Calling All Techies!

[In Anticipation]

I thought it was overkill, too, but the reason we went to the linux box setup was we kept having trouble with (wired) routers overheating and dropping our connection. Right before we switched, it was happening so frequently that we were resetting the modem and router more than not, and often having trouble doing anything online at all. We happened to have an extra box available, so we set that up and only had to think about it after a power outage.

It might be selfish and un-PC, but the extra power usage is worth not having the hassle of one dropped connection after another. And, yes, I realize this newer setup isn't trouble-free, but what's happening now pales in comparison to the problems we had with the actual router.

Hubby's on his way home and has some ideas on fixing the current issues. If that doesn't work, he'll go through the suggestions made here that he hasn't tried already.

My 3Com wireless gateway and motorola cable modem have been sitting here for the last 4 years happily connecting all and sundry to the internet, apart from occasional interruptions courtesy of the cable company . . . and that's only happened three times.

What make was your router?

 

[kindashy]

What make was your router?

The way she described it, it was a software router, probably using one of the Linux packages, not a hardware router like you and I have.

Back to the original problem. Now that I had some time on sleep on this, I came up with following. Get another hard drive (we will call it Max), make an image of the old hard drive (call it Agata), put the image of Agata on the Max. Put the Max back into the computer that you used for router before.

 

[In Anticipation]

The way she described it, it was a software router, probably using one of the Linux packages, not a hardware router like you and I have.

Back to the original problem. Now that I had some time on sleep on this, I came up with following. Get another hard drive (we will call it Max), make an image of the old hard drive (call it Agata), put the image of Agata on the Max. Put the Max back into the computer that you used for router before.

I meant the router that gave so much trouble, before they switched to using the linux box . . .

 

[SweetErika]

I_A, I don't know what brand(s) the router(s) (I think we tried more than one) were. My husband has had the same problems with normal routers at his job, though, and both overheating and dropping the connection are fairly common problems with many brands, IIRC. Because we already had the first linux box, and believed it would be more reliable in general, we opted to set it up instead of buying a relatively expensive new router. And we made the same choice in switching to the laptop when the hard drive on the box started having issues - it was $25 for another card vs. $60+ for a new router (and that's a low estimate, I think) that could very well have the same connection problems.

Plus, playing with linux provides Hubby with a lot of entertainment and helps him learn new skills. That's very valuable to him, so I go along with it. If he can't resolve these issues in a reasonable amount of time, I'll likely put my foot down. For now though, I believe he's making progress, this is more of an annoyance than anything, and he's learning, so I'm willing to wait to see if he can fix it.

Back to the original problem. Now that I had some time on sleep on this, I came up with following. Get another hard drive (we will call it Max), make an image of the old hard drive (call it Agata), put the image of Agata on the Max. Put the Max back into the computer that you used for router before.

This is what he's going to work on tomorrow, I think.

 

[In Anticipation]

Have re-read the thread now, I suspect it's an MTU thing. However, Vista tries to make it's own adjustments, ignores any manual changes you may try etc.

I googled it a bit, but it's hellishly complicated, I think others have this problem.

You mentioned installing a new network card in a laptop, that's a laptop you're using as the router right?

 

[SweetErika]

Have re-read the thread now, I suspect it's an MTU thing. However, Vista tries to make it's own adjustments, ignores any manual changes you may try etc.

I googled it a bit, but it's hellishly complicated, I think others have this problem.

You mentioned installing a new network card in a laptop, that's a laptop you're using as the router right?

Yep, and as I said, the card's manufacturer says it's Vista compatible.

I really should have my husband talk to you guys directly. I know enough to get around and fix stuff with clear, step-by-step directions, but I may very well be adding more confusion to the mix at this point.

 

[bighornedsatyr]

The way she described it, it was a software router, probably using one of the Linux packages, not a hardware router like you and I have.

Back to the original problem. Now that I had some time on sleep on this, I came up with following. Get another hard drive (we will call it Max), make an image of the old hard drive (call it Agata), put the image of Agata on the Max. Put the Max back into the computer that you used for router before.

