Carnage in Mosul: Lest we forget...

[jd4george]

That was the headline in this morning's paper: CARNAGE IN MOSUL The letters were three inches high (I measured them). The first section of the paper had some 8 additional pages, all decrying this most recent death toll: 24 soldiers died and some 80 were wounded. (Of that, 2 men were from Maine, and 6 or 8 were among the wounded).

Yes, it's terrible. It is also the cost of war making.

Somewhere along the line, we have become intolerant of death. Each American that is killed is now memorialized on the evening news, complete with pictures of the family's tears, the soldier's dreams, and pictures of their high school football trophies.

The upside, perchance, is that public opinion may hasten the end of this conflict. But that is not why this morning's headline bothered me.

A couple of months ago, I posted a poem: Pagan Rites of the Barbarian King It is (was) a little diatribe about this war, and about the human cost of our warlike nature. It is about the millions who have died in the name of "political righteousness". It is about waste. It is about forgetting our own history, and the cost in human lives.

My problem is that we conveniently forget. Yesterday, 24 of our bretheren were killed... over 1300 to date. But I have a hard time with the numbers. Back in 1864, during the Battle of the Wilderness, over 15,000 men died in the first ten minutes. (See my poem Wilderness Road, 1864

But those numbers pale in comparison to the true carnage that we participated in during the 20th Century. When I say we, I'm talking about mankind... not just Americans.

Consider these number that I posted in my comment on "Pagan Rites of the Barbarian King":

"The 5.5 million military and civilian casualties of those six 20th Century events pales in comparison to the 20 million victims of Stalin's scourge, or the 35 million victims of the 1960's famine caused by the policies of Mao Zedong.

Sadly, they all died in the name of political righteousness.

Auschwitz: 1.2 million killed
Nagasaki: 135,000 killed
Leningrad: 1.6 million killed
Verdun: 750,000 killed
Stalingrad: 1.52 million killed
Nanjing: 300,000 killed"

24 soldiers died yesterday, and they shouldn't have. Poetically, and emotionally, I beleive in the carnage of "one", or "24"... but lest we forget, if one soldier dying is a carnage, then what of those 60.5 million?

I'd rather be talking about Christmas, but this has my dander up! Thanks for letting me vent, and I'm going to close with the ending verse from the aforementioned poem:

"He just strummed softly at his harp
as the fires were lit, and the cities burned.
In the roar of that rampant, silent blaze
I could not hear the children scream
as they were swallowed by the flames,
their bones soon fashioned into swords."

 

[Angeline]

Hi jd.

I think I've posted this poem (which I wrote about 18 months ago) somewhere else on this forum, but I'll put it here, too, for solidarity's sake, because I understand.

Glossolalia

My voice is speaking
in tongues you cannot hear,
or will not listen
to voices crying over and over.

This is not glory.
This false hubris

is dead faces in gas masks
or bodies falling from boats
and filling the Atlantic,

where daddy was a medic in the
Third Wave.

There was no glory,
he said to me
or the night sky.

There was no honor.
Just death and surf,
and death and sand,
and death and death.

Innocence ripped
from exhausted boys,
knee deep in malaria
in north Africa and Bataan.

In Mei Lai the flames of children
screaming in Treblinka
or vaporized flash gone
in Nagasaki.

Children rolling over deserts
rife with land mines,
the legless ones who never walked,
hollow eyes in camps,
hordes hungering in mountain passes.

And even senseless children firing
the last of their innocence
at children sprawled
on the thorns of death
over art history and
organic chemistry books
on a warm spring morning.

We march into the unknown
only to discover
what mothers always know:

It’s just someone else’s child.

It’s all the same in the end,
all this marching
and cheering and waving
goes on and on and on,
but nobody ever owns
the world.


Ange

 

[flyguy69]

...Somewhere along the line, we have become intolerant of death. Each American that is killed is now memorialized on the evening news, complete with pictures of the family's tears, the soldier's dreams, and pictures of their high school football trophies.

The upside, perchance, is that public opinion may hasten the end of this conflict. ...

And you see a downside to this? You cite the lives lost as "the cost of warmaking" as if warmaking were a desirable goal, and therefore worth this cost.


My lament is that we only see these boys and girls memorialized, and not all of the lives lost. When we recognize that every death takes a piece of a living heart with it we may finally realize that this cost is too high.

This my be a good forum for our poetry on this topic. Here is mine: Coffee in Wartime.

Angeline's is (as usual) stunning, and I remember that Maria had one published. I'm going to go reread Pagan Rites of the Barbarian King, I remember liking it a lot.

 

[Angeline]

Re: Re: Carnage in Mosul: Lest we forget...

