, but I think it would be a major disservice to authors and to readers to change the tags the authors chose for their stories.

 

[AwkwardlySet]

"Fixed tags..." so, categories?

This is part of the issue. Anyone who suggests these things to L&M has to make an actual case. If I'm them, I'm looking for reasons to say "no." Now the proposal is different levels of tags?

There is plenty of wisdom to be gleaned from decades of user experience on Lit, SOL, AO3... All of these sites use different approaches to tagging and categorizing stories, and all have their own advantages and disadvantages.

I could write 5k words of examples and explanations in support of the solution that I proposed, but there is no point in doing it. It's not even hard to figure out most of these improvements. And before someone comments on it, all of these changes are improvements from the standpoint of a reader, which we all agree is what these websites are mostly concerned with.

But right now, the toughest problem for all of these websites would be implementing the changes in a huge database of stories. Manu said in the announcement what they had to do in order to split the stories between TG and CD, and they still made a mess that will take months before it's fully sorted. I suspect that the gargantuan nature of the work required to effect the improvements is what prevents any tangible change.

 

[Bamagan]

What does this mean?

Unlike the Categories list, the tag cloud isn't just some list Lit invented and can just change unilaterally. It's the tags which authors put on their stories.

I mean, they could, but I think it would be a major disservice to authors and to readers to change the tags the authors chose for their stories.

I mean combining redundant tags into a single one, like the variations mentioned in the comment I was replying to (18, 18-years-old, eighteen, etc.). Or, for another example, 'sub' and 'submissive' probably aren't both required... unless maybe someone has a submarine fetish. One story might have 'dominance' as a tag, while another writer chose 'dominant' or 'domination'. Some such distinctions may be important, like the difference between 'domme' and 'dom', but for the most part, having so many synonymous tags makes searching for content less helpful than it could be. There's a certain amount of incentive for writers to add those synonyms to increase the odds of being found.
I'm not sure I agree that it would be a disservice to anyone, although it's just about impossible to avoid offending everyone. It presumably wouldn't be necessary to actually remove the original tags, so much as cross-referencing them with a more uniform list for indexing purposes.

 

[Voboy]

I mean combining redundant tags into a single one, like the variations mentioned in the comment I was replying to (18, 18-years-old, eighteen, etc.). Or, for another example, 'sub' and 'submissive' probably aren't both required... unless maybe someone has a submarine fetish. One story might have 'dominance' as a tag, while another writer chose 'dominant' or 'domination'. Some such distinctions may be important, like the difference between 'domme' and 'dom', but for the most part, having so many synonymous tags makes searching for content less helpful than it could be. There's a certain amount of incentive for writers to add those synonyms to increase the odds of being found.
I'm not sure I agree that it would be a disservice to anyone, although it's just about impossible to avoid offending everyone. It presumably wouldn't be necessary to actually remove the original tags, so much as cross-referencing them with a more uniform list for indexing purposes.

Right, but again... that's the same concept as categories that already exist. I think the effect of having pre-made tags would be to dilute the ones that make a piece unique, because people are lazy and click on the first thing. So the follow-on effect would be hundreds of stories with identical tags.

You're essentially suggesting "more categories."

 

[Bamagan]

Right, but again... that's the same concept as categories that already exist. I think the effect of having pre-made tags would be to dilute the ones that make a piece unique, because people are lazy and click on the first thing. So the follow-on effect would be hundreds of stories with identical tags.

You're essentially suggesting "more categories."

I agree that there would be many more stories with identical tags, since that is the whole point, making things more easily searchable. I disagree with your other characterizations, though.

 

[Voboy]

I agree that there would be many more stories with identical tags, since that is the whole point, making things more easily searchable. I disagree with your other characterizations, though.

This is fine; it's important, though, to remember what some are asking the site to do, and come up with good reasons why they're asking.

 

[Bamagan]

This is fine; it's important, though, to remember what some are asking the site to do, and come up with good reasons why they're asking.

As I've said at least twice, I'm not asking for or suggesting changes, just hypothesizing about ways to improve the tag system and related searches. Making it easier to find content, especially content that could be spread across multiple categories, would be the rationale if I was pushing for change. I think making it easier for authors and readers to connect through the medium of the stories they both want to enjoy is the benefit. Whether or not that is enough to justify the cost is not something anyone but the site is really equipped to answer.

 

[SkyBubble]

nor have the Loving Wives been divorced from the Vengeful Husbands.

Maybe tehy forgot to file.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

That's a general problem with proliferating more and more categories: you just never get enough.

Instead making more of them, which is just slapping a band-aid over a bleeding wound of abysmal discoverability, we need a stronger tagging system and a way to subscribe to tags. Then we could actually start removing categories, not adding them.

I agree, except that the site has been using writer generated custom tags to a maximum of 10 for decades. Any new proper robust tagging system that replaces categories would leave several thousand legacy stories unfindable.

Perfect world, I'm with you 100% but lit is never going to be near perfect. It's been too fucked up for too long. And I say this as someone who is never opposed to change, even radical change, if change has significant benefit. Personally I never cling to old ways if they no longer serve, but in this case such a radical change is just going to be too unfair to old stories.

 

[Dodobird92]

Incest/Taboo, Nonconsent/Reluctance, and Celebrities & Fan Fiction all got the order of their names reversed

I was wondering wtf happened. I thought they maybe deleted I/T, but why would they delete their, what, 2nd biggest I think, category? The bigger question.... Why would they make this kind of change, seems so... Pointless and, as you said, trivial? Unless I missed it somewhere, some kind of official statement would've been nice so we knew about it instead of collectively losing our minds trying to find these 3 categories.

