Bush-isms

[Guest]

words of 'wisdom' from texas governor George Dubyah Bush:

"The point is, this is a way to help inoculate me about what has come and
is coming."
--On his anti-Gore ad, interview with New York Times,Sept. 2, 2000.


"As governor of Texas, I have set high standards for our public
schools, and I have met those standards."
--CNN online chat, Aug. 30, 2000.


"Well, I think if you say you're going to do something and don't do it,
that's trustworthiness."
--Ibid.


"I don't know whether I'm going to win or not. I think I am. I do know I'm
ready for the job. And, if not, that's just the way it goes."
--Des Moines, Iowa, Aug. 21, 2000


"This campaign not only hears the voices of the entrepreneurs and the
farmers and the entrepreneurs, we hear the voices of those struggling to
get ahead."
--Ibid.


"We cannot let terrorists and rogue nations hold this nation hostile or
hold our allies hostile."
--Ibid.


"I have a different vision of leadership. A leadership is someone who
brings
people together."
--Bartlett, Tenn., Aug. 18, 2000


"I think he needs to stand up and say if he thought the president were
wrong on policy and issues, he ought to say where."
--Interview with AP Aug. 11, 2000.


"I want you to know that farmers are not going to be secondary thoughts to
a Bush administration. They will be in the forethought of our thinking."
--Salinas, Calif., Aug. 10, 2000.


"And if he continues that, I'm going to tell the nation what I think about
him as a human being and a person."
--George H.W. Bush, Today Show, Aug. 1, 2000


"You might want to comment on that, Honorable."
--To New Jersey's secretary of state, the Hon. DeForest Soaries Jr.,
quoted in Washington Post, July 15, 2000


"This case has had full analyzation and has been looked at a lot. I
understand the emotionality of death penalty cases."
--Seattle Post-Intelligencer, 6/23/00.


"States should have the right to enact reasonable laws and restrictions
particularly to end the inhumane practice of ending a life that otherwise
could live."
--Cleveland, June 29, 2000.


"Unfairly but truthfully, our party has been tagged as being against
things.
Anti-immigrant, for example. And we're not a party of anti-immigrants.
Quite the opposite. We're a party that welcomes people."
--Cleveland, July 1, 2000.


"The fundamental question is, 'Will I be a successful president when it
comes
to foreign policy?' I will be, but until I'm the president, it's going to
be
hard for me to verify that I think I'll be more effective."
--Wayne, Mich., as quoted by Katharine Q. Seelye in the New York Times,
June 28, 2000.


"The only things that I can tell you is that every case I have reviewed I
have been comfortable with the innocence or guilt of the person that I've
looked at. I do not believe we've put a guilty ... I mean innocent person
to death in the state of Texas."
--All Things Considered, NPR, June 16, 2000.


"I'm gonna talk about the ideal world, Chris. I've read. I understand
reality. If you're asking me as the president, would I understand
reality,
I do."
--On abortion, Hardball, MSNBC; May 31, 2000


"There's not going to be enough people in the system to take advantage of
people like me."
--On Social Security crisis; Wilton, Conn., June 9, 2000.


"I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is
underestimating."
--U.S. News & World Report, April 3, 2000.


Bush: "First of all, Cinco de Mayo is not the independence day. That's
dieciseis de Septiembre, and ..."
Matthews: "What's that in English?"
Bush: "Fifteenth of September." (dieciseis de Septiembre = Sept. 16)
--Hardball, MSNBC, May 31, 2000 (Thanks to numerous readers.)


"Actually, this may sound a little West Texan to you, but I like it. When
I'm talking about when I'm talking about myself, and when he's talking
about myself, all of us are talking about me."
--Ibid.


"This is a world that is much more uncertain than the past. In the past we
were certain, we were certain it was us versus the Russians in the past.
We were certain, and therefore we had huge nuclear arsenals aimed at each
other to keep the peace. That's what we were certain of. ... You see, even
though it's an uncertain world, we're certain of some things. We're
certain
that even though the 'evil empire' may have passed, evil still remains.
We're certain there are people that can't stand what America stands for.
...We're certain there are madmen in this world, and there's terror, and
there's missiles and I'm certain of this, too: I'm certain to maintain the
peace, we better have a military of high morale, and I'm certain that
under
this administration, morale in the military is dangerously low."
--Albuquerque, N.M., the Washington Post, May 31, 2000.


"He has certainly earned a reputation as a fantastic mayor, because the
results speak for themselves. I mean, New York's a safer place for him to
be."
--On Rudy Giuliani, The Edge With Paula Zahn, May 18, 2000 .


"The fact that he relies on facts, says things that are not factual, are
going to undermine his campaign."
--New York Times, March 4, 2000.


"I think we agree, the past is over."
--On his meeting with John McCain, Dallas Morning News, May 10, 2000.


"It's clearly a budget. It hast a lot of numbers in it."
--Reuters, May 5, 2000.