And you see a downside to this? You cite the lives lost as "the cost of warmaking" as if warmaking were a desirable goal, and therefore worth this cost.


My lament is that we only see these boys and girls memorialized, and not all of the lives lost. When we recognize that every death takes a piece of a living heart with it we may finally realize that this cost is too high.

This my be a good forum for our poetry on this topic. Here is mine: Coffee in Wartime.

Angeline's is (as usual) stunning, and I remember that Maria had one published. I'm going to go reread Pagan Rites of the Barbarian King, I remember liking it a lot.

Coffee in Wartime is excellent. I remember thinking that when I first read it, and I still think so. Maria's poem is, too (as usual ). If I recall correctly, not only won an award, but is being used in a documentary film. (atta girl, Maria).

Here's another I wrote about a year ago.

My Boy

That boy I love
snorts when he laughs,
sometimes hiccups.

He calls me names.

He can call me anything
he wants because
that boy I love

can do anything.

He can memorize
the periodic table,
write poems
about clog-dancing kings,
knights of square tables,
and backward empires.

He drink more coca cola than god.

That boy I love cried
when his fish died,

and once
in a tiny voice
asked me if numbers
neverending is the meaning
of infinity.

I didn't mind when
he got the dog bite
or even when I
almost lost my job
staying home with him
because he almost
lost his eye.

He's taller than me now,
he started shaving,
but i'm still in charge, so
I say that boy I love
can do anything

except be a soldier.

 

[jd4george]

Re: Re: Carnage in Mosul: Lest we forget...

And you see a downside to this? You cite the lives lost as "the cost of warmaking" as if warmaking were a desirable goal, and therefore worth this cost.

My lament is that we only see these boys and girls memorialized, and not all of the lives lost. When we recognize that every death takes a piece of a living heart with it we may finally realize that this cost is too high.

My friend, it is that very cost of warmaking that I object to. I always have. One solitary life lost to "political righteousness" is carnage. So is 24... or 1300.

What troubled me so much this morning was the fact that the entire tone of the newspaper was that it is HORRIFIC THAT THIS IS HAPPENING TO US!

I cried when the Twin Towers were struck because the human toll seemed so great. When half that number died at Pearl Harbor, we called it a "day that shall live in infamy".

But we didn't cry when 135,000 died at our hands in Nagasaki. We don't talk about our victems in Hiroshima. Even worse, we don't even acknowlege the 35 million that died in China while we lusted for developing free trade. They died of famine while we paid our farmers to plow corn and wheat under.

Yes, there was precious blood spilled yesterday, and their sacrifice deserves rememberance. But when we take on the mantle of indignance and speak in tones of shock and hyperbole, we solidify the political righteousness that took their lives.

Each new death is one too many. When we will finally understand that we reap what we sow? When will we finally take a stand and say "no more"?

But philosophically, I wonder: When we will finally list the names of those that died at our hands... by our swords, or by our kiss. When will their lives be worth as much as the 24 who died needlessly yesterday?

 

[Miss Oatlash]

Thanks, jd. Good topic for us to think abut during the holidays.

While not written specifcally about war, Mutt's poem Inhumanity is a good one for this thread. It speaks about war and other terrible things we do in the name of god. This war, no matter what other factors might have precipatated it, has been justified in the name of god.

 

[flyguy69]

Re: Re: Re: Carnage in Mosul: Lest we forget...

... When we will finally list the names of those that died at our hands... by our swords, or by our kiss. When will their lives be worth as much as the 24 who died needlessly yesterday?

Well put, JD. It may be naive to think that if we just learn to feel each other's pain violence may be unnecessary, but in that naivity lies the only hope for peace. Islam teaches it. Christianity teaches it. Humanism teaches it. But the adherents are awfully slow to believe it.

 

[tungtied2u]

Where are the 3" high headlines for those suffering genocide and starvation in Africa and Asia?

Where are the tears for those in Iran whose families and homes have been rent asunder in the name of stability and democracy?

And in our own country, should we not be ashamed,saddened and outraged at the number of starving and homeless, and especially the number of children living below the poverty level, and without medical insurance, in this land which so many seem to feel is morally superior to the rest of the world ?

 

[champagne1982]

I used this in another thread, on another forum, to express my dismay at the unleashing of American military might in Iraq.

Baby's Breath

Would that men had wombs.
Perhaps then soldiers' tombs
would be fewer numbered.
For as their fathers look
upon their baby faces
there in the quiet night;
as their children slumber,
they would realize that sleep
is far better than is death
and that only peace is felt
on a baby's breath.

 

[Maria2394]

Re: Re: Re: Carnage in Mosul: Lest we forget...

