Caesar is better than Christ and Judas is better than Caesar

[KingOrfeo]

Stand Up For Judas!

 

[Tryharder62]

 

[KingOrfeo]

I will name him Judas! And I will squeeze him and hug him and pat him and pet him . . .

 

[Tryharder62]

I will name him Jesus and teach him the ways of my people!

 

[beetlebum]

i'd call him cat, and let him/her live free of unnecessary labels.

 

[Tryharder62]

Ceasar is screwed.

 

[LiFeNdEaTh]

lol..*CLICKS

 

[KingOrfeo]

My point (and I'm basing this on Rosselson's take, see OP link, which is very, very different from Reza Aslan's) is that Caesar was a ruler and Judas was a rebel and that makes each of them more valuable and useful than an otherworldly mystic trying to save your afterlife-soul.

Rosselson's lyrics:

The Romans were the masters
When Jesus walked the land
In Judea and in Galilee
They ruled with an iron hand
The poor were sick with hunger
And the rich were clothed in splendour
And the rebels, whipped and crucified
Hung rotting as a warning
And Jesus knew the answer -
"Give unto Caesar what is Caesar's"
Said, "Love your enemies"
But Judas was a Zealot and he
Wanted to be free
"Resist", he said, "the Romans' tyranny"

So stand up, stand up for Judas
And the cause that Judas served
It was Jesus who betrayed the poor with his word

Now Jesus was a conjuror,
Miracles were his game
He fed the hungry thousands
And they glorified his name
He cured the lame and leper
He calmed the wind and the weather
And the wretched flocked to touch him
So their troubles would be taken
And Jesus knew the answer -
"All you who labour, all you who suffer
Only believe in me"
But Judas sought a world where no-one
Starved or begged for bread
"The poor are always with us", Jesus said

Now Jesus sowed division
Where none had been before
Not the slave against the master
But the poor against the poor
Caused son to rise up against father
And brother to fight against brother
For "He that is not with me
Is against me" was his teaching
Said Jesus, "I am the answer
You unbelievers shall burn forever
Shall die in your sins"
"Not sheep or goats" said Judas but
"Together we may dare
Shake off the chains of tyranny we share"

Jesus stood upon the mountain
With a distance in his eyes
"I am the Way, the Life" he cried
"The Light that never dies
So renounce all earthly treasures
And pray to your heavenly father"
And he pacified the hopeless
With the hope of life eternal
Said Jesus, "I am the answer
And you who hunger only remember
Your reward's in heaven"
So Jesus preached the other world
But Judas wanted this
And he betrayed his master with a kiss

By sword and gun and crucifix
Christ's gospel has been spread
And two thousand cruel years have shown
The way that Jesus led
The heretics burned and tortured
And the butchering bloody Crusaders
The bombs and rockets sanctified
That rain down death from heaven
They followed Jesus, they knew the answer
All unbelievers must be believers
Or else be broken
"So place no trust in saviours"
Judas said, "for everyone
Must be to his or her own self a sun"

 

[Tryharder62]

My point (and I'm basing this on Rosselson's take, see OP link, which is very, very different from Reza Aslan's) is that Caesar was a ruler and Judas was a rebel and that makes each of them more valuable and useful than an otherworldly mystic trying to save your afterlife-soul.

Ceasar was a man and a dictator ruler. He was valuable if you wanted to be told how to live your life or die. Judas was a man. Rebel only in the sense that he claimed to be a dear friend of Jesus and a follower of his teaching while Jesus was popular, until the going got tough, and then he betrayed him for his own sake. Valuable if you only want to learn how to look out for yourself -for the here and now.

Jesus was a man and for this discussion let's not even consider "the otherworldy ruler." When he was here he did what he could as a man to help others. He also taught many. He gave people the choice to follow him or not. A person could decide to follow, it wasn't a dictatorship. He taught other people to help people, who taught other people to help people, and so on. Even if you think he was a wacko he believed in his teachings so much that he gave his life. He cared about others - not himself.

If you look at Ceasar, Judas, and Jesus and tell me I had to choose which one to follow, hands down I would choose Jesus.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpXMnY_t03M

 

[KingOrfeo]

Ceasar was a man and a dictator ruler. He was valuable if you wanted to be told how to live your life or die.

Reg: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh-water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

PFJ Member: Brought peace?

Reg: Oh, peace? SHUT UP!

Judas was a man. Rebel only in the sense that he claimed to be a dear friend of Jesus and a follower of his teaching while Jesus was popular, until the going got tough, and then he betrayed him for his own sake. Valuable if you only want to learn how to look out for yourself -for the here and now.

Thirty shekels ain't much. He didn't do it for the money. The Bible doesn't say why he betrayed Jesus and I've read a lot of interpretations; Rosselson's is as good as any, and a good reason it would have been, too.

