Breaking into fantasy?

[Rob_Royale]

So, I'm having some success with my erotica on Amazon and other sites, and my historical pieces seem to be a favorite. I've been thinking about trying to break into mainstream fantasy fiction (read- non-erotic) with a Weird-West idea I've been kicking around for a while. Has anyone else tried this? What are some do's and don'ts?
My publisher doesn't seem jazzed about the idea, simply because you have to focus on one or another and keep releasing new work to stay in the public eye. As erotica is largely one-shots they sell easily, where-as fantasy fiction are commonly serials or trilogies.
Any input is appreciated.

 

[AlinaX]

Perhaps write some erotic shorts set in the fantasy world you are creating as a way to explore characters and aspects of the world.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

There's at least one professional editor reading this forum. @StillStunned?

 

[StillStunned]

There's at least one professional editor reading this forum. @StillStunned?

Different kind of editor, I think. I'm a B2B copyeditor and proofreader.

 

[TheOtherTeacher]

Float the idea of doing it under a different pen name?
If the fantasy stuff is a hit, you can keep it going.

If it's not, you haven't damaged your main reputation

 

[TheLobster]

Just write romantasy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Rob_Royale]

Float the idea of doing it under a different pen name?
If the fantasy stuff is a hit, you can keep it going.

If it's not, you haven't damaged your main reputation

That is the plan.

Just write romantasy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Going with fantasy horror.

 

[Rob_Royale]

I could have sworn I put this in the AH.

 

[Brandnewbuddy]

Phew, that’s a tough one. Cause your publisher ain’t wrong: one shot fantasy fiction is rare unless it’s a novella.

Now weird west is a bit more unique but the last big one I recall was the Heaven’s gate trilogy.

Not saying you couldn’t do a one shot and frankly if that’s your itch, scratch it. You can always have the plot wrap up and then leave a thread for a potential sequel.

What I would reccomend is keep the weird distinctive but light. Don’t go full deadlands. Otherwise you almost have to do a series just to justify all the world building.

Instead, I would recommend making the setting the traditional old west but with a fantastic element that’s new to the protagonist.

Like imagine Bass Reeves doing his Marshall duties when he finds the perp ripped apart and finds feathers near the corpse. He then encounters some strange women who he evades but not before they tear into him or his horse with beaks and talons. Then the book is about him evading this new threat while finding out about a hidden side to the west he didn’t know.

So the story is clearly weird west but it’s close enough to our world that it stands out while being easy to digest for regular readers

 

[anthrodisiac]

What I would reccomend is keep the weird distinctive but light. Don’t go full deadlands. Otherwise you almost have to do a series just to justify all the world building.

This. Soft/light fantasy is probably where you ought to start, just to get a feel for it, if nothing else. What you might want to do is create a world, minimal lore, then write a series of short stories set there (I'm with @AlinaX in that regard). Short story collections are fun (having done a couple myself), and it doesn't require a ton of buy in to enjoy. Usually people will like most of them, not all, but that's okay.

Trying to go one-off book is not necessarily a bad route, but you'd then either need to have the book be pretty long or the lore minimal, and most fantasy readers these days seem to be pretty into the lore. They like very intracate worlds with tons of history and stuff like that. It means that if you write a novel, people either won't bother, or they'll want it to be a series. Obviously, there are examples of this not being the case, but those tend to be authors who write within the same universe, even if the novels aren't technically a series.

But for short stories, you have a lot more leeway to not include massive worldbuilding by dint of the fact that they're shorter and the expectations when reading them are different.

I can understand your publisher's hesitance around this. Fantasy readers are a massively different subset from historical fiction, so your current readers might not be interested and give it a pass, and for the readers who would be interested, they would basically see you as an equivalent brand-new author, since you haven't established yourself in the space. Having it be fantasy horror makes it even more niche, however. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't do it. I'm always a fan of people trying new things.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

I could have sworn I put this in the AH.