GOV. BUSH: Because the picture on the newspaper. It just seems so
un-American to me, the picture of the guy storming the house with a scared
little boy there. I talked to my little brother, Jeb. I haven't told this
to many people. But he's the governor, I shouldn't call him my little
brother--my brother, Jeb, the great governor of Texas.
JIM LEHRER: Florida.
GOV. BUSH: Florida. The state of the Florida.
--The NewsHour April 27, 2000.


"I hope we get to the bottom of the answer. It's what I'm interested to
know."
--On what happened in negotiations between the Justice Department and
Elian Gonzalez's Miami relatives, Associated Press, April 26, 2000.


"Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometimes
until we get an objective analysis."
--Meet the Press, April 15, 2000


"You subscribe politics to it. I subscribe freedom to it."
--Responding to a question about whether he and Al Gore made Elian a
political issue. In Palm Beach, Fla., as quoted by the Associated
Press, April 6, 2000.


"I was raised in the West. The west of Texas. It's pretty close to
California. In more ways than Washington, D.C., is close to California."
--In Los Angeles as quoted by the Los Angeles Times, April 8, 2000.


"Reading is the basics for all learning."
--Announcing his "Reading First" initiative in Reston, Va., March 28,
2000.


"We want our teachers to be trained so they can meet the obligations,their
obligations as teachers. We want them to know how to teach the science of
reading. In order to make sure there's not this kind of federal federal
cufflink."
--At Fritsche Middle School, Milwaukee, March 30, 2000.


"Other Republican candidates may retort to personal attacks and negative
ads."
--Fund-raising letter quoted in the Washington Post, March 24, 2000


"I've got a reason for running. I talk about a larger goal, which is to
call upon the best of America. It's part of the renewal. It's reform and
renewal. Part of the renewal is a set of high standards and to remind
people that the greatness of America really does depend on neighbors
helping
neighbors and children finding mentors. I worry. I'm very worried about,
you know, the kid who just wonders whether America is meant for him. I
really worry about that. And uh, so, I'm running for a reason. I'm
answering this question here and the answer is, you cannot lead America to
a positive tomorrow with revenge on one's mind. Revenge is so incredibly
negative. And so to answer your question, I'm going to win because people
sense my heart, know my sense of optimism and know where I want to lead
the country. And I tease people by saying, 'A leader, you can't say,
follow
me the world is going to be worse.' I'm an optimistic person. I'm an
inherently content person. I've got a great sense of where I want to lead
and I'm comfortable with why I'm running. And, you know, the call on that
speech was, beware. This is going to be a tough campaign."
--Interview with the Washington Post, March 23, 2000.


"People make suggestions on what to say all the time. I'll give you an
example; I don't read what's handed to me. People say, 'Here, here's your
speech, or here's an idea for a speech.' They're changed. Trust me."
--Interview with the New York Times, March 15, 2000.


"It's evolutionary, going from governor to president, and this is a
significant step, to be able to vote for yourself on the ballot, and I'll
be able to do so next fall, I hope."
--Associated Press, March 8, 2000.


"It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in nature."
--Los Angeles, Feb. 23, 2000


"I don't have to accept their tenants. I was trying to convince those
college students to accept my tenants. And I reject any labeling me
because
I happened to go to the university."
--Today, Feb. 23, 2000


"I understand small business growth. I was one."
--NY Daily News, Feb. 19, 2000.


"The senator has got to understand if he's going to have he can't have it
both ways. He can't take the high horse and then claim the low road."
--To reporters in Florence, S.C., Feb. 17, 2000


"Really proud of it. A great campaign. And I'm really pleased with the
organization and the thousands of South Carolinians that worked on my
behalf. And I'm very gracious and humbled."
--To Cokie Roberts, This Week, Feb. 20, 2000.


"I don't want to win? If that were the case why the heck am I on the bus
16 hours a day, shaking thousands of hands, giving hundreds of speeches,
getting pillared in the press and cartoons and still staying on message to
win?"
--Newsweek, Feb. 28, 2000


"I thought how proud I am to be standing up beside my dad. Never did it
occur to me that he would become the gist for cartoonists."
--Ibid.


"If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and
principles, come and join this campaign."
--Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000.


"How do you know if you don't measure if you have a system that simply
suckles kids through?"
--Explaining the need for educational accountability in Beaufort, S.C.,
Feb. 16, 2000


"We ought to make the pie higher."
--South Car. Republican Debate, Feb. 15, 2000.


"I do not agree with this notion that somehow if I go to try to attract
votes and to lead people toward a better tomorrow somehow I get subscribed
to someisome doctrine gets subscribed to me."
--Meet The Press, Feb. 13, 2000


"I've changed my style somewhat, as you know. I'm less. I pontificate
less,
although it may be hard to tell it from this show. And I'm more
interacting
with people."
--ibid


"I think we need not only to eliminate the tollbooth to the middle class,
I
think we should knock down the tollbooth."
--Nashua, N.H., as quoted by Gail Collins in the New York Times, Feb. 1,
2000


"The most important job is not to be governor, or first lady in my case."
--Pella, Iowa, as quoted by the San Antonio Express-News, Jan. 30, 2000


"Will the highways on the Internet become more few?"
--Concord, N.H., 1/29/00.


