brithright citizenship

[Pure]

Birthright citzenship (jus soli). Are you in favor? The immediate case is US, where Senator Kyl and others on the right are talking about revising/repealing the 14 th amendment that gave native borns--at that time, many slaves--full US citzenship rights.

but i'd like to hear from Europeans pro and con *as to their counry*, and what is their country's practice and does it seem just?

The US, by its 14th amendment gives 'birthright' citizenship for almost all cases. Not only residents, but visitors to the US, qualify. Obviously this is not done purely for humanitarian reasons; it was originally done to ensure that ex slaves and their children were citizens. Now it ensures additions to the labor force.

No european country has the pure birthright (jus soli, as it's known), but some have modifications of it, which are not too onerous, e.g. the parent living in the country for a specified number of years. An even less onerous requirement would be that the person himself have resided (legally) for a specified period, without problems.

Other countries reject the idea; you have to be already there, or related by blood, to be a citzen. A 'guest worker' would never qualify, nor her children or grandchilden.

===

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/01/ftn/main6733905.shtml?tag=contentBody;featuredPost-PE

WASHINGTON, August 1, 2010

Kyl:
Illegal Aliens' Kids Shouldn't Be Citizens
· Wants Hearing on 14th Amendment Which Grants Citizenship to Children of Illegal Immigrants Born in America

(CBS) Updated 12:44 p.m. ET


Sen. John Kyl, R-Ariz., said today that Congress should hold hearings to look into denying citizenship to illegal aliens' children born in the United States, as the fight over immigration widens into the explosive "birthright" issue.

Kyl told CBS' "Face the Nation" that he supports a call by fellow Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., to introduce a new amendment to repeal the 14th Amendment of the Constitution.

Support is growing for this stunning reversal from Graham, who in 2007 drew the ire of Republicans when he lobbied for granting legal status to 12 million undocumented workers, and along with President George W. Bush and Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., led the failed immigration reform effort that would have given illegal immigrants a path to citizenship.

The 14th Amendment was enacted in 1868 to ensure that states would not deny citizenship to former slaves. It reads, "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside."

Arizona's Republican State Sen. Russell Pearce - the architect of the controversial immigration law that was largely struck down by U.S. District Judge Susan Bolton - also separately proposed the same measure.

"The 14th Amendment [has been] interpreted to provide that if you are born in the United States, you are a citizen no matter what," Kyl said. "So the question is, if both parents are here illegally, should there be a reward for their illegal behavior?"

Kyl said Congress should hold hearings and invite constitutional experts to look at the state of the 14th Amendment. The growing support for the issue suggests the Republicans are exploring different strategies to fight the Obama administration's victory over the Arizona immigration law, after Bolton issued a preliminary injunction on key provisions.

Kyl is a supporter of the law.

"I think the court's decision was wrong," he said today. "The governor and legislative leaders have talked about possibly tweaking - to use their phrase - the law to see if they can obviate the concerns the judge expressed. I don't think they can because her decision was very sweeping.

"I think it more likely that Congress could act to actually fix the problem," Kyl said, "by reaffirming that it is Congress' intent that the law be enforced, rather than having the administration decide that they don't want to thoroughly enforce the law."

Kyl said his support of the law has to do with illegal aliens taking jobs that Americans want; immigrants posing a burden on the state in the form of education, medical care and welfare benefits; and crime. ==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli\
birthright citizenship = jus soli

Blurred lines between jus soli and jus sanguinis

There is a trend in some countries toward restricting lex soli by requiring that at least one of the child's parents be a national of the state in question at the child's birth, or a legal permanent resident of the territory of the state in question at the child's birth,[2] or that the child be a foundling found on the territory of the state in question (e.g.,see subparagraph (f) of 8 U.S.C. § 1401). The primary reason for imposing this requirement is to limit or prevent people from travelling to a country with the specific intent of gaining citizenship for a child.

Modification of jus soli

In a number of countries, the automatic application of jus soli has been modified to impose some additional requirements for children of foreign parents, such as the parent being a permanent resident or having lived in the country for a period of time. Jus soli has been modified in the following countries:
· United Kingdom on 1 January 1983
· Australia on 20 August 1986[2]
· Republic of Ireland on 1 January 2005[2]
· New Zealand on 1 January 2006[2]
· South Africa on 6 October 1995[2]
· France also operates a modified form of jus soli

German nationality law was changed on 1 January 2000 to introduce a modified concept of jus soli. Prior to that date, German nationality law was based entirely on jus sanguinis.[2]

 

[mynameisben]

I think that if you are born straddling an international border you should be granted dual citizenship.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Election year posturing. Kyl is an ass on this issue. Probably on several others, as well, come to think of it.

 

[Pure]

the more Rep'n posturing, exp. on the white's only issues, the better. let's watch the fate of ms sharron angle.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

The Democrats are poised to have their asses and heads handed to them.

The number one issue for everyone is jobs.