SweetErika already said her husband was going to work on that, but that may be more trouble than it's worth. Just copying an OS image from one computer to another is not simple. There is a lot of unique hardware, especially on a laptop, which won't be configured properly. Hopefully, he'll be able to get a text prompt and can figure out how to reconfigure the video, touchpad, and wireless.

SweetErika, did you try my suggestion of connecting with a wire? Does the problem still occur? It could be the issue with using the wireless card as an access point. They're not sold to be capable of that, so that's one possible failure mode.

I'm curious why your old routers kept overheating. I've never heard of people having that problem, and some people overclock theirs. Maybe you got a bad device.

 

[SweetErika]

SweetErika already said her husband was going to work on that, but that may be more trouble than it's worth. Just copying an OS image from one computer to another is not simple. There is a lot of unique hardware, especially on a laptop, which won't be configured properly. Hopefully, he'll be able to get a text prompt and can figure out how to reconfigure the video, touchpad, and wireless.

SweetErika, did you try my suggestion of connecting with a wire? Does the problem still occur? It could be the issue with using the wireless card as an access point. They're not sold to be capable of that, so that's one possible failure mode.

I'm curious why your old routers kept overheating. I've never heard of people having that problem, and some people overclock theirs. Maybe you got a bad device.

I didn't understand what you meant before, but you're right, it did work when we plugged it into the router directly, which told us it was a wireless problem.

Hubby reset the firmware and a bunch of settings a couple of times, and everything appears to be working now.

Hopefully all will continue to go smoothly. *knocks on wood*

Thank you for your help, everyone!

 

[StonetheCrow077]

I just read this thread... little intersting TS skills... but, a simple problem was made hard when it shouldn't have been...

When Trouble Shooting...

1. Always start with your connections... ALWAYS!
(if you have any kind of wireless connection in your topology, replace it with hard wire until your done)
2. Check your Hardware.
3. Worry about your software afterwards.

If you TS in those orders, you will always save time if you don't know what you are dealing with.



BTW... that topology... hope it works for you... sounds interesting to say the least... but, wow, is that an overkill... just my two cents...

I'd personally run modem to firewall to a Dell PowerConnect 2216 Switch.... that would give you 16 ports... you could take your Linux box out as your router and set it up stand alone... hubby could play on it all the time... you'd save electricity and have fewer problems in the long run...

Unless he just wants to play with Linux and Vista on the same network...

 

[SweetErika]

Well, it's actually not that simple of a problem. I'm having trouble today again. It might have had something to do with my computer shutting down last night. Resetting the wireless isn't working today.

I'm going to make a recovery disk tonight and go to XP tomorrow. Hopefully I won't have these problems, but even if I do, I'll be happier with XP. I should have just put it on when I got this computer.

 

[SweetErika]

As near as I can tell, disconnecting from the wireless, unplugging the wireless router and cable modem, then restarting the modem, wireless and re-connecting to the wireless on my computer, resolves the problem with gmail for a while at least.

Any ideas on why that helps?

 

[SubNebGuy]

I'd flush all DNS and IP's and let them start over.

that'll mean:
unplug the broadband modem for a full 60 seconds, then plug in and let it initialize
ditto for the router, done after the modem is reset

then in Windows, go to Run, type: cmd

at the command line you wanna type ipconfig /release
then ipconfig /renew
(i might be off on the syntax, but it'll tell you how to fix it)

then try again.

also be aware that Microsoft did a HORRID job coding the tcp/ip stack in Vista, causing it to open WAY too many connections. In Vista its really easy for the machine to use all available connections to hit one site, and that'll bomb out all other net activity.
so don't even attempt to download bitTorrents on Vista unless you don't plan to surf the net or check email.

 

[StonetheCrow077]

As near as I can tell, disconnecting from the wireless, unplugging the wireless router and cable modem, then restarting the modem, wireless and re-connecting to the wireless on my computer, resolves the problem with gmail for a while at least.

Any ideas on why that helps?

I haven't messed around with Vista enough to know for sure...

Did you turn off DHCP and make all the IP's static like was suggested?

Just sounds like Vista is having a hard time handling all the packets being transmitted throughout your network...

Placing that sniffer in intermediate areas of your network and doing a bit of research is actually a smart idea, too... you might need a crossover cable and the software... Ethereal is a very good sniffer... and it'll work with Windows and Linux...