"This is Preservation Month. I appreciate preservation. It's what you do
when you run for president. You gotta preserve." Speaking during
"Perseverance Month"
--at Fairgrounds Elementary School in Nashua, N.H. As quoted in the Los
Angeles Times, Jan. 28, 2000


"I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."
--Greater Nashua, N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000


"What I am against is quotas. I am against hard quotas, quotas they
basically
delineate based upon whatever. However they delineate, quotas, I think
vulcanize society. So I don't know how that fits into what everybody else
is
saying, their relative positions, but that's my position."
--Quoted by Molly Ivins, the San Francisco Chronicle, Jan. 21, 2000.


"When I was coming up, it was a dangerous world, and you knew exactly who
they were," he said. "It was us vs. them, and it was clear who them was.
Today, we are not so sure who the they are, but we know they're there."
--Iowa Western Community College, Jan 21, 2000


"The administration I'll bring is a group of men and women who are focused
on what's best for America, honest men and women, decent men and women,
women who will see service to our country as a great privilege and who
will
not stain the house."
--Des Moines Register debate, Iowa, Jan. 15, 2000


"This is still a dangerous world. It's a world of madmen and uncertainty
and potential mential losses."
--At a South Carolina oyster roast, as quoted in the Financial Times,
Jan. 14, 2000


"We must all hear the universal call to like your neighbor just like you
like to be liked yourself."
--Ibid.


"Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"
--Florence, S.C., Jan. 11, 2000


"Gov. Bush will not stand for the subsidation of failure."
--ibid.


"There needs to be debates, like we're going through. There needs to be
town-hall meetings. There needs to be travel. This is a huge country."
--Larry King Live, Dec. 16, 1999.


"I read the newspaper."
--In answer to a question about his reading habits, New Hampshire
Republican Debate, Dec. 2, 1999.


"I think it's important for those of us in a position of responsibility to
be firm in sharing our experiences, to understand that the babies out of
wedlock is a very difficult chore for mom and baby alike. ... I believe we
ought to say there is a different alternative than the culture that is
proposed by people like Miss Wolf in society. ... And, you know,
hopefully,
condoms will work, but it hasn't worked."
--Meet the Press, Nov. 21, 1999.


"The students at Yale came from all different backgrounds and all parts of
the country. Within months, I knew many of them."
--From A Charge To Keep, by George W. Bush, published November 1999.


"It is incredibly presumptive for somebody who has not yet earned his
party's
nomination to start speculating about vice presidents."
--Keene, N.H., Oct. 22, 1999, quoted in the New Republic, Nov. 15, 1999


"The important question is, How many hands have I shaked?"
--Answering a question about why he hasn't spent more time in New
Hampshire, in the New York Times, Oct. 23, 1999.


"I don't remember debates. I don't think we spent a lot of time debating
it. Maybe we did, but I don't remember."
--On discussions of the Vietnam War when he was an undergraduate at Yale,
Washington Post, July 27, 1999.


"The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from
your foreign minister, who came to Texas."
--To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22,
1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of
Slovenia.


"If the East Timorians decide to revolt, I'm sure I'll have a statement."
--Quoted by Maureen Dowd in the New York Times, June 16, 1999


"Keep good relations with the Grecians."
--The Economist, June 12, 1999


"Kosovians can move back in."
--CNN Inside Politics, April 9, 1999


"It was just inebriating what Midland was all about then."
--From a 1994 interview, as quoted in First Son, by Bill Minutaglio.

 

[April]

LMFAO *shaking head* Gawd, politicians are stupid!

 

[Cheyenne]

Anyone else love the Bush TV commercial showing Gore making his infamous statement about having invented the Internet as much as I do?

 

[Guest]

not as much as Bush's claims he wants to run a clean campaign then being the first to launch a smear ad. not as much as his "RATS" ad. not as much as his proposal to drill for oil in a nature reserve. can you imagine Bush meeting with international leaders? "We cannot let terrorists and rogue nations hold this nation hostile or hold our allies hostile." too funny! we'd be the laughing stock of the whole world, voting in a President who has the linguistic capacity of a 5 year old.

the Gore/Internet thing is something that's been taken out of context. when Al Gore says he invented the Internet, he's not saying he was holding Vint Cerf's coat at Darpa in 1968. what he's talking about is the bill which ended the NSF's control of the domain system. in 1993, the National Science Foundation got out of the business of the Internet. before then, commercial applications for Internet technology were prohibited by the NSF charter. gore led the charge on that bill, which allowed the creation of the commercial internet. so it's not untrue, but put in such a way that you don't know what he's taking credit for.

