butters, dolf and hobbit

[mayfly13]

Unbelievable how you guys managed to hijack almost every unwashed cause out there, to turn it into Your cause:

butters: strongest advocate for AfricanAmericans on Lit.
dolf: used to admonish anyone whom she felt discriminated against Indians and others (incidentally, I found myself to be lectured by her about my racism too, for laughing when Skiddles called me a Paki)
now hobbit is bleeding all over Ukrainians

 

[oggbashan]

Hobbit bleeding over Ukrainians? The Ukrainians are really bleeding - soldiers, civilians, women and children as the result of a second Russian invasion of a country that was NO threat to them.

Russia's invasion is wholly unjustified and their war crimes are obvious - except to Russian media.

PS. I don't agree with Hobbit's politics; nor does he agree with mine. But he is right about Ukrainians.

 

[mayfly13]

Hobbit bleeding over Ukrainians? The Ukrainians are really bleeding - soldiers, civilians, women and children as the result of a second Russian invasion of a country that was NO threat to them.

Russia's invasion is wholly unjustified and their war crimes are obvious - except to Russian media.

PS. I don't agree with Hobbit's politics; nor does he agree with mine. But he is right about Ukrainians.

My real piss-off are actually Britain and America,
hobbit being merely my accidental punching bag:


It's because of THEM (via Churchill and Roosevelt), that Eastern European countries (Baltic included) were handed on a silver platter to Russia.
They bought half a century of worry-free from Imperialistic Russia for Western Europe, by selling out Eastern Europe.

There's a Polish writer Wichovvsky or something who wrote a genial article about it in Le Figaro, unfortunately I can no longer find it.

THAT's one of the discussions that needs to also take place.
Alongside 'why didn't America/Britain do more to prevent the invasion?'
They had a moral duty, given that they sold Ukraine out too, after ww2.

Instead of all those redundant pre-electoral talks from politicians.

 

[mayfly13]

A political analyst was describing the other day how during the Cold War, Americans were turning over to Soviets, the names of disidents who'd contacted their embassies.
Disidents that Americans had stirred up through fliers dropped from planes, and other modalities.

 

[mayfly13]

The guilt +/- shame coming from Biden, Boris Johnson and Merkel were so palpable.

You could sense it right from the start from their body language, the way they were averting their eyes when saying "the brave brave Ukrainians", "we'll help by doing X and Y".

I thought it was either because they were aware that they screwed the pooch by needling Russia with NATO,
or the guilt over -rightfully- not instituting the no fly zone,
or the shame that their industrial military complexes are profiteering.

But no, it wasn't that. The penny is dropping for many, after listening to Historians.
Current Western leaders harbour guilt over what Churchill/Roosevelt did, and shame that they have to do the dog&poney show to make their countries look like saviors.

 

[Champakian]

Unbelievable how you guys managed to hijack almost every unwashed cause out there, to turn it into Your cause:

butters: The cow goes MOO000ooo...
dolf: used to admonish anyone whom she felt discriminated against Indians and others (incidentally, I found myself to be lectured by her about my racism too, for laughing when Skiddles called me a Paki)
now hobbit is bleeding all over Ukrainians

 

[mayfly13]

lol
you...

 

[Champakian]

 

[oggbashan]

You can't blame Churchill for Yalta. He didn't want the USSR taking over Eastern Europe but by then he was a minor player between Roosevelt and Stalin. Stalin wanted Eastern Europe; Roosevelt wanted the USSR to keep fighting as they were the major force tackling Hitler's Germany. It was Roosevelt, NOT Churchill, who sold out eastern Europe.

 

[coati]

It appears that "mayfly" will not be supporting Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill in their next elections. He's holding the corpses of those two leaders responsible for Putin's murderous actions.

Meanwhile, back in 21st century reality...

 

[oggbashan]

It appears that "mayfly" will not be supporting Franklin Delano Roosevelt and Winston Churchill in their next elections. He's holding the corpses of those two leaders responsible for Putin's murderous actions.

Meanwhile, back in 21st century reality...

Churchill complained, rightly, that he was excluded from discussions between Stalin and Roosevelt about the future of Eastern Europe. They knew he disagreed with them.