But, I'm always a fan of doing things simple... I'd scrap the whole topology completely... there is not really any benefit of running that Linux box as a router for a home network...

 

[vladimir]

Wow, I am so glad that I'm not in your shoes right now

As a techie for over 20 years, I left the field a while ago, and switched on the pc side to an XP Pro box, so I could run games. I looked at Vista just as it was coming out, and decided that I'd had enough... I'm running a Macbook Pro on Intel chips and I could not possibly be happier. I connect seamlessly in virtually every enviroment I need to, from the house to the Library.. Wireless, wired, whatever...

I would follow many of the tech suggestions here, isolate the traffic in and out across your network card, try throttling down the speed on the Vista side, and check the hardware issues. Firewall rules can be really tricky, but if you are getting things to talk on TBird, likely its not the firewall anymore. Linux is pretty good at network things, so if you're getting the traffic through, then it has to be either SW(Vista) or HW(network card not talking to the SW)

Hope any of this helps..

When new computer time comes, and you don't want to mess around with these kinds of issues anymore, get a mac... For a user, very easy, and holds its resale value too. Flame on peeps if you like...

 

[StonetheCrow077]

As a techie for over 20 years, I left the field a while ago, and switched on the pc side to an XP Pro box, so I could run games. I looked at Vista just as it was coming out, and decided that I'd had enough... I'm running a Macbook Pro on Intel chips and I could not possibly be happier. I connect seamlessly in virtually every enviroment I need to, from the house to the Library.. Wireless, wired, whatever...

I would follow many of the tech suggestions here, isolate the traffic in and out across your network card, try throttling down the speed on the Vista side, and check the hardware issues. Firewall rules can be really tricky, but if you are getting things to talk on TBird, likely its not the firewall anymore. Linux is pretty good at network things, so if you're getting the traffic through, then it has to be either SW(Vista) or HW(network card not talking to the SW)

Hope any of this helps..

When new computer time comes, and you don't want to mess around with these kinds of issues anymore, get a mac... For a user, very easy, and holds its resale value too. Flame on peeps if you like...

haha Personally, I am not a big fan of Mac... but, I won't flame...

 

[SweetErika]

We've also been having problems with our Vonage phone since this weekend. I can receive calls, but often have trouble calling out. I get a dial tone, but the calls won't go through unless I reset the phone and sometimes the modem.

So, that tells me the trouble likely goes beyond the wireless and back to the modem. (Plus, resetting the wireless router doesn't always fix my gmail problems - I often have to reset the modem several times, too.) I'm going to trade this modem in for a newer one (it won't cost me anything) and see what happens.

The linuxbox may be overkill, Stone, but it's worked well until now, costs us almost nothing, is relatively easy to fix and doesn't use that much power. If we can't resolve the problems we may consider going to something else, but there's no point in doing that if we can get this setup working as smoothly as it did two weeks ago. Unfortunately, my husband just hasn't had that much time to work on it, but he should be able to do more troubleshooting this weekend if the problems persist when I switch to XP and get a new modem.

 

[StonetheCrow077]

We've also been having problems with our Vonage phone since this weekend. I can receive calls, but often have trouble calling out. I get a dial tone, but the calls won't go through unless I reset the phone and sometimes the modem.

So, that tells me the trouble likely goes beyond the wireless and back to the modem. (Plus, resetting the wireless router doesn't always fix my gmail problems - I often have to reset the modem several times, too.) I'm going to trade this modem in for a newer one (it won't cost me anything) and see what happens.

The linuxbox may be overkill, Stone, but it's worked well until now, costs us almost nothing, is relatively easy to fix and doesn't use that much power. If we can't resolve the problems we may consider going to something else, but there's no point in doing that if we can get this setup working as smoothly as it did two weeks ago. Unfortunately, my husband just hasn't had that much time to work on it, but he should be able to do more troubleshooting this weekend if the problems persist when I switch to XP and get a new modem.

Good luck... hope you didn't take that as me being critical... just stating that's what I'd do... but, everyone has their own personall choices...

 

[cd1_christine]

That may be your problem....

The card we put in the router is a WIRED Trendnet "32-bit Gigabit CardBus PC Card" (model TEG-PCSUSR).