i've studied economics pretty extensively, both at Wharton undergraduate, and then at U. of Chicago. i would call myself an economic liberal, which is somewhat unusual at those institutions, but not totally unheard of.

the question of govt. spending and higher taxes vs. less (or no) govt. spending and lower taxes is a sticky one. i'd probably argue that most average republican voters speak from a position of ignorance, though. pretty much anybody who's got any knowledge about economics and politics knows that govt. spending is required, and that govt. shapes the economy through its incentive structure. so the question of govt. spending is how much.

i would argue right now that more transfer programs such as jobfare, welfare, and tax benefits for the poor are probably necessary. a surprisingly large percentage of americans are being raised with substandard education and opportunities for advancement, and quite honestly, this is going to catch up with us unless we have some major policy reform. you're already seeing some effects in the tearing social ethos, the disintegration of family, etc.

you can blame these things on hollywood... or you can maybe blame them on the fact that more families are now being forced to have two working parents, sometimes working overtime, and multiple jobs, to maintain their social status. keeping up with the jones' has never been harder than now. meanwhile, we're seeing an ever-smaller percentage of americans compiling a greater amount of wealth. we have the highest concentration of wealth, by a good measure, of any first world country.

and the social problems we've been experiencing as this trend has accelerated, are similar to those faced in third-world countries. some might look at this, and say, you know what? maybe it's not hollywood, or lazy welfare mothers, or the big bad govt. that's the problem in our country.... maybe, it's the social and economic policies which allow a few people to amass more money than many GDPs, influence the political process through the "free speech" exercise of latent bribery, change the laws of this country to protect their economic interests at the expense of the majority, and promote ignorance and bigotry in our schools, our churches, and our courts.

 

[Purple Haze]

(applauds) please tell us who you really are.

 

[teresafannin]

The thought of George W. Bush in the White House is really scary. He has done so little in the time he has been our governor, probably because he has been too busy wanting to be president. As crappy as he is as a governor, I would rather have him in the Texas governor's mansion than in the White House. He is basically a good ole boy with family money & the thought of him representing us in a meeting with world leaders is ludicrous.

 

[Guest]

You know me, PH. That's all I will say.

 

[Guest]

The truth about Bush's military service record:

http://www.tompaine.com/opinion/2000/09/27/index.html

 

[Siren]

OMG ilovepolitics.......hahaha

 

[Thumper]

I too wanna know...

What I have been trying to tell Bill all along...

Just put more elegantly..

Damnit I shoulda gots me an edjacashun...

ilovepolitics....I am your example, my wife and I both work full time and I also work another part time job..Since when does hard work pay off?

 

[Unclebill]

Originally posted by ilovepolitics
the Gore/Internet thing is something that's been taken out of context.

Was his statement that he and Tipper were the inspiration/subject of the story/movie "Love Story" also taken out of context?

Or how about his declaration that he was the one who discovered/defined the problem of the Love Canal?

Or the one about his mother rocking him to sleep with the lullaby "Look for the Union Label"? [Which incidentally was written when Albert Gore Junior was about 27 years old. A little old for mommy to be singing him to sleep wouldn't you think? I wonder how Tipper felt about that.]

And to support his image as the environmentalist, how much water had to be released from the reservoir for his photo-op canoe ride a few months back?

The problem with Gore is that he's a pathlogical liar a la Clinton. So when an error like the Internet thing is made, it is entirely too believable.

I find it totally incomprehensible that Gore is allowed to run on his record with such hype, accolades and media praise when he's done nothing but carry Clinton's water for 8 years.

And if his running mate, Lieberman [sp?], were the righteous Jew he claims to be, he would have voted to convict Clinton in the Senate impeachment trial. However, he was loyal to the Democratic Party at the expense of honor, truth, justice, integrity and the American people and thus is quite a fit co-conspirator for Gore; just another Democrat hypocrite. The end justifies the means; the truth is whatever advances our cause.

If I had to make a choice between Bush and Gore, I would take Bush without a doubt because he has at least some principles, something of which I'll NEVER accuse Gore. As it is, I will vote for Harry Browne.

 

[Aranian]

I'd rather have a pathological liar and a vote whore than an incompetent fool. The latter is capable of far more damage.

 

[Magic Merlin]

Uncle Bill.

I would not attempt to argue with you about the character of Al Gore. My opinion of him is that he is the typical politician that will say and do whatever it takes to get elected. That being said, however, what I have seen and heard of Bush and who he is leaves me with an even worse feeling. All I see in Bush is an incompetent fool, that is where he is today because of his father and what he owes big business.

I heard this on the radio the other day and found that it describes Bush to a tee.


"Some people are born into greatness."

"Others earn their greatness."

"Still others are handed their greatness with their Ivy League diplomas."

 

[Purple Haze]

I really hate to say I told ya so, but....

Didn't everybody know that a debate between Gore and Bush II is a mismatch, and would expose the nincompoop the republicans put their money on. I really don't have any love for Gore, never did, he's a handpuppet just the same, but he's the only thing that'll keep that idiot out of the Whitehouse. Is it possible that George is even dumber than Dan Quayle? ........................nah.