Jesus was a man and for this discussion let's not even consider "the otherworldy ruler." When he was here he did what he could as a man to help others. He also taught many. He gave people the choice to follow him or not. A person could decide to follow, it wasn't a dictatorship.

Now Jesus sowed division
Where none had been before
Not the slave against the master
But the poor against the poor
Caused son to rise up against father
And brother to fight against brother
For "He that is not with me
Is against me" was his teaching
Said Jesus, "I am the answer
You unbelievers shall burn forever
Shall die in your sins"
"Not sheep or goats" said Judas but
"Together we may dare
Shake off the chains of tyranny we share"

 

[Tryharder62]

Thirty shekels ain't much. He didn't do it for the money. The Bible doesn't say why he betrayed Jesus and I've read a lot of interpretations; Rosselson's is as good as any, and a good reason it would have been, too.

Thirty shekels and his life. If you were one of twelve people who spent a couple years with Jesus wouldn't you think your ass was grass.

Listen to the song. You'll like it.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Listen to the song...You'll like it.

If you'll listen to Rosselson's.

 

[Tryharder62]

Honestly!!!!! I swear on the bible I did.

 

[Tryharder62]

Mine is also a good love song. A two for One.

 

[Tryharder62]

Pssst...the Roman empire got smooshed in around 476 AD. (thank you google)

Another song? Please!

 

[KingOrfeo]

Mine is also a good love song. A two for One.

Meh. Nothing about it grabs me. Cartman did better Christian rock. And if you compare it with Rosselson's and substitute "lalala" for the lyrics in both, Rosselson is far and away the better musician.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Pssst...the Roman empire got smooshed in around 476 AD. (thank you google)

And, for all its cruelty, left us a better legacy than Christ did.

Another song? Please!

Try this one.

I was going to post "Abeizer Coppe" but I can't find it online. Listen if you ever find it, it's haunting.

 

[Tryharder62]

I liked the music to it. I don't know much about this song writer just what I quickly looked up. I had to listen to it a couple times. I respect his right to present his beliefs. If you are going to make a point with your life - sing it to catchy folk song. He ended up writing a lot of children's books.

I couldn't find a la la song so I did an oo oo one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGa5rIOB28

 

[Tryharder62]

And, for all its cruelty, left us a better legacy than Christ did.

I'm Christ's legacy.

His legacy is tired and going nigh night. Interesting music that I never knew was out there.

Thanks for sharing!

 

[phrodeau]

I liked the music to it. I don't know much about this song writer just what I quickly looked up. I had to listen to it a couple times. I respect his right to present his beliefs. If you are going to make a point with your life - sing it to catchy folk song. He ended up writing a lot of children's books.

I couldn't find a la la song so I did an oo oo one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGa5rIOB28

A la la song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

 

[KingOrfeo]

I liked the music to it. I don't know much about this song writer just what I quickly looked up. I had to listen to it a couple times. I respect his right to present his beliefs. If you are going to make a point with your life - sing it to catchy folk song. He ended up writing a lot of children's books.

I couldn't find a la la song so I did an oo oo one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qGa5rIOB28

That's much better than the other one.

 

[Tryharder62]

A la la song?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Z4m4lnjxkY

I won't ask how you got to that song so quickly. Man it has it all ya ya oo oo ho ho.

BEST Accapella music - Pentatonix- Evolution of Music



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lExW80sXsHs

 

[KingOrfeo]

I won't ask how you got to that song so quickly. Man it has it all ya ya oo oo ho ho.

BEST Accapella music - Pentatonix- Evolution of Music



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lExW80sXsHs

You are a Christian -- now -- but there may be hope for you. You might be one of those rare souls worth saving from damnation in Heaven. Watch this. The whole hour and a half of it.

 

[Tryharder62]

You are a Christian -- now -- but there may be hope for you. You might be one of those rare souls worth saving from damnation in Heaven. Watch this. The whole hour and a half of it.

Wow, an hour and a half! I did it though, and feel I can never quite get that hour and a half back. I hope you will watch my two clips that are shorter. It is 2 clips about what can happen to your sanity if you associate with Bob. Unfortunately, it will lead to your home being a hot place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFtDTJ89Xyw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Gkes9CDBk

If you truely want to know how Bob can destroy your whole life the whole movie is on You tube. You showed me yours. Now I want to show you mine.

 

[KingOrfeo]

Wow, an hour and a half! I did it though, and feel I can never quite get that hour and a half back. I hope you will watch my two clips that are shorter. It is 2 clips about what can happen to your sanity if you associate with Bob. Unfortunately, it will lead to your home being a hot place.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFtDTJ89Xyw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8Gkes9CDBk

If you truely want to know how Bob can destroy your whole life the whole movie is on You tube. You showed me yours. Now I want to show you mine.

No, no! That's about Bob, not "Bob"!

The "Bob" that can be described is not the true "Bob."

As for the hot place -- as we say in the Church of the SubGenius: "The difference between Hell and Heaven is which end of the pitchfork you're on."

