Bush defends domestic eavesdropping.

[Guest]

 

[zipman]

Wrong Zip, I have stated, and the Supreme court has upheld on several occasions, that the government, nor it's employees, owe any particular protections to the individual. You can't find it in the constitution, I can't find it in the constitution, and even the Supreme court can't find it in the constitution. Not even under a penumbra.

Ishmael

That is what Bush claimed is his obligation and you said you agreed with his motives which is in direct contrast to what you posted above.

 

[Ishmael]

And you believe that to be a complete list? Who are these 500 people? Do we have names? Does anyone outside of the Executive Branch have the names?

This is a sad thread. It is unbelievable to me that so many here are eager to turn over their constitutional rights to the Executive. ...very sad.


Anywho... I shall leave you all to resolve this issue among yourselves. I am off to flirt.

Read up on Echelon and what it's charter became in '93 and how many hundreds of thousands were 'spied' upon. Of course, Clinton authorized it, and it was ONLY about money so it wasn't worth being concerned about. Right?

And of course, the government should send you the names for your personal approval.

Or why don't we publish ALL the names in the NYT. I'm sure THAT'S no invasion of privacy.

Get real man.

Ishmael

 

[Tortured]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/19/bush/index.html

Holy shit.


Apparently they actually foiled an al qaeda plot with those controversial wire taps.


i never thought i'd see the day. I stand corrected.

 

[phrodeau]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/12/19/bush/index.html[/url]

Holy shit.


Apparently they actually foiled an al qaeda plot with those controversial wire taps.


i never thought i'd see the day. I stand corrected.

Apparently you ran out of arguments.

 

[Gringao]

Apparently you ran out of arguments.

Some time ago.

 

[JazzManJim]

Owch. That really hurt.

Nah, you're a tough guy.

Look, we don't know nearly enough about this program to even start getting up in arms about it, nor should we. What we do know is that it was a secret program authorized by the President, performed by an agency whose job it is to do exactly what it was asked to do, and monitored by Congress and legal beagles in a couple or three different agencies. We know it was limited in focus and intention and was reviewed on a regular basis.

More than that is just guesswork (and IMO, it ought to remain guesswork). Well, except that it was successful. It did exactly what it was supposed to do - help prevent terrorist attacks in the United States.

 

[Ishmael]

That is what Bush claimed is his obligation and you said you agreed with his motives which is in direct contrast to what you posted above.

Is it? Or are you under the misguided thoughts that Bush having an obligation to the nation implies he owes you something personally?

Ishmael

 

[The Mutt]

Read up on Echelon and what it's charter became in '93 and how many hundreds of thousands were 'spied' upon. Of course, Clinton authorized it, and it was ONLY about money so it wasn't worth being concerned about. Right?

And of course, the government should send you the names for your personal approval.

Or why don't we publish ALL the names in the NYT. I'm sure THAT'S no invasion of privacy.

Get real man.

Ishmael

The "Billy did it too" defense went out in the third grade.

 

[Ishmael]

Follow up post.

The presidents obligation is to the nation and the constitution. Nowhere in the oath of office is either one of our names mentioned. Like the CEO of a corporation has a fiduciary responsibility to the Corp., so has the president to the nation.

If Zip, or a thousand like him, or an Ishmael and a thousand like him have to be sacrificed to save the rest of the nation, sobeit. If Zip and Ishmael haven't made arrangements to cover their own ass when push comes to shove, well, we're going to die. And neither of us have the right, or the expectation, to demand that the government put our petty lives above the balance of the nation.

Ishmael

 

[Ishmael]

Jesus mutt, you're too fucking stupid for words.

Facts aren't defenses. But they are precedents you fucking ignoramous.

Ishmael

 

[The Mutt]

Jesus mutt, you're too fucking stupid for words.

Facts aren't defenses. But they are precedents you fucking ignoramous.

Ishmael

So you are saying that previous crimes excuse current crimes?
Or are you saying that Clinton was right?

 

[Tortured]

Some time ago.

yeah im going to head over to www.foxnews.com

right now


to get the other side on the story.

 

[Gringao]

So you are saying that previous crimes excuse current crimes?
Or are you saying that Clinton was right?

I think he's saying that, like it or not, current US statute and case law permit what Bush is doing.

 

[Slowlane]

I think he's saying that, like it or not, current US statute and case law permit what Bush is doing.

Are you talking to the deaf again?

 

[Gringao]

Are you talking to the deaf again?

The triumph of hope over experience.

 

[The Mutt]

I think he's saying that, like it or not, current US statute and case law permit what Bush is doing.

Then why did Bush bring the Times' boss to the White House to talk him into squashing the story?

Oh, right. He didn't want the terrorists to know we were looking for them. Because they didn't suspect a thing before.

 

[Slowlane]

Then why did Bush bring the Times' boss to the White House to talk him into squashing the story?

Oh, right. He didn't want the terrorists to know we were looking for them. Because they didn't suspect a thing before.

Couldn’t be because it was classified could it?

 

[Gringao]

Then why did Bush bring the Times' boss to the White House to talk him into squashing the story?

Oh, right. He didn't want the terrorists to know we were looking for them. Because they didn't suspect a thing before.

Bin Laden knew he was a wanted man, yet he continued to use his satellite phone...until it was published that he was being tracked with it. Then we couldn't track him accurately anymore.

Unlike the Plame leak, this story being published actually harmed US security. Care to start a push to get Sulzberger prosecuted?

 

[garbage can]

Then why did Bush bring the Times' boss to the White House to talk him into squashing the story?

Yeah right, another urban legend created by the lefties. Oh, and the war is all about oil and Halliburton.

 

[The Mutt]

Yeah right, another urban legend created by the lefties. Oh, and the war is all about oil and Halliburton.

You saying it didn't happen?

 

[cjh]

Here's the problem Zip. I believe there has to be more oversight. Do I agree with his motives? Yes. Do I agree with his implementation? I don't know. It appears that congress had no problem until the NYT spewed it. It appears that the FISA court wasn't twisted out of shape by it.

That still doesn't mean that more oversight might not be a bad idea. That's the debate. Not impeachment, or censure, or the other moronic, knee jerk, reactions of the left.

Ishmael

this isn't quite true. rockefeller was smart enough to write a cya letter for that very reason. and he pointed out that because he could not disclose anything that he had learned to a lawyer, he could not explore its legality. that was a contemporaneous document, that reflected his concerns then, and not with the benefit of hindsight.

a court can't pass judgment on anything unless there is an action of some sort. they don't give advisory opinions. bush deliberately avoided the commencing any actions by deliberately not securing subpoenas. what the court may not have known is meaningless unless the practice was actually challenged in court.

 

[Gringao]

Yeah right, another urban legend created by the lefties. Oh, and the war is all about oil and Halliburton.

No, Mutt's right. Bush had Arthur Sulzberger of the NYT in the Oval Office begging him not to run the story because the program was supposedly still yielding results. Now it's not.

 

[The Mutt]

No, Mutt's right. Bush had Arthur Sulzberger of the NYT in the Oval Office begging him not to run the story because the program was supposedly still yielding results. Now it's not.

So the question is, why not get warrants? It's not the "terrorists are fast" excuse Bush gave. The warrants could have been signed 72 hours later.
Bush believes he is above the law. Always has. Look at his record.

 

[The Mutt]

No, Mutt's right.

Thanks, G. I think I'll save this to my hard drive.