Unclebill, thanks for the Libertarian links, I took the quiz, and surprise, surprise, I'm a Libertarian. Seriously, I thought the quiz was extremely broad and geared. I am either Libertarian, Fascist, or a Commie, according to the profile. The philosophies on how to deal with the hungry and homeless are a little iffy to me. Still, defending Bush and slamming Gore on this particular thread makes you sound even more republican. Honestly, Unclebill, did you listen to Rush today?

I thought so.

 

[Cheyenne]

The truth about Bush's military service record:

http://www.tompaine.com/opinion/2000/09/27/index.html

First, I'll admit I didn't go read your link. But maybe you could tell me if it also discusses Gore's personal body guard during his "honorable" service in Vietnam?

 

[Guest]

if you could provide me with a genuine news source, Cheyenne, that talks about this bodyguard, then i would be happy to discuss that with you. until then, i must dismiss that as propaganda.

watching the debate and then reading the post-debate criticism, i discovered something. the news media seems to have different standards for the two candidates. this illustrates my point. here is the first paragraph of an article by a reporter who thinks BUSH won (From MSNBC):

- - - -

WASHINGTON, Oct. 4 — There were no outrageous gaffes last night, but nothing exactly galvanizing either. As some pundits and commentators saw it, George W. Bush could earn a high score in last night’s presidential debate just by failing to make a complete fool of himself. It’s a strange way to define success, but by that standard Bush did indeed pull it off. He didn’t make any outrageous goofs, gaffes or bloopers and so the debate will go down as a plus for him.

- - - -

it's assumed that Gore is more intelligent and more knowledgeable in both foreign and domestic policy. it's assumed that Bush is incoherent, inarticulate, and unknowledgeable. therefore, if Bush shows up and doesn't do anything completely stupid then they give him a win (though i will say his lack of knowledge of the Serbian situation was unbelievable for a presidential candidate.

as for moral character, bush was no saint. he's an ex-coke addict who took a cushy service job then didn't serve his time. but that's not the point. people need to understand that we're not electing a saint - we're electing a President. all politicians lie to some degree. Bush lied when he said he would not run negative ads, for example. the question should be who would better represent us to the rest of the world. who can make informed decisions in our best interest. Gore has proven he can deal with foreign crises. he's well-spoken and knowledgeable.

Bush may come across as "friendlier" but that's not going to mean a thing in foreign affairs. what will Milosevic say - "this Bush guy doesn't seem to know WTF he's talking about, and he can't seem to put two words together, but golly, he seems like a nice enough guy..."

the critical issue to me is the Supreme Court. Gore has stated he will appoint judges who won't try to overturn roe v wade. he's also said he will not challenge the FDA ruling re: RU486. Bush will appoint judges who will overturn roe v wade, and has said in interviews that if elected he will open an inquiry into the legality of RU486, even though the FDA has spent 12 years testing and approving the drug. and Bush wants to open drilling in our wildlife preserves, while Gore wants to focus on renewable resources.

Bush has not pledged sign a bill into law to limit soft money contributions. this bill is supported by Gore and by many in congress including its founder John McCain. that scares me.

i could respect Bush if he could at least back up his arguments. he had no stats or facts to support his information, instead choosing to make Gore Internet jokes and bashing the character of his opponent. that he chose to do so told me that he had nothing to say.

 

[Deborah]

Hey ilovepolitics!, what Goreball are you voting for I wonder? You sound just like Rush Limbaugh, except the flip side of the coin.

Yep, I agree with some of the comments made here and on other threads (like Muff said we're fucked either way), Gore is a liar and Bush is stupid, so I'll waste my vote on somebody who can't possibly win. I take no responsibility for putting either of these shit-for-brains in the White House.

Gore will probably win. Bush's fatal mistake may turn out to be he didn't take McCain or Ridge, REAL Vietnam vets. Neither of those two dudes used Daddy's influence to get a magic carpet ride through their obligatory military service during a time of war.

Ridge would have mitigated Bush's "Doh!" position on RU-486.

 

[Laurel]

From The Onion:

Bush Vows To Do 'That Thing Gore Just Said, Only Better'

BOSTON-- Responding to debate opponent Al Gore's promise to pay off the national debt in 12 years by devoting $2 of projected surpluses toward debt reduction for every $1 used for tax cuts, George W. Bush vowed to do "that thing Gore just said, only better" during Tuesday's presidential debate. "Yeah, that debt thing," the Republican candidate said during his allotted 90-second rebuttal. "I'm going to do that, but, like, 10 times better." Bush added that, as president, he would "do all that stuff Gore said about education and the environment, but my version would work twice as good."

 

[Cheyenne]

if you could provide me with a genuine news source, Cheyenne, that talks about this bodyguard, then i would be happy to discuss that with you. until then, i must dismiss that as propaganda.