OBAMA/DEMOCRATS: Had Enough?

 

[oggbashan]

Born in a stable doesn't necessarily make you an ass.

There are so many exceptions to jus soli that there needs to be some clear definitions by the country's government.

If the parents are diplomats, or temporary visitors, then they shouldn't get, and probably don't want, citizenship for their child.

In the UK, I would expect immigrant parents to have made some effort towards obtaining permanent right of residence or British citizenship that would then entitle their child to be a UK citizen from birth. Just because a child is born in the UK, although that might be a factor in deciding the parents' status, shouldn't decide the child's nationality - on its own.

Sport has different rules. If you are of Jamaican descent, born in the UK to Jamaican parents who have become British Citizens, you could represent the UK OR Jamaica. If you were born in Wales, you could represent Wales, or Jamaica in the Commonwealth Games, and the UK or Jamaica at the Olympics.

Og

PS.

British citizenship by birth in the United Kingdom
Under the law in effect from 1 January 1983, a child born in the UK to a parent who is a British citizen or 'settled' in the UK is automatically a British citizen by birth.

Only one parent needs to meet this requirement, either the father or the mother.
"Settled" status in this context usually means the parent is resident in the United Kingdom and has the right of abode, holds Indefinite Leave to Remain (ILR), or is the citizen of an EU/EEA country and has permanent residence. Irish citizens in the UK are also deemed to be settled for this purpose.

Special rules exist for cases where a parent of a child is a citizen of a European Union or European Economic Area member state, or Switzerland. The law in this respect was changed on 2 October 2000 and again on 30 April 2006. See below for details.

For children born before 1 July 2006, if only the father meets this requirement, the parents must be married. Marriage subsequent to the birth is normally enough to confer British citizenship from that point.

Where the father is not married to the mother, the Home Office will usually register the child as British provided an application is made and the child would have been British otherwise. The child must be aged under 18 on the date of application.

Where a parent subsequently acquires British citizenship or "settled" status, the child can be registered as British provided he or she is still aged under 18.

If the child lives in the UK until age 10 there is a lifetime entitlement to register as a British citizen. The immigration status of the child and his/her parents is irrelevant.

Special provisions may apply for the child to acquire British citizenship if a parent is a British Overseas citizen or British subject, or if the child is stateless.

Before 1983, birth in the UK was sufficient in itself to confer British nationality irrespective of the status of parents, with an exception only for children of diplomats and enemy aliens. This exception did not apply to most visiting forces, so, in general, children born in the UK before 1983to visiting military personnel (e.g. US forces stationed in the UK) are British citizens by birth.

 

[Boxlicker101]

the more Rep'n posturing, exp. on the white's only issues, the better. let's watch the fate of ms sharron angle.

I suppose you are whispering your post because you don't really believe it. There are millions of legal immigrants in the US from all over the world - from Asia and Africa and Europe and Latin America - and many of them are not white. However, I don't believe anybody except maybe a very tiny fringe element, is trying to exclude the offspring of these legal immigrants from citizenship.

ETA: I don't like the idea of the "anchor" - a child born to illegal immigrants who sneaked into the country when she was pregnant in order to have their child born a US citizenship, thereby requiring that they not be deported, because they need to stay with the child. At the same time, I tend to look much more kindly on parents who have been in the US for a long time, even though illegal, who had children while they were here.

I have mentioned in the past that my wife has a relative who is here illegally. She and her husband entered with visitors' visas and overstayed for over thirty years, and have several children. What they intend to do is to have the oldest offspring, who is a US citizen, petition for them once he is 21 years old.

 

[bhurry]

I suppose you are whispering your post because you don't really believe it. There are millions of legal immigrants in the US from all over the world - from Asia and Africa and Europe and Latin America - and many of them are not white. However, I don't believe anybody except maybe a very tiny fringe element, is trying to exclude the offspring of these legal immigrants from citizenship.

Amen, Well said. Nice to see the word LEGAL. I,m afraid a large element has forgot what legal means.

 

[fuckwaffle]

Amen, Well said. Nice to see the word LEGAL. I,m afraid a large element has forgot what legal means.

no, legal means you followed the rules to gain entry and plan to leave once your visa has expired.

it doesn't mean you stay past your visa's expiry date or gain entry into our country by sneaking over the border.

 

[bronzeage]

I held dual citizenship until the age of 21. At that time I chose to be an American citizen. The USA made the best deal, although the Republic of Panama's offer was very tempting.

 

[fieryjen]

It's a case of punishing the children for the sins of their parents. It is not a child's fault that their parents decided to be illegal immigrants, therefore they should not be punished by being denied legal status.

The problem lies with the parents being able to profit from their child's status as a citizen, even though that has been scaled down now that there is a minimum wait time of eighteen (I think) years. But I think that's where the work needs to be done.

 

[fieryjen]

no, legal means you followed the rules to gain entry and plan to leave once your visa has expired.

it doesn't mean you stay past your visa's expiry date or gain entry into our country by sneaking over the border.

