Birth control = abortion ???

[Betticus]

Maybe they've been watching Monty Python?

Answer my do you want a phone call thread..... NOW!

 

[Etoile]

I wonder if HHS is really at the point of considering this, as the article claims. Or is it just taking input from anti-abortion extremists and saying "yup, mm-hmm, we'll look into that." Because if they ARE actually considering this...*runs the "can you immigrate to Canada" wizard again* ...yup, I'm good.

 

[serijules]

Gee, why not just go ahead and turn the US into a 3rd world country where the catholic influence of "thou must have sex but not use birth control and thus churn out dozens of babies you can't afford to feed so everyone starves to death and dies of AIDS" is rampant and be done with it.

 

[Homburg]

The parts Homburg posted make no sense without at least the next paragraph, so here is the rest.

It was a post with a link. I included enough text to get people to go to the link and read the whole post. I'm not generally going to dump a shitload of quoted text on the boards.

And it still doesn't make sense with the additional text because the premise is insipid.

 

[Guest]

I'm not surprised, either. More "be fruitful and multiply" bullshit. Not out of any real religious obligation, but the more poor people we can keep down, the better. Yay!

I really need to hurry up and get the tubal ligation before it becomes nigh impossible. The Handmaid's Tale, anyone?

Un-woman.

Total bullshit.

 

[Netzach]

Gee, why not just go ahead and turn the US into a 3rd world country where the catholic influence of "thou must have sex but not use birth control and thus churn out dozens of babies you can't afford to feed so everyone starves to death and dies of AIDS" is rampant and be done with it.

Well, it goes with our Latin American c. 1980's economic distribution. And the fact that we've pretty much green lit political torture when deemed "necessary."

Personally I think it's to ensure a large "cannon fodder" class. Since there's never going to be another draft unless aliens land.

 

[BiBunny]

Un-woman.

Total bullshit.

Hahahaha. I wondered if anyone was going to catch that.

 

[WriterDom]

This whole thing is fishy to me. A proposal to whom? Congress? It wouldn't get one democrat vote or a majority of republican votes. And I really doubt HHS has the power to do this own their own without a challenge from the courts.

Sounds to me that someone is trying to stir up the natives.

 

[the_mgp]

Ugh... too fucked up. The idea that a government has control over what's going on in my uterus is seriously fucking scary.

 

[Homburg]

Here's a few more on the same topic:

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/115438.php

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Family/wireStory?id=5382156

http://www.prlog.org/10090247-senat...ans-to-obstruct-family-planning-services.html

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1153ap_health_contraception_rule.html

And finally, here's the link to the document in
question:

http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/emailphotos/pdf/HHS-45-CFR.pdf

Now, something to keep in mind is that this was a
leaked document and the HHS hasn't actually
acknowledged it as one of theirs, thus it could be a
fake. I don't really think it is, but the possibility
is there.

This was posted on Midori's mailing list. The links have some more info on it.

 

[Homburg]

This whole thing is fishy to me. A proposal to whom? Congress? It wouldn't get one democrat vote or a majority of republican votes. And I really doubt HHS has the power to do this own their own without a challenge from the courts.

Sounds to me that someone is trying to stir up the natives.

Very few depts can do anything without worry of challenge in the courts. The HHS can, however, do such a thing. The president can do it via executive order. And either can be challenged in court.

 

[DeservingBitch]

I'm not surprised, either. More "be fruitful and multiply" bullshit. Not out of any real religious obligation, but the more poor people we can keep down, the better. Yay!

I really need to hurry up and get the tubal ligation before it becomes nigh impossible. The Handmaid's Tale, anyone?

Good luck on that. I'm in Canada, where they aren't so anti-contraception as they are in the US and just generally better in terms of women's health care and reproductive rights, and I've been trying for the last two years to have the surgery, with no success.

First, it was we'll wait 'till you're 30. Now that I am 30, I apparently have to wait until I'm 35.