You can report your own top article and ask the mod to move it. @ElectricBlue tipped me off to that one.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Don’t go full deadlands. Otherwise you almost have to do a series just to justify all the world building.
Instead, I would recommend making the setting the traditional old west but with a fantastic element

This. Soft/light fantasy is probably where you ought to start, just to get a feel for it, if nothing else. What you might want to do is create a world, minimal lore, then write a series of short stories set there.

This is sort of the plan. An anthology series rather Robert E. Howard-esque, with the American west as the setting compared to England/France that Solomon Kane stalked. My anti-hero is mysteriously cursed and disfigured, and the intro alone is the back story. The world will be built as I go.

 

[anthrodisiac]

This is sort of the plan. An anthology series rather Robert E. Howard-esque, with the American west as the setting compared to England/France that Solomon Kane stalked. My anti-hero is mysteriously cursed and disfigured, and the intro alone is the back story. The world will be built as I go.

Lore as you go can be a good approach. It usually means that when you bring up the lore, you're making it up more or less on the spot, which usually means you're tying it directly into the events somehow.

When you build out lore ahead of time, the incentive is then to find excuses to bring up that lore, because you put in a lot of time and effort to build it all out, and you want everyone to see all that lore. But lore, in my opinion, should always serve the story in some way. It's meant that a lot of the lore I developed over the years never sees the light of day, or influences things unseen, but it keeps the story tighter and the information relevant. And especially in a short story, that's crucial, because lore dumps take up more percentage of a short story than a massive series.

Just make sure you keep track of the lore as you come up with it. It's easy to have conflicting lore if you aren't tracking it and checking against existing stuff you made up.

 

[dirk2024]

I could have sworn I put this in the AH.

That would be your fantasy.


Or...your horror.

 

[dirk2024]

So, I'm having some success with my erotica on Amazon and other sites, and my historical pieces seem to be a favorite. I've been thinking about trying to break into mainstream fantasy fiction with a Weird-West idea I've been kicking around for a while. Has anyone else tried this? What are some do's and don'ts?
My publisher doesn't seem jazzed about the idea, simply because you have to focus on one or another and keep releasing new work to stay in the public eye. As erotica is largely one-shots they sell easily, where-as fantasy fiction are commonly serials or trilogies.
Any input is appreciated.

Can you create your own anthologies? A collection of short stories that revolve around your Weird West idea?

 

[Husky_Embrace]

This is sort of the plan. An anthology series rather Robert E. Howard-esque, with the American west as the setting compared to England/France that Solomon Kane stalked. My anti-hero is mysteriously cursed and disfigured, and the intro alone is the back story. The world will be built as I go.

No lore info dump a novella long before the real book starts? Hard pass...

Joking aside, I can't imagine you can truly go wrong with a light introduction to the new thing and explore it as you go. For me at least the story is more compelling if we get the snippets embedded in the lore. It keeps the story flowing, whereas an information block pulls a reader put of it. Unless you can tie it directly to the story, and tell it in a compelling way, you should only do a short information block as an introduction to a concept if there's no other way.

 

[ChuckWolf]

Looking at this 100% pragmatically, old west genre books are already a niche market and the fantasy/horror element reduces the potential readership even further.

Unless the muse/inspiration is motivating you to focus on this idea, I'd just put it aside and work on it gradually; adding to it when you have time and ideas for it.

That said, maybe run past your publisher the potential for the story to be adapted for movies/tv/streaming; there might be a bigger audience for your story in those media outlets.

 

[Rob_Royale]

Looking at this 100% pragmatically, old west genre books are already a niche market and the fantasy/horror element reduces the potential readership even further.

I'm not convinced of that. The Dark Tower, Deadlands, Rifts, Jonah Hex, Vampire Hunter D are all well-known titles in this genre and there are plenty on Amazon. Lots to figure out still.

 

[TheLobster]

Fantasy readers are a massively different subset from historical fiction, (...)

There is a genre that's sort of in between, though, and I wonder if OP can frame his work as belonging to it. I am of course talking about alternative history, which definitely does not shy away from supernatural or sci-fi elements.