Questions linger on Gore's Vietnam duty
By Jerry Seper THE WASHINGTON TIMES
http://www.WashTimes.com/national/default-200081422270.htm

 

[Guest]

to all the gore naysayers: you are plain dumb hick repubs and read on if you can
understand English:

A CNN/USA Today/Gallup poll taken immediately after Tuesday night's presidential
debate indicated 48 percent of registered voters thought Gore did the best job in
the debate, compared to 41 percent for Bush. A CBS News poll of 812 registered
voters had Gore by 56 percent to 42 percent for George W. Bush. An ABC poll had
them tied.


FUZZY MATH. Although Bush said that of Gore, it was Bush who was guilty of it.
During the debate Bush claimed more than once that 1.3 is 1/4 of 4.6. This is an
error of over half a trillion dollars.

FUZZY FOREIGN POLICY. During the debate Bush suggested that we get Milosevic
out of office by having Russia convince him to step down as leader. Gore reminded
Bush that Russia has gone on record as supporting Milosevic.

DEBATE SCORE: GORE 70, BUSH 50 (with Analysis)
transcript

Now I know why Poppy Bush kept looking at his watch during his debate with
Clinton, because I was doing the same during the Gore-Tex debate this evening in
Boston. Maybe it's because I've been listening to the same canned responses to the
same policy questions for about six months, but this first televised confrontation
between candidates seemed to run out of gas at around the 60 minute mark, when
moderator Jim Lehrer asked Gore-Tex to describe how an episode in which they
dealt with an unexpected crisis indicated their leadership under fire. Gore talked
about rigging up a peace agreement during the Kosovo conflict, then wandered off
into the thicket about how, if he were president, he would fight for the people
against the corporations. Having had a few minutes to think about his answer, Bush
remembered floods in Texas and how his heart went out to the survivors. Maybe it
will make more sense when we read the transcript tomorrow. Then there was the
answer to Lehrer's question about what to do about Milosevic. Bush said we needed
a strong DIP-LO-MA-TIC hand. He said the word with emphasis and very slowly,
hesitating after each syllable. He also talked about living in a DE-MOC-RA-CY. He
further said that we should get Russia to talk to Milosevic. He said that twice in a
short response, so it must have been important. He also said that it was time for
Milosevic to go. He said that twice. I looked at my watch.

While Bush became more at ease towards the end of the debate, he generally
appeared under pressure, sniffing, pouting his lips, mumbling, saying "um" a lot. Gore
was more animated and smiled a lot. His tone suggested that he was trying to be
patient with Bush, correcting him on his numbers and his distortions of fact. Bush,
growing petulant, began to attack Gore as a Washington insider who used "fuzzy
math" to win an argument. Luckily, tomorrow's transcript will speak for itself, but
Bush kept repeating the same distortions of his tax plan that economist Paul
Krugman called him on in the NYT a week ago:

"There's about $4.6 trillion of surplus projected," he declared, which is true, even if
the projections are dubious. He then went on to say: "I want some of the money,
nearly a trillion, to go to projects like prescription drugs for seniors. Money to
strengthen the military to keep the peace. I've got some views about education
around the world. I want to — you know, I've got some money in there for the
environment." Nearly a trillion? The budget statement released by the candidate's
campaign three weeks ago shows total spending on new projects of $474.6 billion —
less than half a trillion. Mr. Bush presumably wants to convey the sense that he's a
compassionate guy who really cares about education, the environment and all that.
But that doesn't excuse claiming to spend twice as much on these good things as
the number given in his own budget. He continued: "But there's still a quarter
unspent, about $1.3 trillion [the size of Mr. Bush's tax cut]. I think we ought to
send it back to the people who pay the bills." Alas, 4 times 1.3 is 5.2, not 4.6 — and
anyway, the full budget cost of that tax cut, including interest, is $1.6 trillion, more
than a third of the projected surplus. Next came Social Security. Here a bit of
explanation is needed. The reason Social Security is in trouble is that the system
has a large "hole" — basically a hidden debt — because previous generations of
retirees were paid benefits out of the contributions of younger workers. That hole
also means that you can't justify privatizing Social Security — which Mr. Bush
advocates — by comparing the rate of return that an individual could get by
investing in government bonds and the implied rate of return on his Social Security
contributions. That comparison ignores a multitrillion-dollar debt that somebody has
to pay. Mr. Bush, wasting no time, went straight to that bogus comparison. "But the
safest of all safe — of about 4 percent [a reference to government bonds] — is
twice what they get in the Social Security trust today." Is there any way to explain
away Mr. Bush's remarks — three major self-serving misstatements in the course of
only a couple of minutes? Not that I can see. We're not talking questionable
economic analysis here, just facts: what Mr. Bush said to that national television
audience simply wasn't true."