 

[coati]

Churchill complained, rightly, that he was excluded from discussions between Stalin and Roosevelt about the future of Eastern Europe. They knew he disagreed with them.

Old news. American and British leaders have made a lot of mistakes in the past and both nations suffered consequences in the long run. None of that justifies the actions of Putin in this moment, nor does it affect the decisions about how to deal with those actions without escalating military conflict with an authoritarian jerk who holds nuclear weapons.

The current reality demands decisions based on considering the factors present in this century, not on factors present in the last century. Doing otherwise is doing what Putin did to justify his murderous invasion of Ukraine.

 

[mayfly13]

It would be cool if at one point, you guys would make some references to Gorbachev: the person who either engineered, or allowed the 1980's-1990's uprisings to happen.
Had Putin been in charge then not Gorbachev, we know how things would have ended with those uprisings, so all that national pride "we did it, we rebelled and showed them" is bullshit. You're aluve because Gorbi allowed you to do it.



How do you guys view Gorbachev?
---A person who genuinely wanted a different EE and Russia? (thus traitor to some, pacifist to others)
---Or still an imperialist and autocrat but who had more realism and common sense or humanity. And who saw Perestroikisation and de-USSR-isation as a temporary lifeline for a nation who was on the brink of disaster.

​

 

[Rightguide]

My real piss-off are actually Britain and America,
hobbit being merely my accidental punching bag:


It's because of THEM (via Churchill and Roosevelt), that Eastern European countries (Baltic included) were handed on a silver platter to Russia.
They bought half a century of worry-free from Imperialistic Russia for Western Europe, by selling out Eastern Europe.

There's a Polish writer Wichovvsky or something who wrote a genial article about it in Le Figaro, unfortunately I can no longer find it.

THAT's one of the discussions that needs to also take place.
Alongside 'why didn't America/Britain do more to prevent the invasion?'
They had a moral duty, given that they sold Ukraine out too, after ww2.

Instead of all those redundant pre-electoral talks from politicians.

We had a weak and dying President, as we have now, at the time of Yalta sellout.

 

[butters]

Unbelievable how you guys managed to hijack almost every unwashed cause out there, to turn it into Your cause:

butters: strongest advocate for AfricanAmericans on Lit.

so.. you're calling African-Americans an 'unwashed cause' now? and lumping every African-American issue i've commented on 'my cause'?

how strange. last i knew, African Americans are quite capable of voicing their own cause and i am free to celebrate improvements in equality and condemn injustices. it's kinda of normal to react that way.

please do better in your sad attempts at relevance. thnx

 

[ll74]

Somebody is butthurt and needs a hug

 

[mayfly13]

On the other hand, I just listened to an EE historian who asked his listeners to be less harsh on Churchill.

Following ww2, he was facing a popullation exhausted and depleted by war, who wanted the carnage to stop no matter the compromise.
And, says the historian: what would you have expected Americans to do?
Ukraine was a country that had declared war on America. That they had joined Nazis only to escape being decimated by Stalin was fair enough, but facts remained.

 

[mayfly13]

Being a historian is getting to be among the sexy occupations.
They're now on all talk shows.
whereas during my youth they were considered to merely bureaucrats who memorize stuff.

 

[mayfly13]

And here's one for you,LupusDei:
he claimed that bot just Russia, but also Polland?? used to be dishonest neighbors & threats to Ukraine.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Some of us have been here long enough that its a gross exageration that we were brought in.

 

[LincolnDuncan]

And here's one for you,LupusDei:
he claimed that bot just Russia, but also Polland?? used to be dishonest neighbors & threats to Ukraine.

Is English your second or third language?

 

[Rightguide]

Unbelievable how you guys managed to hijack almost every unwashed cause out there, to turn it into Your cause:

butters: strongest advocate for AfricanAmericans on Lit.
dolf: used to admonish anyone whom she felt discriminated against Indians and others (incidentally, I found myself to be lectured by her about my racism too, for laughing when Skiddles called me a Paki)
now hobbit is bleeding all over Ukrainians

With the exception of possibly a couple of posts with Hobbit, and possibly Dolf, I've only had experience with the moon barking hysterics of Butters.