Catch of the Day

[REDWAVE]

Those of you who follow the news at all have already heard about the capture of Ramzi bin al-Shibh in Pakistan. Supposedly, he is a high-level Al Qaeda operative who was in on the Sept. 11 planning, and was even going to be the "20th hijacker" at one point. I have no idea if that's true, but it is obvious that his fundamental human rights are being violated. He's currently being "interrogated" (i.e., tortured) by the Pakistanis. He hasn't been charged with any crime, hasn't been allowed to talk to a lawyer, and I doubt if the Pakistanis read him his rights. He should be either freed, or else immediately charged, and given a fair trial, with full due process of law, and with his fundamental human rights scrupulously honored.

In an unrelated development which also shows the racist, repressive nature of the "war on terror," three Arab-American medical students were detained for hours because in Florida of a phony bomb scare. A woman in Georgia reported them to the authorities, apparently just because they were of Middle Eastern origin, and three innocent people were harassed for many hours because of their ethnicity. Stop the racist pogrom against Arab-Americans!

 

[HeavyStick]

they will as soon as you open your paypal account.

we got donations waiting

 

[Pagliacci]

Red>>

I'm sure poor Ramzi is getting all the rights he's due in accordance with the laws of the country he's in.

Are you suggesting that countries should enforce their values upon other countries all of a sudden.If so how should this be done ?

Declaring war and dropping a few bombs,then install a puppet regime to make sure that the laws mirror those of the country that believes it's better ?

 

[HeavyStick]

red wants a socialist government with our first amendment and the legal system that is more liberal than ours.

that is the pipe dream he's puffing on and his "revolution" is joke.

 

[Pagliacci]

red wants a socialist government with our first amendment and the legal system that is more liberal than ours.

that is the pipe dream he's puffing on and his "revolution" is joke.

Seems like he wants that for the world,no matter if the world willingly chooses something else.Thus in believing in revolution he wants to press his own view upon others since he believes that his own views are more worth than Democracy.

I know it's a pipe dream

Communism is great as a theory,it's when it hits reality that things fall apart.

 

[REDWAVE]

All I'm saying here is that everyone has fundamental human rights. It's very interesting that statement should be controversial at all.

Shows how far this country has degenerated into outright fascism.

 

[Pagliacci]

All I'm saying here is that everyone has fundamental human rights. It's very interesting that statement should be controversial at all.

Shows how far this country has degenerated into outright fascism.

Interesting to note that you assume that I am American,something I'm not.

Then do please tell me who should define these fundamental human rights ?
According to Judeo Christian values ? According to the Sendero Luminoso and their Chairman Gonzalo ?

 

[TallOne]

It wasn't just because they were middle eastern. They were 'playing a joke' on the Georgia woman by talking about sept 11 and how people would mourn on sept 13. They also asked each other if they had enough explosives to bring it down. Something nobody should find funny these days. That woman and the authorities did the right thing. Sucks that they blew up the guy's backpack though. And wasn't it 3 people?

Here in Ohio a guy was arrested and a building evacuated because he told someone he was installing a bomb in the building(was supposed to be a sarcastic remark). Seems an airport isn't the only place you can't say 'bomb' these days.

And yes you are arguing that the idea of fundamental human rights should apply in places where that is not the norm. Thus forcing your belief on others.

They didn't arrest a law abiding Pakistani citizen. They captured a Prisoner of War. The same rights do not apply to POWs in any legal system I know of.

 

[HeavyStick]

All I'm saying here is that everyone has fundamental human rights. It's very interesting that statement should be controversial at all.

Shows how far this country has degenerated into outright fascism.

at what point do Americans intervene? when you say so?

hypocrite

 

[Weird Harold]

I have no idea if that's true, but it is obvious that his fundamental human rights are being violated. He's currently being "interrogated" (i.e., tortured) by the Pakistanis.

Just another bullshit distortion by pinkripple:

From: http://www.msnbc.com/news/804392.asp?cp1=1
Sept. 14 — Two people believed to be high-level al-Qaida members were arrested in raids this week and are being held and questioned in Pakistan, Pakistan said Saturday. Ramzi Binalshibh, the alleged coordinator of the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, is among those arrested and is now in U.S. custody, U.S. officials told NBC News.

 

[REDWAVE]

How awful of me to try to force rights upon people!

 

[REDWAVE]

Free the Buffalo Five!