What it all boiled down to during the debate was Bush kept using the above
numbers, Gore kept calling him on it, and Bush kept saying Gore is a product of
Washington "fuzzy math." Gore ended up by suggesting that Bush had resorted to
calling him names rather than backing up his numbers. Characteristically, Bush's
common defense in such situations is to use the old, "I know what you are, but
what am I?" Fuzzy math, indeed.

Tonight's scoring was based on 12 Lehrer questions plus a 13th category for
presentation, which was described above. Gore got an 8 out of 10 for presentation,
Bush got a 6. The questions were more complicated to score, since the person with
the rebuttal had time to prepare an answer. Thus, the person who had to answer
first could earn up to 10 points, while the person who rebutted was given up to
three points, plus or minus. Points were deducted for obvious misinformation. Here is
an analysis of the first 5 questions. More will follow. --Bill Brasin, 10/4/00

Question #1 To Gore: Yoiu've questioned Bush's experience. What exactly do you
mean? Gore answered that he questioned Bush's proposals, not his experience, and
went on to outline his own proposals by way of contrast. Bush, in turn, went over
his proposals, but was the victim of "fuzzy math," calling O.6 trillion dollars 1/4 of
4.6 trillion dollars. Further, while Bush went on to say he would spend another 1/4 of
the surplus for "important projects," his official proposal indicates that it is actually
less than 1/8. Actually, both men ignored Lehrer's question and argued about the
specifics of their proposals. Bush accused Gore of using "phony numbers," which
gave Gore a reason to indicate that the wealthiest 1% would get as much in tax
cuts as Bush is spending for health care, drugs, education, and national defense
combined." Bush disagreed, but refused to furnish facts. Score: Gore 8, Bush -3, for
"fuzzy math."

Question #2 To Bush: You've questioned Gore's leadership skills. What do you mean
by that? Bush began strong with his theme that the Clinton/Gore administration had
8 years to lead in such areas as prescription drugs, Medicare, and Social Security,
and failed. So it's time for a change. Gore responded that 95% of seniors under the
Bush drug plan would not get anything for the first four years, which is correct.
Gore went on with a new attack linking Bush's actions as Governor of Texas with his
proposed actions as president. The first thing Bush did as governor this term was to
give an emergency tax cut to the oil industry. Gore pointed out that, as president,
Bush would give an immediate tax cut to the wealthy, but seniors would have to
wait four years for a cut on drug costs. Bush responded by calling Gore's comments
"Mediscare," but did not attempt to refute the facts. This is the way the rest of the
discussion went. Every time Bush responded by calling names but not provided facts
to refute Gore, he lost points. Bush's first response earned him an 8, but by the time
he was finished that became a 5. Gore lost points on style and not rebutting Bush's
comments on Social Security, but began to get under Bush's skin. Bush's comment
that Gore not only invented the internet, but he invented the calculator was a low
blow, considering that Bush was unable to provide facts and figures to back up his
generalizations. Lehrer decided to continue the discussion and Gore caught Bush on
several points of misrepresentation, as the transcript indicates. Score: Bush 5, Gore
1

Question #3 To Gore: How would you contrast your plan to prevent future oil
problems with Bush's. Both candidates made their differing positions clear, and this
was Bush's best answer, as it often was during the primary debates. Bush would
stress creating greater supplies by more exploration, including exploration on
environmentally sensitive land, such as in Alaska. Gore is more concerned about
protecting such land and, while working to ensure supply, would stress methods of
conservation, which Bush did not appear to be interested in. Score: Bush 9, Gore 3.

Question #4 To Bush: If elected, would you try to overturn the FDA's approval of
the abortion pill RU-486? While Bush said he couldn't do that as president, this is not
correct, as Lehrer lated implied while questioning Bush further. At that point Bush
said that a president can't "unilaterally" overturn the decision. (Dah.) Gore then
called Bush on it, saying that Bush said two days ago that he "would order his FDA
appointee to review the decision." Bush responded that he would do that to make
sure the drug is safe, which is what the FDA spent 12 years demonstrating. Gore
went on to accuse Bush of using code words in his discussion of abortion in relation
to the selection of judges for the Supreme Court. (The new president will select two
or three, and perhaps as many as four, thus creating the very cultural direction in
our society for many years to come.) Gore pointed out that Bush has promised to
select judges like Scalia and Thomas, who would then overturn Roe vs. Wade. Gore
said he would do the opposite. Bush lost points he had already earned by previously
stating his "strict constructionist," Constitution as a "sacred" book like the Bible
philosophy. He refused to answer Lehrer question: Is "strict constructionist" a code
word for overturning Roe vs. Wade? Bush's problem, here, is he wants to get a
larger percentage of the women's vote but doesn't want to say he is an active
anti-abortionist, which he clearly is. Score: Bush 6, Gore 3.