From Revelation X: The "Bob" Apocryphon, Chapter 8: "Heaven and Hell":

Everything written regarding Hell in all bibles, from the Zoroastrian up through Dante to Chick Comics, is literally true (except the name of the author). The traditional Hell exists, complete with Lake of Fire, demons, and eternal torment; they aren't lying about that. What they don't tell you is that only religious people go there.

It's a rare SubGenius that ends up in this Normal Hell, the lowest rung of the Ladder of Beforelives. THE HELL CLAUSE states that Hell is reserved for those who believe in it, and the lowest Circle is for those who think that if they don't believe in it, they'll go there. Hell is JHVH-1's revenge on those who insult His intelligence by thinking He is as simple-minded, cruel and vengeful as THEY are. The Devil's job is to pester them, to milk out every last drop of human faith and credence. Satan manages Hell, and it's a very busy place these days, but his responsibilities regarding earthly life cover only religious nuts. JHVH-1 assigned him to create some kind of secondary Hell on earth, so Satan devised the idea of multiple religions, all believing in his existence but hating each other even more than they hate him. (In the end it doesn't really matter whether those Normals are "good" or "bad" in life; Satan and JHVH-1 divvy up the souls 50-50, at random.)

<snip>

Pink Heaven (frequently misidentified as Christian Heaven or Islamic Paradise) is nothing but a more sophisticated Hell, with air conditioning. In many ways, it is far worse. At least in Hell, you know where you stand. The sheep in Heaven can't even guess how utterly doomed they truly are.

"Heaven" is only the second rung up the Beforelife ladder, and, like Hell, is reserved for believers. It consists of an absence not only of pain, but also of pleasure.

Great deal, huh? You're damned if you do, and damned if you don't. Disobedient souls burn in Hell forever, but obedient souls "belong to God." As if making you an employee all your LIFE wasn't bad enough, you're enslaved in the AFTERLIFE as well! You get all the joy of a fundamentalist's lifestyle, with no hope of release -- not even death!

<snip>

In "Heaven" there dwell certain hungry, rapacious predator spirits, called Theocrats, which vampirize the PPQF of weaker spirits in order to "live" forever at the expense of their victims.

"The Theocrats enslave other spirits to provide psychic energy, just as slaves or employees on Earth provide physical labor . . . They obtain these victims by posing as gods and persuading the religious believers to come to them voluntarily after death thinking they are entering "eternal bliss in Heaven."

"Many notorious tyrants, conquerors, evil religious leaders, black magicians and criminals have become Theocrats after death, but so have some saints and benign geniuses. Power corrupts and the prospect of achieving immortality corrupts even more. Many people with highly developed souls, whose earthly lives were lived quite ethically, chose to become Theocrats after death . . . This has been especially true for people who were religiously devout, then found out the horrible truth about the gods after death.

"The daily activities of a Fundamentalist Theocratic band organized as Heaven are similar to a church service as such sects hold them on Earth, except that they go on perpetually. The Theocrat in charge poses as the Lord God Jehovah, and subordinate Theocrats pose as Christ, various Angels and Apostles, and so forth. "God" quotes the same Biblical passages and preaches the same sermons as preachers in the same sect do on Earth, and the congregation joins in singing the same hymns. . . . The Theocratic leaders then channel this collective psychic energy . . . For instance, there are dead Christians who think they are in Heaven, sitting around the throne of Jehovah "eternally singing his praises," when they're really just his slaves and possibly his dinner as well. Now you understand the real significance of "Holy Communion."

". . . As fanatical belief in organized religion declines in the modern era, the Theocrats have even devised ways to persuade atheists and agnostics to join Theocratic bands after death. The most common is simply to invite them to join what appears to be a community of spirits that includes some of their previously-deceased relatives or friends, or some famous person they greatly admire . . . There are also "Heavens" whose "gods" claim to be politicians, movie stars, writers, scientists, rock stars, or even fictional characters."

-- excerpted from Kyle Griffith's War in Heaven.

The most insidiously cruel aspect of Pink Heaven/Normal Hell is that it's all self-inflicted punishment. Nothing happens to those souls that they didn't ask for, that wasn't self-devised down to the smallest detail. And nastiest of all, just as their store of anguish is about to be used up, they are TOLD they could escape if only they would stop believing -- BUT THAT ONLY MAKES IT WORSE. For, there they are, right in the thick of it, with flames searing their skin, or etheric vampires slowly devouring their very essence . . . so it's just a bit difficult NOT to believe in it.

But there is hope! Now you can save your soul from Heaven! Just send it with $30 for shipping & handling costs to:

The Church of the SubGenius
c/o Reverend Ivan Stang
P.O. Box 181417
Cleveland Heights, OH 44118-1417

Eternal salvation guaranteed -- OR TRIPLE YOUR MONEY BACK!