Canadian Harems

[R. Richard]

The following comes from an article in the Toronto Sun. Let me summarize the situation. I, Muhammed Muslim, immigrate to Canada. I have four wives. Each wife has a child. I can get a $1,500 CDN per month welfare payment for each wife and child. Thus, I Muhammed Muslim, can receive the sum of $6,000 CDN per month or $72,000 per year for sitting on my ass and letting my wives keep house.

Now, I Muhammed Muslim, can't get a job that pays $72,000 per year, especially since I have limited English/French proficiency. Thus, I am better off sitting at home and letting the rest of the Canadians support me.

My wives can't really get an sort of regular employment, since they are Muslim wives and not really allowed out in society. However, they can get high paid jobs that the Canadian government will not let them take.

I, Joe Canadian, am paying the sum of $72,000 yearly for pussy. However, I myself, am not getting any of that pussy.

I submit, Joe Canadian, you are insane. You are paying $72,000 per year for pussy, despite the fact that you told me that you never pay for pussy. Yet, you are not getting the pussy you are paying for. Joe Canadian, you need to have someone sane manage your financial affairs, as you are clearly not capable.

Not only could the extra three Muslim welfare recipient wives earn enough to support Muhammed Muslim, they could also provide jobs for Canadian men currently on welfare. "Hot pussy! Getcher' hot pussy here! Has you met my woman? Damn right I work. I'm a pimp!"

Comment?

Harems pay off for Muslims
Islamic leaders: Hundreds in GTA get extra welfare for polygamous unions

Hundreds of GTA Muslim men in polygamous marriages -- some with a harem of wives -- are receiving welfare and social benefits for each of their spouses, thanks to the city and province, Muslim leaders say.

Mumtaz Ali, president of the Canadian Society of Muslims, said wives in polygamous marriages are recognized as spouses under the Ontario Family Law Act, providing they were legally married under Muslim laws abroad.

"Polygamy is a regular part of life for many Muslims," Ali said yesterday. "Ontario recognizes religious marriages for Muslims and others."

He estimates "several hundred" GTA husbands in polygamous marriages are receiving benefits. Under Islamic law, a Muslim man is permitted to have up to four spouses.

However, city and provincial officials said legally a welfare applicant can claim only one spouse. Other adults living in the same household can apply for welfare independently.

The average recipient with a child can receive about $1,500 monthly, city officials said.

In addressing the issue of polygamous marriages, the preamble to the Ontario Family Law Act states: "In the definition of 'spouse,' a reference to marriage includes a marriage that is actually or potentially polygamous, if it was celebrated in a jurisdiction whose system of law recognizes it as valid. R.S.O. 1990, c. F.3, s. 1 (2)."

"There are many people in the community who are taking advantage of this," Ali said. "This is a law and there's nothing wrong with it."

Immigration officials said yesterday that polygamous marriages aren't allowed in Canada, but that contradicts the provincial law.

"Canada is a very liberal-minded country," Ali said. "Canada is way ahead of Britain in this respect."

He said Britain recently began permitting husbands to collect benefits for each of their wives.

The British government recently admitted that nearly a thousand men are living legally with multiple wives in Britain. Although the families are entitled to claim social security for each wife, the department for work and pensions said it has not counted how many are on benefits.

In Canada, Ali said, the man and his main wife and children enter Canada as landed immigrants. The other spouses are sponsored or arrive as visitors to join their husband to share one home.

POSSIBLE FRAUD

The families receiving benefits didn't want their identities released because it can lead to questions by authorities on how they entered Canada and can mean an end to their benefits, Ali said.

Brenda Nesbitt, the city's director of social services, said benefits are only paid to one spouse and names and addresses are cross-checked for possible fraud.

"There may be polygamous cases we are not aware off," Nesbitt said yesterday. "They can apply as single people and we won't know."

Ontario Community and Social Services spokesman Erike Botond said a social assistance benefit may only include one spouse. "Other adults residing in the same dwelling place as a recipient and their spouse may apply as individuals."

"I can assure you that polygamy is not recognized under immigration legislation," immigration spokesman Karen Shadd-Evelyn said yesterday. "A conjugal relationship, whether involving marriage or a common-law partnership, must be exclusive."

Councillor Rob Ford said taxpayers' money should be spent on education and schools instead.

"This is wrong," Ford said yesterday. "They should put a stop to this immediately."

 

[3113]

So. There's fraud going on. And?

I'm sure enough Canadians, outraged by this, will pass a bill or find a way to plug up the hole in this law. That's the way things work. Laws exist, they have holes in them, people take advantage of that hole, and someone, we all hope, plugs those holes so that the fraud can't continue.