It might be hard to break into that genre while this guy lives, though.

 

[anthrodisiac]

There is a genre that's sort of in between, though, and I wonder if OP can frame his work as belonging to it. I am of course talking about alternative history, which definitely does not shy away from supernatural or sci-fi elements.

It might be hard to break into that genre while this guy lives, though.

This whole thing sounds more like historical fantasy, which definitely has some overap with the historical fiction and soft fantasy crowd, and with horror elements you also pull in the historical horror fans. This sort of thing would have plenty of interest, I think. Kinda depends on how it's framed. But supernatural western definitely has appeal.

 

[JGittes]

I have no basis for commenting on this thread except that I own property where I hope to retire in Northern New Mexico and that I love the culture. It's true I'm already old and live in the UK, but life is full of contradictions.

There is a continuing show on Netflix that I've only seen the first series of, called Dark Winds. It's based on a series of books by Tony Hillerman that I haven't read, but my wife has. The show has five series, so it must be popular enough to greenlight that. It has a lot of the story elements mentioned in the thread, and I love it. I hope Netflix UK eventually carries more than the first series. It contains many of the elements discussed in this thread.

I know nothing about publishing for money on Amazon or other self-publishing venues. I do know enough about stepping out into the unknown, though, that the only guaranteed failure is the step never taken.

 

[Lifestyle66]

So, I'm having some success with my erotica on Amazon and other sites, and my historical pieces seem to be a favorite. I've been thinking about trying to break into mainstream fantasy fiction with a Weird-West idea I've been kicking around for a while. Has anyone else tried this? What are some do's and don'ts?
My publisher doesn't seem jazzed about the idea, simply because you have to focus on one or another and keep releasing new work to stay in the public eye. As erotica is largely one-shots they sell easily, where-as fantasy fiction are commonly serials or trilogies.
Any input is appreciated.

I'm just an amateur writer here on LitE only with no experience in publishing for profit.

But my first attempt to delve into the SciFi/Fantasy category with the Amorous Goods Challenge over three years ago gave me my ONLY Red-H story. It's received 23K views and 4.55/154 votes.

So, my words of wisdom would be: "You won't know how it will turn out until you do it."

 

[KittyOfSteele]

I don't know because I have no idea how publishing works with a publisher, but all I can tell you is that Robert E. Howard also wrote about detective Steve Harrison; quite a departure from Sword & Sorcery.

I don't believe in sticking things into different pen names just because you want to write on a different genre; names are deeper than that. I don't see why you can't give it a shot and take the risk. If it fails, no loss, just one more book out there...

Then again, I don't know about working with a publisher. All I know is that I couldn't care less about writing lore for a fantasy world. As someone who recovered from worldbuilder's disease after suffering it for years, I find it better to make shallow worlds with enough lore to entice readers into coming up with their own theories than go full J. R. R. Tolkien, Ed Greenwood, or Brandon Sanderson and answer everything. Pratchett, IIRC, improvised everything on the spot.

 

[TheLobster]

But my first attempt to delve into the SciFi/Fantasy category with the Amorous Goods Challenge over three years ago gave me my ONLY Red-H story.

I mean, you've got 75 stories out of which 62 are in LW, so you pretty much had 83% fewer opportunities than most other authors to have a reasonable shot at a Red-H.

...Wait! That can't be right.

Sixty two?! In Loving Wives?

Oh geez, you're a glutton for punishment

 

[Lifestyle66]

I mean, you've got 75 stories out of which 62 are in LW, so you pretty much had 83% fewer opportunities than most other authors to have a reasonable shot at a Red-H.

...Wait! That can't be right.

Sixty two?! In Loving Wives?

Oh geez, you're a glutton for punishment

I find it entertaining to jerk their chains, because the trolls are so easily offended.

Try reading:
"Pavlov's Dog -- 750 Words"
Her needs and routines might get a girl killed.

It's in LW for the last two years and rated 2.31 with 842 votes!