Trendnet makes the biggest pieces of shit network hardware I've ever seen in my years of being a computer tech. I'm not saying for sure that's what it is, but I'd swap this card out for something....anything else, just on principle. If it's not causing your problem now, there's probably a 75% chance that it will be causing problems within 6 months.

CD

 

[cd1_christine]

Just copying an OS image from one computer to another is not simple. There is a lot of unique hardware, especially on a laptop, which won't be configured properly. Hopefully, he'll be able to get a text prompt and can figure out how to reconfigure the video, touchpad, and wireless.

Copying an image like this doesn't work on Windows, but on Linux, it does, for the most part. Especially in the case of a custom firewall distro like this.
There will be no video to configure, as the whole thing will run as a text prompt on the console, and web GUI for configuration.
The touchpad is irrelevant when there's no GUI on the console.
Wireless should be a matter of rerunning the setup script from the console on any self-respecting firewall distro. Unless, of course, it's LFS (Linux from Scratch), in which case he should already know more than most people here....

Oh, and kindashy.....if I posted my home network topology and everybody compared it to yours, there'd be a lot of melting brains on Lit.
Consider this:
11 computers (including my router), 6 subnets, 3 VPN's, isolated wireless, and dozens of custom firewall rules. And that doesn't include any customer machines, or any loaner/test equipment that I may have running at any point.

If you want me to do a graphic, I will, but don't say I didn't warn you.

CD

 

[SweetErika]

I did swap the cable modem out for a newer one today, then we rearranged some of the network components, and both the phone and my internet seem to be working now. We'll see if it lasts, but everything is looking good at this point.

Now I just have to back up my files on here and make the switch to XP. The trouble is worth the improved performance I'll get. It's the stupid stuff, like Firefox freezing when it shouldn't and my desktop taking ages to load sometimes that make me dissatisfied overall. I know Vista is supposed to be more secure and all that, but we've never had a problem with security on XP, and I've yet to see any features in Vista Home/Basic that I like better than XP.

Stone, I didn't take offense to your comment, I was just conveying our perspective.

We'll take your thoughts on TrendNet under advisement, CD. I know you have a lot of experience and really respect your opinion. This particular card got really good reviews on NewEgg, especially for Linux, so I think that's why Hubby chose it (at Fry's though, since we needed it before the HD in the old box crapped out and left us with nothing). This Encore card has received even more positive reviews and is less expensive. Do you have any experience with Encore products?

 

[kindashy]

Oh, and kindashy.....if I posted my home network topology and everybody compared it to yours, there'd be a lot of melting brains on Lit.
Consider this:

You have, conveniently, forgotten one itsy bitsy detail. I was not asking for topology of your network.

Erica had a problem, her network was not working, topology of her network would have helped us to help her.

 

[cd1_christine]

We'll take your thoughts on TrendNet under advisement, CD. I know you have a lot of experience and really respect your opinion. This particular card got really good reviews on NewEgg, especially for Linux, so I think that's why Hubby chose it (at Fry's though, since we needed it before the HD in the old box crapped out and left us with nothing). This Encore card has received even more positive reviews and is less expensive. Do you have any experience with Encore products?

Can't honestly say I've ever heard of Encore before. Maybe they're not sold in Canada? The only thing I'd be wary of from the reviews would be this comment:
"Not good at managing high demand bandwidth,"
That would be a dealbreaker for me, as I quite frequently max out my internet connection, and I'd need something rock solid at high usage. It depends on your needs, though, I suppose.

CD

 

[cd1_christine]

You have, conveniently, forgotten one itsy bitsy detail. I was not asking for topology of your network.

Erica had a problem, her network was not working, topology of her network would have helped us to help her.

I fully realize you weren't asking for my network. I offered it, to be a smartass.

It sounds like I may have hit a nerve, somehow, though. Didn't mean to piss anybody off. Sorry.

 

[kindashy]

I fully realize you weren't asking for my network. I offered it, to be a smartass.

It sounds like I may have hit a nerve, somehow, though. Didn't mean to piss anybody off. Sorry.

Nothing to be sorry for. I am just another smartass... making sure the world knows who I am.