Question #5 To Gore: If Milosevic refuses to accept the election results, what
should the U.S. do to get him to leave? This was Gore's home run question, and he
did quite well with it. He knew the names and could pronounce them, he knew the
history and articulated it succinctly, and his suggestion to apply sanctions in a
measured way made sense. Bush, on the other hand, feeling pressure, began to
slow down and pause as many viewers must have recalled his failures with foreign
policy history and the pronunciation of foreign names. This was the first presidential
debate I every saw where a candidate pronunced common words, syllable by
syllabe, pausing between each syllable. DI-PLO-MA-CY....DEM-OC-RA-CY. That, and
carefully repeating key sentences more than once in a short answer. Not a pretty
sight. Then came the crusher. Bush suggested that if he were president he would
ask Russia to intervene and convince Milosevic that it was time to go. Gore
reminded him that Russia is on record as backing Milosevic, "Well, obviously,"
answered Bush, "we wouldn't use the Russians if they didn't agree." I was reminded
of Jerry Ford. Score: Gore 10, Bush-3.

 

[Washingtonian]

For the record, I'm not into either major party canidate ...

Bush looked really really uncomfotable last night. He really looked like he was
scrambling for what to say next, while Gore looked very comfortable and in
command.

I was really suprised as just how unmasterful Bush was as a debator. I would think
that a career politician running for the highest office in the US would have taken a
few oration classes or joined the debate team in school or joined toastmaster or
something, anything, fer chrissakes. I would also expect a presidential canidate to
have a good understanding of recent and current foriegn affairs. If he can't handle
Gore, how the hell is he gonna deal with middle east peace talks?

And Bush's flubs were quite disturbing. The "buying oil from Sadam Hussain" (?!?!)
remark, the nonsensical use of "that's what goveners do" (since when do governers
meet w/ Alan Greenspan?) and the classic "here and at home" were all quite
entertaining until I remembered that this guy could really become president.

Preparation for the next debate will be *real* fun. Lord help him if Gore unsheaths
his claws. Makes me think of the SNL skit with Dubya whining to daddy "I don't
wanna do this president thing any more, it's too hard."

 

[Washingtonian]

One more thought, perhaps Bush's people ought to train him to keep it simple. He
seems to mes up the most when he's trying to sound smart. Using small words and
simple sentences is perferable to using SAT words incorrectly and having long
statements where the beginning and end don't match.

Kinda reminds me of Damon Wayans on In Living color when he did the "educated"
prisoner sketches. "And the hypotenuse is the urethra of the dissection, pardon me
I mean the deffication"

 

[Cheyenne]

to all the gore naysayers: you are plain dumb hick repubs and read on if you can understand English:

Yet another troll afraid to use their registered name, how quaint.

If you want people to understand English, you need to write in English. Let's rewrite your opening for you using better capitalization and punctuation.

"To all of the Gore naysayers: You are plain dumb, hick Republicans. Read on if you can understand english."

Much better, don't you think?

No more responses to trolls (including the threadstarter) from me after this one. Get thee to Conventry.

 

[Deborah]

Yeah, ilovepolitics and Bushlsm, but Al Gore's make-up sucked. He reminded me of Howdy Doody. I wonder who is making the dummy talk these days, he sure sounds like the "I never had sex with that woman" dude.

And Bush, he put on a show with Tom Ridge in W. PA yesterday. Ridge said Bush achieved a "smashing victory" in the debate. I wonder why they didn't talk about RU-486. For those who don't know, Ridge, a Catholic, totally pissed off his local bishop with his views on abortion.

Hey ilovepolitics and Bushlsm, here's a quarter and call somebody who cares. Call Rush Limbaugh.

 

[Lasher]

I don't know which is funnier to me - that someone would actually care as much about either of these morons to take the time to write the long-assed posts on this thread supporting a candidate, or that someone would be so embarrassed by their support of Al Gore that they have to post that support under and unregistered name.

Oh, wait, that second part I can at least understand - but it's still pretty fricking funny.

You people wouldn't think this election stuff is so damn great if you lived in THE BATTLEGROUND state of Pennsylvania. Goddamn, if I see either of these jack-asses one more time I'm gonna puke. They're creeping up on a combined total of $20 million spent on TV ads in this state alone. You know what that means??? Means they get more air time than goddamn Regis Philbin, and they have even less to say.

Now, let's be honest, does anyone actually think it will make a difference which of these guys gets elected?? Do you think anything that they're talking about now will actually get done?? Certainly not in any form as they are describing it now. It's just about a month before the election, everything you hear now has to be taken with at least a grain of salt.

Oh, and the killer for me is how ALL of their plans are based on these projections of massive surpluses for the next ten years.... It's liking watching a couple of kids in March talk about how they're gonna make all this money mowing lawns for the summer, but by the 2nd week of June they're sitting in the treehouse money cash they never did find any lawns to mow. But that's government for ya, spending money they don't have long before they don't have it....

I can understand you not wanting to answer the political trolls on this thread, Cheyenne, but I can understand their point of view too. I know I'd be too goddamned embarrassed to say I supported either of these morons under my real name, or my fake name, LOL.

(BTW, why no mention of Gore lying about his trips with FEMA??)