Coffee in Wartime is excellent. I remember thinking that when I first read it, and I still think so. Maria's poem is, too (as usual ). If I recall correctly, not only won an award, but is being used in a documentary film. (atta girl, Maria).
~~~~

here it is Angeline, thanks for the mention and you forgot, your glossallia was also a poem of the week on that site, whic h you sent me to, so thanks
~~~


deeper than the truth

They buried that soldier boy last Friday
in a pleasant enough graveyard
by the old Baptist church and just
a few yards from the preschool playground

When the tents are gone and flowers removed
by caretakers, family and friends
he might just have a view
of the old country cupboard where he
and his buddies bought glass bottled cokes
and condoms before they were old enough
to fight or vote

When I drive past the church I think of him
and I wondered just yesterday if he could see
a bit to the right, from deep beneath the soil
the Shell station a half mile down the road

The price of gas is falling.
But the young men are falling faster


6/18/04

~~~
jd, as you stated, this situation gets to you, it does to me as wll. It sickens me, to the point of self isolation. I do not read the paper and rarely watch the news. I feel ashamed that I am a human sometimes and the worst part, is why I feel that way! I feel powerless to help anyone, the soldiers, the children, the starving and homeless, tell me what I can do?

 

[jthserra]

His father spoke of a thousand points of light

and now: A Thousand Voices .

Patti Smith's "Radio Baghdad" is one of the most powerful things I have read or heard on war in a long, long time.


jim

 

[jd4george]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Carnage in Mosul: Lest we forget...

jd, as you stated, this situation gets to you, it does to me as wll. It sickens me, to the point of self isolation. I do not read the paper and rarely watch the news. I feel ashamed that I am a human sometimes and the worst part, is why I feel that way! I feel powerless to help anyone, the soldiers, the children, the starving and homeless, tell me what I can do?

My dear Maria...

You teach our children love, tolerance and restraint. You teach them to decry war and all form of inhumanity, while still supporting those who die for us. When you have a loaf of bread, you give away half... when you have a single piece of bread, you give it to someone hungrier than you.

You accept that one voice of reason still can be heard in this world. Whenever possible, you speak the name of a victem or celebrate the meek. You teach our children to sing of beauty and life, and to respect all creatures great and small.

Change, I believe, happens by example. You continue to share that tender heart of yours. You continue to be the loving woman you are. You continue to feel that sadness, and that shame.

You continue to write!

And when the world seems so bleak as to force you into isolation, you resist... remembering that the great flood started with a single tear.

 

[postobitum]

Been gone for a while, so...

just now finding these new threads, well new to me.

I understand where everyone is coming from on all this. From the perspective of a military wife raised in deep East Texas (where guns were part of everyday life, it was rare not to have family in the military, and the grim war stories from family elders were told at every gathering) I have to say I also see that there is indeed a need for war at times. It would be great if we could stop conflict just by preaching peace and love and human brotherhood but that's not a practical reality in a world as screwed up as ours.

I welcome the idea of my husband and brother, both Marines, being deployed to a foreign nation to risk their lives for people I have never met because I know they're also doing it for my daughter here at home. I would be ashamed if they didn't make an effort to help those less fortunate than us, if they had cringed at the responsibility handed to them.

I take comfort that so many terrorists and evil men and women are dying daily at the hands of our military. How many innocent people have we saved by removing the terrorists, the real murderers? Is an evil and heartless human responsible for acts of true hatred against others a life really worth saving? I don't think so. If there is a rotten apple in the barrell don't you pick it out and throw it away before the rest of the apples rot too?

I know I am probably going to be blasted for all eternity for this little posting, but that's how I feel. I just don't believe peace works in our time, not as long as people like Saddam and Kim Jong II (North Korea ~ the Dear Leader) are allowed to live. Don't get me wrong, fellow poets, I do wish we lived in a peaceful world, and I think someday it may possible. I just happen to believe we have a very long way to go and we are going to spill more blood getting there. I would just rather it be theirs than ours.

There is no easy way around this kind of stuff. It's supposed to make us sick and weary, it's supposed to be something that moves us and makes us want to change things. It should always be the driving force behind every cartridge slammed home on a battlefield. I don't think we give ourselves, as a nation, enough credit. We do a whole hell of a lot for this world despite our failings and short comings, despite what our critics say, and that's not something we should ever forget. Take pride in it!

Look, I probably shouldn't even be saying all this stuff. I recognize that my view is not a popular one, and I don't particulaly care that most of the people I have met on here won't be with me on this one, that's ok. Guess I had to let it all out though, I wouldn't feel right not saying my piece. Here's my previously posted war poem, it hasn't been commented on yet, I have a feeling I know why (but it's ok )