 

[GoldenMaia]

What other Taboo is there? The readers want incest and loving wives. The top 10 stories 'of all time' .... Are incest. I am not sure any other categories matter.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Changing the I/T to T/I .....

Are they trying to take the focus off I?

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

What other Taboo is there?

Half of Lit.

All the workplace stuff. Professor/student/tutor. Public exposure. Sex club stuff.

But that all fits into other categories.

Problem is the I crowd is oddly specific. If it isn't direct parent/offspring, or sibling/sibling they don't want to see it. The parents in the room and being indirectly involved while Kimmy entertains her partner or going to a strip club to watch their daughter do lap dances is certainly 'taboo', but the I crowd gets fussy. They don't even like it if Dad gets an intimate lap dance from his daughter but doesn't end up penetrating her.

I did one where Mom did a group of her son's friends, sucked him and took him in her ass while the others DP'd her. They bitched because sonny didn't do her pussy.

 

[GoldenMaia]

Half of Lit.

All the workplace stuff. Professor/student/tutor. Public exposure. Sex club stuff.

But that all fits into other categories.

Problem is the I crowd is oddly specific. If it isn't direct parent/offspring, or sibling/sibling they don't want to see it. The parents in the room and being indirectly involved while Kimmy entertains her partner or going to a strip club to watch their daughter do lap dances is certainly 'taboo', but the I crowd gets fussy. They don't even like it if Dad gets an intimate lap dance from his daughter but doesn't end up penetrating her.

I did one where Mom did a group of her son's friends, sucked him and took him in her ass while the others DP'd her. They bitched because sonny didn't do her pussy.

I LOVE a hawt Step-brother or Brother's-best-friend...but it seems that would FLOP here. I'm not sure I can do a Mother-Son/Father-Daughter. Maybe I super over the top Father-daughter, barely legal madness. LOL!

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

I'm not sure I can do a Mother-Son/Father-Daughter.

I resisted that for a long, long time. Lots where Mom and or Dad are close by and involved, like the one mentioned above. Many mention the parent refusing.

But I finally put one down, and reading over a few times, I think it came out quite well. Most I've read or scanned and really cheesy and trashy. I went a different way. I'll know in a few days I guess, just waiting for a published date now.

 

[GoldenMaia]

I resisted that for a long, long time. Lots where Mom and or Dad are close by and involved, like the one mentioned above. Many mention the parent refusing.

But I finally put one down, and reading over a few times, I think it came out quite well. Most I've read or scanned and really cheesy and trashy. I went a different way. I'll know in a few days I guess, just waiting for a published date now.

I look forward to seeing what you find. I think sometimes it's about the finish vs the story or a polished story.

I do love this website. I gained my writing confidence here. And I adore my erotic fiction. So....I'M BACK!! Just trying to decide what to actually write. I /WANT/ readers.

 

[Erozetta]

I LOVE a hawt Step-brother or Brother's-best-friend...but it seems that would FLOP here. I'm not sure I can do a Mother-Son/Father-Daughter. Maybe I super over the top Father-daughter, barely legal madness. LOL!

Not necessarily. I did both of those and they did pretty well.

 

[M_K_Babalon]

That would probably be the best direction the site could take to make the system more robust. The critical point is the tagging system. The present tag system obviously isn't good enough for such a solution. And there is also AO3 as a lesson on how not to tag. Every time I browse that site I can't help wondering what the fuck were they thinking?

That tag system works just fine.
Fandom-Cast/Ship-Other and the content warnings. There's also tag suggestions as you type, and they wrangle and combine tags.

 

[Five_Inch_Heels]

Anything I've done involves 20+, home form colleges, home from the military, etc.


Generally I don't do direct parent offspring at all. Lots of indirect and near contact, but not direct.


The new one posting on the 28th IS direct, but is more like 25 - 45 and closer to romance really.

 

[Dodobird92]

I did one where Mom did a group of her son's friends, sucked him and took him in her ass while the others DP'd her. They bitched because sonny didn't do her pussy

My issue is that I had a friend that talked WAY too much about various butt stuff. So much so the thought of it not just turned me off but began to disgust me. I enjoy incest stories, in particular sibling, half sibling, and cousin. My question is, why does it always HAVE to lead to butt stuff? Not everybody is into that, but yet it's nearly in everything. If you where to filter out butt stuff, I swear It would remove like 90% of the content. That being said, the example you made is still incest, so I don't get what people are big mad about it for, they're just overreacting

 

[Maxximus0040]

I mentioned this in the coffee shop, but figured it might deserve a thread of its own.
I noticed today that the Transgender/Crossdressing category has undergone division and become two categories, each with their own hub and a portion of the content. Incest/Taboo, Nonconsent/Reluctance, and Celebrities & Fan Fiction all got the order of their names reversed, which seems like a pretty trivial distinction to me, but perhaps it's a bigger deal than I realize.
It looks like these changes are only a few days old at most. The story submission drop-down menu still has the old names, though, and no option for the new Crossdressing category yet.

Edit: And no, no Bisexual category yet, nor have the Loving Wives been divorced from the Vengeful Husband

 

[Maxximus0040]

If they are in the mood to re-organize categories, they should take all the willing cuckold and wife sharing stories out of Loving Wives. They could go one better and setup a category for cheating spouses while they are at it.

 

[Voboy]

If they are in the mood to re-organize categories, they should take all the willing cuckold and wife sharing stories out of Loving Wives. They could go one better and setup a category for cheating spouses while they are at it.

Gee.

Amazing that nobody has ever suggested this before. Wow.