My belief is that if a man is going to have more than one wife (or a wife more than one husband) that they should work out how to support those wives. THAT afterall IS Islamic law. Mohammad said it: "Don't take more wives than you can afford." So if this guy can't afford them, he's breaking his own religious law. Objectively and legally, I see nothing wrong with having more partners, religiously or otherwise, but working out how you're going to feed all those adult mouths is up to you. You only get help to feed one. That goes for any religion with more than one wife. And there are plenty, outside of Islamic society, that believe that a man should have more than one and that they should do nothing other than stay at home.

So, if this is about slamming a religion, hey, I'm with you you there. But why slam only one? Can't we slam all the ones who believe that women shouldn't work? And if it's about slamming liberals for being tolerant of religion, hey, can we slam conservatives for being tolerant of only one religion and letting it get away with shit they wouldn't let any other religion get away with? Like brochures saying how the Grand Canyon was created by Noah's Flood?

Or was this a not-so-subtle way of commenting on the welfare system? I'm sure a woman who can't find work and has to support a child with welfare is as pissed at Ali as anyone for taking advantage of this system.

Just making sure you didn't have any hidden agenda in posting this, R.R., other than to point out one of many fucked up examples of fucked up fraud that happens all over the world.

 

[Liar]

So...


Household A (as in Abdullah):

Abdullah, his 4 wives and 5 kids
5 kids, 5 adults, 10 people




Household B (as in Bob):

Bob, his wife and their 1 kid
Bob's brother and his wife and their 2 kids
Bob's widowed sister and her 2 kids
5 kids, 5 adults, 10 people



Would the households get different amounts of welfare (provided they are otherwise equally qualified)? Would A, with the current Canadian situation, get more than B?

If not, what are you bitching about?

 

[3113]

If not, what are you bitching about?

He's bitching about Abi's being given money to fuck four women. You have to admit that's not the fact in the other household...or if Bob is fucking his brother, sister and sister-in-law as well as his wife then I want to see it as a story in the incest cat

 

[R. Richard]

Actually, I do have a hidden agenda. My hidden agenda doesn't have to do with the Muslim religion as such, but with any religion that supports polygny.

The average man, in western civilization, can't really support multiple wives. The Mormen men who have multiple wives mostly support them via welfare. The Muslim men who have multiple wives mostly support them via welfare. We have a local asshole who has more than one wife [the exact number changes pretty much on a daily basis.] He gets welfare for at least two wives and is also peddling their asses on the street.

The idea of multiple wives among Muslims was due to the fact that there were quite a few more women than men in early Arabian society, mainly due to the incessant desert warfare that kept the male population trimmed back. In order to provide husbands for the women, polygyny was established. Polygyny worked in Bedouin society, it does not work in modern society.

I am not at all concerned about the moral, ethical or religious considerations of polygyny. I am concerned about the financial considerations of polygyny. I am concerned about the welfare fraud that almost inevitably follows polygyny.

 

[R. Richard]

So...

Household A (as in Abdullah):

Abdullah, his 4 wives and 5 kids
5 kids, 5 adults, 10 people


Household B (as in Bob):

Bob, his wife and their 1 kid
Bob's brother and his wife and their 2 kids
Bob's widowed sister and her 2 kids
5 kids, 5 adults, 10 people

Would the households get different amounts of welfare (provided they are otherwise equally qualified)? Would A, with the current Canadian situation, get more than B?

If not, what are you bitching about?

Liar, I will go slowly. Please read caerfully. In the case of Abdullah's household, there is one presumably employable adult. Abdullah's wives are really not employable because of his/their religious beliefs and customs. Since there is no way in Hell that Abdullah is going to start at a job that pays $72,000 CDN per year, you have a case of institutionalized welfare fraud.

In the case of Bob, there are three presumably employable adults in the household. One of the adults can be taking classes/training that will lead to a job that will get that adult and children off welfare and into the tax slavery under which most of us live. The other adult(s) in the house can take care of the children. When we finally get down to the last adult and child/children living on welfare, there are two working adults paying into the support system. The remaining adult can be trained for a job, because he/she doesn't have welfare payments for ten (10) people to support one (1) household. Now, we have one Bob household, making $1,500 CDN per month, $18,000 CDN per year. It is conceivable, even likely that the Bob houshold adult can get a job that pays $18,000 CDN per year. There does remain the possibility of welfare fraud, but the incentive is much less.

 

[R. Richard]

He's bitching about Abi's being given money to fuck four women. You have to admit that's not the fact in the other household...or if Bob is fucking his brother, sister and sister-in-law as well as his wife then I want to see it as a story in the incest cat

Good reply! However, I notice that you sort of tiptoed around the kids.

 

[Xelebes]

Quebecor's Toronto Sun is not a reliable source for information.

 

[maggot420]

Quebecor's Toronto Sun is not a reliable source for information.