Family in Arms

 

[HomerPindar]

This is not a war poem.

 

[BooMerengue]

Re: Been gone for a while, so...

just now finding these new threads, well new to me.

I understand where everyone is coming from on all this. From the perspective of a military wife raised in deep East Texas (where guns were part of everyday life, it was rare not to have family in the military, and the grim war stories from family elders were told at every gathering) I have to say I also see that there is indeed a need for war at times. It would be great if we could stop conflict just by preaching peace and love and human brotherhood but that's not a practical reality in a world as screwed up as ours.

I welcome the idea of my husband and brother, both Marines, being deployed to a foreign nation to risk their lives for people I have never met because I know they're also doing it for my daughter here at home. I would be ashamed if they didn't make an effort to help those less fortunate than us, if they had cringed at the responsibility handed to them.

I take comfort that so many terrorists and evil men and women are dying daily at the hands of our military. How many innocent people have we saved by removing the terrorists, the real murderers? Is an evil and heartless human responsible for acts of true hatred against others a life really worth saving? I don't think so. If there is a rotten apple in the barrell don't you pick it out and throw it away before the rest of the apples rot too?

I know I am probably going to be blasted for all eternity for this little posting, but that's how I feel. I just don't believe peace works in our time, not as long as people like Saddam and Kim Jong II (North Korea ~ the Dear Leader) are allowed to live. Don't get me wrong, fellow poets, I do wish we lived in a peaceful world, and I think someday it may possible. I just happen to believe we have a very long way to go and we are going to spill more blood getting there. I would just rather it be theirs than ours.

There is no easy way around this kind of stuff. It's supposed to make us sick and weary, it's supposed to be something that moves us and makes us want to change things. It should always be the driving force behind every cartridge slammed home on a battlefield. I don't think we give ourselves, as a nation, enough credit. We do a whole hell of a lot for this world despite our failings and short comings, despite what our critics say, and that's not something we should ever forget. Take pride in it!

Look, I probably shouldn't even be saying all this stuff. I recognize that my view is not a popular one, and I don't particulaly care that most of the people I have met on here won't be with me on this one, that's ok. Guess I had to let it all out though, I wouldn't feel right not saying my piece. Here's my previously posted war poem, it hasn't been commented on yet, I have a feeling I know why (but it's ok )

Family in Arms

Don't you be ashamed of your views, Posty, or hesitant to voice them. I, too, have not been able to come to terms w/ this war. I get really worked up over Bush's antics, but then I think of WW2, and think... "What if we hadn't gotten involved?"

 

[flyguy69]

Re: Been gone for a while, so...

...Look, I probably shouldn't even be saying all this stuff. I recognize that my view is not a popular one, and I don't particulaly care that most of the people I have met on here won't be with me on this one, that's ok. Guess I had to let it all out though, I wouldn't feel right not saying my piece. Here's my previously posted war poem, it hasn't been commented on yet, I have a feeling I know why (but it's ok )

Family in Arms

I hope you never hide your voice, Posty! It is essential that we hear each other, and yours is such an eloquent expression of the soldier family that it forces everyone to consider the human element on both ends of the barrel.

I have two cousins that were in Iraq, both mercifully home as of last week.

Interestingly, their perspectives are quite different. One is quite certain he was there for the right reasons and doing the right thing, the other is much more guarded about his experience. The former spent his time among other soldiers, the latter worked alongside Iraqis.

My poem (now in my sig line) is not so much a pro- or anti- war statement as much as a comment on the disconnection we feel from the realities of war. That disconnection can be physical, psychological, emotional, intellectual, etc. and can exist in a coffee shop or on the battlefield, but it deprives us of the understanding neccessary to evaluate such a grave course of action.

A soldier's responsibility is to follow orders. A citizen's responsibility is make certain those orders are good ones.

I am thankful for your husband's and your brother's commitment to their noble occupation, and owe them my dedication to keep it so.

 

[champagne1982]

This poem hasn't garnered as many comments as I'd thought it would either.

I wrote this to illustrate how a young soldier must feel when faced with popular opinion amongst her comrades and pressured by the pacifist/peacetime morality existing back home.

Morality In A War Zone

I am glad postobitum also writes about the real feelings of people closer to the hearts of those who serve their nation. My dad's a pilot. He's not on the ground amidst the terror and the fire he unleashes, but that doesn't lessen the degree of emotional backlash he experiences after the mission is flown.

First he's Canadian, so that would explain it as far as Iraq goes, but remember, my country's soldiers are currently in Afghanistan, Somalia, Liberia ... Heaven forbid he ever need to take part in these operations, as he did in the Gulf War.