Visa does not equal immigrant.

Visas are for visitors. Legal immigrants have green cards.

Edit - assuming the bolded sentence refers to legal immigrants. That's how I read it, anyway.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

According to Homeland Security Obama approves 125,000 immigrant work permits each month. When he brags about all the jobs he created, thats it. About 40K of them are for illegals who come over to Darth Sambo's side.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Quote:
Originally Posted by fuckwaffle
no, legal means you followed the rules to gain entry and plan to leave once your visa has expired.

it doesn't mean you stay past your visa's expiry date or gain entry into our country by sneaking over the border.

Visa does not equal immigrant.

Visas are for visitors. Legal immigrants have green cards.

Edit - assuming the bolded sentence refers to legal immigrants. That's how I read it, anyway.

That was what I meant - people who waited their turn and came to the US as legal immigrants, intending to live for the rest of their lives in this country. In other words, people like most of the ancestors of the Americans on this forum. Their ofspring who are born in this country should be considered natural-born citizens, with all rights and priveleges that accrue to that status.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

It's a case of punishing the children for the sins of their parents. It is not a child's fault that their parents decided to be illegal immigrants, therefore they should not be punished by being denied legal status.

The problem lies with the parents being able to profit from their child's status as a citizen, even though that has been scaled down now that there is a minimum wait time of eighteen (I think) years. But I think that's where the work needs to be done.

Try this one on.

If parents rob a bank should their children profit from the theft?

 

[jomar]

If life begins at conception shouldn't it be Conception Citizenship?

 

[colddiesel]

The current mayor of London and serial adulterer, Boris Johnson is probably Britains most popular and entertaining politician. He was born however, in New York of mixed British and Turkish ancestry. His Turkish Grandfather had the dubious honour of being shot, some say on Kemal Ataturk's instuctions.

Maybe the brits could export him to the US . He would liven the political debate up.

 

[TE999]

the more Rep'n posturing, exp. on the white's only issues, the better. let's watch the fate of ms sharron angle.

Never fail to play the race card when discussing illegal immigration. It casts the illegals as victims and people who want to enforce the law as racists.

People are getting wise to that red herring.

 

[fuckwaffle]

It's a case of punishing the children for the sins of their parents. It is not a child's fault that their parents decided to be illegal immigrants, therefore they should not be punished by being denied legal status.

The problem lies with the parents being able to profit from their child's status as a citizen, even though that has been scaled down now that there is a minimum wait time of eighteen (I think) years. But I think that's where the work needs to be done.

you are right it is not the child's fault, but if the parents had not broken the law there would be no question as to the citizenship of the baby, would there?

 

[fuckwaffle]

Visa does not equal immigrant.

Visas are for visitors. Legal immigrants have green cards.

Edit - assuming the bolded sentence refers to legal immigrants. That's how I read it, anyway.

yes it is. those with a green card are legal. also those with a valid visa are legal.

both followed the law in effect, where the others did not.

should those who did not follow the law be given special treatment by the law?

 

[Huckleman2000]

you are right it is not the child's fault, but if the parents had not broken the law there would be no question as to the citizenship of the baby, would there?

There is no question as to the citizenship of the baby, at least under current law.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Visa does not equal immigrant.

Visas are for visitors. Legal immigrants have green cards.

Edit - assuming the bolded sentence refers to legal immigrants. That's how I read it, anyway.

Legal immigrants also have visas and passports. They need them to enter the country in the first place. After they have done that, they can get green cards. I know this because my wife and I were recently joined by six legal immigrants from the Philippines.

 

[oggbashan]

Dentists are welcome.

My dentists were born Finnish. They studied dentistry in Sweden and he became a Swedish citizen. She remained Finnish.

They entered the UK separately on work permits and were given Indefinite Leave to Remain. After working for other dentists in the UK for some years, they set up a joint dental practice and subsequently married each other.

He applied to become a British Citizen. I was one of his sponsors. Now she could become a British Citizen if she wanted to be one.

They are good dentists and an asset to our country.

Og

Unfortunately they couldn't do much about my teeth - an active sporting youth and forty years of too many incompetent dentists have ruined them beyond saving.

 

[JAMESBJOHNSON]

Dear Reader,

OG believes everyone on Earth is nice unless, of course, theyre conservative.

 

[oggbashan]

Dear Reader,

OG believes everyone on Earth is nice unless, of course, theyre conservative.

Wrong. Unless they are assholes. Unfortunately most, but not all, of the assholes here claim to be conservative, although many conservatives would be horrified to be associated with the assholes' views.

I've spent the afternoon discussing the activities of our local "nominals" aka "toe-rags" aka "persistent criminal offenders". I don't think any of them would claim to be, or would vote, Conservative because they might lose their social benefits and unemployed status. Conservative they may not be. Assholes (or Arseholes in British English) they certainly are.

Og