But they have a daily sunshine girl.

 

[Liar]

Liar, I will go slowly. Please read caerfully. In the case of Abdullah's household, there is one presumably employable adult. Abdullah's wives are really not employable because of his/their religious beliefs and customs. Since there is no way in Hell that Abdullah is going to start at a job that pays $72,000 CDN per year, you have a case of institutionalized welfare fraud.

In the case of Bob, there are three presumably employable adults in the household. One of the adults can be taking classes/training that will lead to a job that will get that adult and children off welfare and into the tax slavery under which most of us live. The other adult(s) in the house can take care of the children. When we finally get down to the last adult and child/children living on welfare, there are two working adults paying into the support system. The remaining adult can be trained for a job, because he/she doesn't have welfare payments for ten (10) people to support one (1) household. Now, we have one Bob household, making $1,500 CDN per month, $18,000 CDN per year. It is conceivable, even likely that the Bob houshold adult can get a job that pays $18,000 CDN per year. There does remain the possibility of welfare fraud, but the incentive is much less.

So the issue is not polygamy, but employability. Dandy, Randy. So why didn't you just say so?

 

[R. Richard]

So the issue is not polygamy, but employability. Dandy, Randy. So why didn't you just say so?

Because, the women in polgyny households tend to be unemployable/employable only at very low wage jobs. In order for a woman to accept a part of a husband, it sems to be necessary to take her self worth away. However, that ignites a different, off topic debate.

 

[Guest]

edited

 

[R. Richard]

This is not fair at all. I could keep two men happy!


Maharat

Ah, but that is polyandry, not polygyny!

 

[R. Richard]

The main problem with polygyny is that there is an excess of boys, in normal modern world situations. The adult men can't really support multiple families, thus they live on welfare. The problem comes when a new set of girls/boys become available. The young boys can't compete with the adult men and they have no place in the society. When it costs more to maintain a boy than he brings in in welfare, the boy is dumped somewhere far enough away from the polygyny community that it is unlikely that he will come back.

In the meantime, the taxpayers get to support some asshole who is screwing multiple women that he can't support.

AFAIK, there are very few, if any, societies where polyandry is still practiced. In places where it was practiced, the 'queen mama' did not usually have sexual relations with her husbands. She simply controlled the land/cattle/whatever and exerted financial control over her husbands, who had another wife and supported same, along with the children.

 

[colddiesel]

This thread is a nonsense because it pre suposes that the normal(christian?) household commonly exists. it can readily be argued from the stats available in North America and Europe that the growing urban norm is for single males to have and breed with multiple partners and abandon them to the state. It is not a characteristic defined by religion and an inconvenient fact for R Richard is that the moslem is much less likely to abandon his family than the local non moslem.

It is also an inconvenient fact that in every country in the western world, immigrants including polygymous moslems impact the social welfare budget considerably less in $ terms than the native born.

 

[Liar]

Ah, but that is polyandry

Or pollyannism.

 

[drksideofthemoon]

The following comes from an article in the Toronto Sun. Let me summarize the situation. I, Muhammed Muslim, immigrate to Canada. I have four wives. Each wife has a child. I can get a $1,500 CDN per month welfare payment for each wife and child. Thus, I Muhammed Muslim, can receive the sum of $6,000 CDN per month or $72,000 per year for sitting on my ass and letting my wives keep house.

Now, I Muhammed Muslim, can't get a job that pays $72,000 per year, especially since I have limited English/French proficiency. Thus, I am better off sitting at home and letting the rest of the Canadians support me.

My wives can't really get an sort of regular employment, since they are Muslim wives and not really allowed out in society. However, they can get high paid jobs that the Canadian government will not let them take.

I, Joe Canadian, am paying the sum of $72,000 yearly for pussy. However, I myself, am not getting any of that pussy.

I submit, Joe Canadian, you are insane. You are paying $72,000 per year for pussy, despite the fact that you told me that you never pay for pussy. Yet, you are not getting the pussy you are paying for. Joe Canadian, you need to have someone sane manage your financial affairs, as you are clearly not capable.

Not only could the extra three Muslim welfare recipient wives earn enough to support Muhammed Muslim, they could also provide jobs for Canadian men currently on welfare. "Hot pussy! Getcher' hot pussy here! Has you met my woman? Damn right I work. I'm a pimp!"

Comment?

The same practice occurs in Utah, Arizona, and Nevada by the polygamist groups that have broken away from the LDS church.

Wives 2 though whatever get single parent benefits for food stamps, WIC, and welfare for themselves and their children. You start adding that up for 5 or 6 wives, and about 20 children, and it can add up to a substantial monthly sum. They're quite proud of the fraud they commit, they refer to it as "Bleeding the beast."