More information has emerged today about the five Americans of Yemeni descent who were arrested yesterday in upstate New York. It appears their heinous "crime" is-- attending a training camp in Afghanistan! That's no crime! But the government's racist persecution of them IS a crime.

 

[TallOne]

How awful of me to try to force rights upon people!

It's those very concepts that get these exteremists upset enough at us to do things like 9/11. We have an arrogant view of the best way to arrange society. It's a simple culture clash. Not everyone agrees that individuals have certain rights.

But taking your concept to the extreme, we should go invade just about EVERY other country in the world to impose the Bill of Rights everywhere.

 

[HeavyStick]

yaaaaaaaaawn

when it was all peaceful someone went and tripped on your rock..... shoooo get away

 

[TallOne]

Re: Free the Buffalo Five!

More information has emerged today about the five Americans of Yemeni descent who were arrested yesterday in upstate New York. It appears their heinous "crime" is-- attending a training camp in Afghanistan! That's no crime! But the government's racist persecution of them IS a crime.

"In the past 24 hours, federal authorities have arrested five United States citizens who reside near Buffalo, New York, on charges of providing material support to al Qaeda," Deputy Attorney General Larry Thompson said.

The charges of providing, attempting to provide and conspiring to provide material support to a foreign terrorist group carry a maximum penalty of 15 years in prison.

Not a crime eh? You put an interesting spin on every story don't you?

 

[HeavyStick]

Re: Re: Free the Buffalo Five!

Not a crime eh? You put an interesting spin on every story don't you?

Wheel of Redwave

becareful he'll think about answering then give you the recipe for peanut and jelly sandwiches...... he's sneaky like that

 

[REDWAVE]

Replies

Weird-- Whatever. The accounts have conflicted. Some reports said he was in Pakistani custody. The NYT article said it wasn't clear whether he was in Pakistani or U.S. custody. Whichever gestapo has him, it's a safe bet he's being tortured to extract information.

Tall-- The "material support" they're charged with giving is attending a training camp. That certainly shouldn't be a crime.

 

[Oliver Clozoff]

Attending a training camp operated by a the most notorious terrorist organization in the world doesn't warrant being arrested?

Explain that to me.

 

[Spinaroonie]

It wasn't just because they were middle eastern. They were 'playing a joke' on the Georgia woman by talking about sept 11 and how people would mourn on sept 13. They also asked each other if they had enough explosives to bring it down. Something nobody should find funny these days. That woman and the authorities did the right thing. Sucks that they blew up the guy's backpack though. And wasn't it 3 people?

I guess you've never had a waiter give you a look because you're of a certain race and give you crappy service and keep her eyes on you all night.

 

[REDWAVE]

OC

Huh? What? I didn't say they attended West Point.

 

[TallOne]

Re: Replies

Tall-- The "material support" they're charged with giving is attending a training camp. That certainly shouldn't be a crime.

Oh what a horrible world we live in. Can't attend a TERRORIST training camp without being labeled a terrorist. Where else can you learn to take hostages and assault motorcades these days.

Besides they've been arrested and charged. They will be given a trial to determine if they've committed a crime. Their manpower in the training operations is material enough to convict. Getting training alone should fall easily in "attempting to provide" or conspiring to...

 

[REDWAVE]

Getting the training, by itself, should not be a crime.

 

[HeavyStick]

Getting the training, by itself, should not be a crime.

besides being a socialist revolutionary, what practical purpose would that serve in everyday life?

uhoh I can't open the peas, hand me the delayed timer and TNT

 

[p_p_man]

Attending a training camp operated by a the most notorious terrorist organization in the world doesn't warrant being arrested?

Explain that to me.

All it should do is put him under suspicion.

But the attitude you reveal is a fairly typical example of how the world sees America and Americans and the twisted logic in how you view justice and the law. It depends very heavily on your emotional well being at the time.

If the police saw you drunk as a skunk Oliver, does that give them the right to arrest you before you've broken any law?

ppman

 

[HeavyStick]

All it should do is put him under suspicion.

But the attitude you reveal is a fairly typical example of how the world sees America and Americans and the twisted logic in how you view justice and the law. It depends very heavily on your emotional well being at the time.

If the police saw you drunk as a skunk Oliver, does that give them the right to arrest you before you've broken any law?

ppman

1. If they took out Westminster Abbey, Big Ben or your favorite pub. you might think differently

2. Most cities in America have a Public Intoxication Law, so yes they can arrest you.