Because of course, I'll change my mind. There's no way a grown up 30 years old woman could possibly know for sure that she doesn't want to carry a pregnancy, right?

 

[Netzach]

Good luck on that. I'm in Canada, where they aren't so anti-contraception as they are in the US and just generally better in terms of women's health care and reproductive rights, and I've been trying for the last two years to have the surgery, with no success.

First, it was we'll wait 'till you're 30. Now that I am 30, I apparently have to wait until I'm 35.

Because of course, I'll change my mind. There's no way a grown up 30 years old woman could possibly know for sure that she doesn't want to carry a pregnancy, right?

Advice:

Be a man. M got no bingo when he wanted to snip.

Or get sick. If you're not sick, say you have a gramma with some horrid genetically carried disease or something.

 

[DeservingBitch]

Advice:

Be a man. M got no bingo when he wanted to snip.

Or get sick. If you're not sick, say you have a gramma with some horrid genetically carried disease or something.

I was thinking recently that I could actually just tell them I'm a sex-worker and that I don't want to accidently get pregnant from a john.

I think that this would probably work. People - even the most zealous pro-life ones - tend to not like the idea of prostitutes reproducing themselve.

 

[Netzach]

I was thinking recently that I could actually just tell them I'm a sex-worker and that I don't want to accidently get pregnant from a john.

I think that this would probably work.

There you go!

 

[caela]

Because of course, I'll change my mind. There's no way a grown up 30 years old woman could possibly know for sure that she doesn't want to carry a pregnancy, right?

Hehehe...I always hated this idea in doctors. If I could have gotten "fixed" I wouldn't be pregnant now. I'd have signed up for the surgery as soon as I had health insurance (of course this is a moot point since I work for a catholic hospital lol). I admit now though that I understand it a little better since I asked some of my docs about it.

It's really not so much that they think you don't know your mind as it is that they don't want to get their asses sued if you did change your mind. In theory a guy getting fixed can be reversed. You can reconnect the tubing and he has a chance of working again. With a woman it's not usually so easy since fixing us is, typically major surgery and they usually leave themselves with very, very, very, little room for error when they snip a woman's tubes.

In the end it really comes down to money and liability more than the thought that you might not know your mind about wanting children.

[/hijack]

As for the article itself all I can say is...that's fucked up. Birth control is not the same as an abortion. In fact if more women used it, and used it properly and consistently you should actually see a decrease in overall abortions because there would be a vast decrease in unwanted pregnancies.

The logic (or lack thereof) that these people use is beyond me.

 

[DeservingBitch]

It's really not so much that they think you don't know your mind as it is that they don't want to get their asses sued if you did change your mind. In theory a guy getting fixed can be reversed. You can reconnect the tubing and he has a chance of working again. With a woman it's not usually so easy since fixing us is, typically major surgery and they usually leave themselves with very, very, very, little room for error when they snip a woman's tubes.

In the end it really comes down to money and liability more than the thought that you might not know your mind about wanting children.

[/hijack]

No. I'm in Canada. We don't sue everybody and their neighbours over here. And with the public health care system, doctors and other health practitioners are better protected against law suits. Basically, they have to really screw it bad to get sued, and even then, it would be the state suing them, not a private individual.

So, it is really about stupid ideas of pussy=breeder that I can't get the operation done.

 

[caela]

No. I'm in Canada. We don't sue everybody and their neighbours over here. And with the public health care system, doctors and other health practitioners are better protected against law suits. Basically, they have to really screw it bad to get sued, and even then, it would be the state suing them, not a private individual.

So, it is really about stupid ideas of pussy=breeder that I can't get the operation done.

Oops, sorry, missed the Canada part. Well damn then your doctors have no excuse and are just being morons. I'd say by 30 if you don't want kids then you're pretty damned likely not to change your mind.

Sometimes doctors are just morons with more schooling than the average joe.