 

[R. Richard]

This thread is a nonsense because it pre suposes that the normal(christian?) household commonly exists. it can readily be argued from the stats available in North America and Europe that the growing urban norm is for single males to have and breed with multiple partners and abandon them to the state. It is not a characteristic defined by religion and an inconvenient fact for R Richard is that the moslem is much less likely to abandon his family than the local non moslem.

I lived in NYC. There are any number of five and six generation welfare families in NYC. However, the welfare reform act began to kick in and now the NYC locals know that there aint gonna' be a lifetime free ride.

As to a Muslim being less likely to abandon his family than a non-Muslim, I am not surprised. If you are an immigrant Muslim, you are more or less forced to live in an immigrant Muslim community. Sooner or later, the community will find out that you have abandoned your family.

It is also an inconvenient fact that in every country in the western world, immigrants including polygymous moslems impact the social welfare budget considerably less in $ terms than the native born.

I challenge your 'fact.' It may be that total welfare expeditures are greater for immigrants, since there are more native born. However, the per person expenditures are higher for immigrants. In the western USA area where I live, there is a major problem with immigrants being treated prety much exclusively in Emergency Rooms. The immigrants can't check into a hospital without a major danger of being deported. Thus they let the hospital do what is needed
to keep them alive and then they have immigrant friends take themn home.

 

[R. Richard]

The same practice occurs in Utah, Arizona, and Nevada by the polygamist groups that have broken away from the LDS church.

Wives 2 though whatever get single parent benefits for food stamps, WIC, and welfare for themselves and their children. You start adding that up for 5 or 6 wives, and about 20 children, and it can add up to a substantial monthly sum. They're quite proud of the fraud they commit, they refer to it as "Bleeding the beast."

You don't need to tell me about the problem. I live in the western USA. I have been assigned to deal with the specific problem of polygamists abandoning boy children. However, the scumbags don't like my methods. [Also, the polygamists don't like my methods.] The scumbags have no methods of their own to deal with the problem, however, they are to a scumbag, critics.

 

[colddiesel]

I challenge your 'fact.' It may be that total welfare expeditures are greater for immigrants, since there are more native born. However, the per person expenditures are higher for immigrants. In the western USA area where I live, there is a major problem with immigrants being treated prety much exclusively in Emergency Rooms. The immigrants can't check into a hospital without a major danger of being deported. Thus they let the hospital do what is needed
to keep them alive and then they have immigrant friends take themn home.

I guess you can challenge as much as you like but it won't change the facts. Immigrants everywhere impact social security and medical services less than the 'native'people. Older people use medical services disproportionately and the reason immigrants use less is because they are a select group from their previous societies. They are select in that they have the gumption to get off their tails and go overseas for work and a better life. I have been a migrant first to the USA for ten years and now in Australia (and here 28% of the entire population was born overseas) I have never sought any social welfare in either country but in fact for new migrants it is very difficult to get. Any check of academic studies of migrant groups will support my contention that migrant use less than locals from government suport.

Australia even has 225000 immigrants from the USA( I wonder if they are politicals!!)

 

[Guest]

edited

 

[R. Richard]

Discrimination!

No, definition!

 

[Guest]

edited

 

[CharleyH]

The following comes from an article in the Toronto Sun. Let me summarize the situation. I, Muhammed Muslim, immigrate to Canada. I have four wives. Each wife has a child. I can get a $1,500 CDN per month welfare payment for each wife and child. Thus, I Muhammed Muslim, can receive the sum of $6,000 CDN per month or $72,000 per year for sitting on my ass and letting my wives keep house.

Now, I Muhammed Muslim, can't get a job that pays $72,000 per year, especially since I have limited English/French proficiency. Thus, I am better off sitting at home and letting the rest of the Canadians support me.

My wives can't really get an sort of regular employment, since they are Muslim wives and not really allowed out in society. However, they can get high paid jobs that the Canadian government will not let them take.

I, Joe Canadian, am paying the sum of $72,000 yearly for pussy. However, I myself, am not getting any of that pussy.

I submit, Joe Canadian, you are insane. You are paying $72,000 per year for pussy, despite the fact that you told me that you never pay for pussy. Yet, you are not getting the pussy you are paying for. Joe Canadian, you need to have someone sane manage your financial affairs, as you are clearly not capable.

Not only could the extra three Muslim welfare recipient wives earn enough to support Muhammed Muslim, they could also provide jobs for Canadian men currently on welfare. "Hot pussy! Getcher' hot pussy here! Has you met my woman? Damn right I work. I'm a pimp!"

Comment?

Yeah. Your an American.

 

[elsol]

*yawn*

So if all the wives work... you're good with it.

Or if he actually CAN afford them... gotta say, that's cool, 'cause I bet some cats would rather go the multiple wives way than divorce.