Bernie!

[BotanyBoy]

i would think the numero uno reason to vote for a person for president is Pot. that is what a mature, thinking person would come up with. There are no other issues facing the country right now.

One of which is money and jobs, that something legalizing pot would help out in more so than any of the bullshit the GOP it talking about. Like hundreds of billions a year. It's a ridiculously easy improvement with immediate money savings/generation......not to mention how many resources it would free up to go fight actual crimes.

But we all know conservatives...they will fight money saving/making to the bitter end so they can keep sucking up all that gubbmint funding for their precious war on drugs. And why bust robbers and rapist when you can fuck with potheads?

LOL RW hypocrisy is simply unmatched when it comes to the WOD.

 

[JackLuis]

Sanders invokes FDR to defend democratic socialism

Bernie Sanders sought to wrap himself in the mantle of Franklin D. Roosevelt on Thursday afternoon, seeding a long-anticipated speech about his brand of democratic socialism with references to the successful efforts by the New Deal architect — who has also featured in Hillary Clinton’s campaign — to end the Great Depression.

“Against the ferocious opposition of the ruling class of his day, people he called economic royalists, Roosevelt implemented a series of programs that put millions of people back to work, took them out of poverty, and restored our faith in government. He redefined the relationship of the federal government to the people of our nation. He combatted cynicism, fear and despair. He reinvigorated democracy. He transformed the country, and that is what we have to do today,” said the Vermont senator, an independent who caucuses with Democrats while identifying as a democratic socialist.

 

[DooleyDarter]

One of which is money and jobs, that something legalizing pot would help out in more so than any of the bullshit the GOP it talking about. Like hundreds of billions a year. It's a ridiculously easy improvement with immediate money savings/generation......not to mention how many resources it would free up to go fight actual crimes.

But we all know conservatives...they will fight money saving/making to the bitter end so they can keep sucking up all that gubbmint funding for their precious war on drugs. And why bust robbers and rapist when you can fuck with potheads?

LOL RW hypocrisy is simply unmatched when it comes to the WOD.

I could give a flying fuck less if pot is legalized, but it really fucked up if that is all a person cares about when it comes to voting. I pretty much feel the same way when it comes to killing babies.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I could give a flying fuck less if pot is legalized, but it really fucked up if that is all a person cares about when it comes to voting. I pretty much feel the same way when it comes to killing babies.

Why? It's easily one of the more important things a president could realistically hope to accomplish.

 

[JackLuis]

I could give a flying fuck less if pot is legalized, but it really fucked up if that is all a person cares about when it comes to voting. I pretty much feel the same way when it comes to killing babies.

I guess you haven't read much of the thread. MJ is just a peripheral issue that may effect a lot of people and Bernie is trying to correct the Anslinger legacy of misrepresenting MJ as a "Dangerous Drug" when it is not.

Should our government promote a lie just because it helps the wood pulp and synthetic fiber industries while targeting minorities and suppressing legitimate medical research?

He also wants to stop subsidizing oil and corporate industries. He wants a reasonable Tax policy that supports the middle classes and not the 1% who don't need the governments help.

 

[about_average]

I could give a flying fuck less if pot is legalized, but it really fucked up if that is all a person cares about when it comes to voting.

I'm still waiting for you to point out where anyone said Sanders should be president because he wants it legalized, as you claim.

 

[BotanyBoy]

I could give a flying fuck less if pot is legalized,

Seem pretty bent out of shape to me....

but it really fucked up if that is all a person cares about when it comes to voting.

Why? It's huge savings for the government and mega bux/opportunity for the people.

You have some other super easy few hundred billion a year fixes to deal with that prevent this topic from being addressed?

I pretty much feel the same way when it comes to killing babies.

If only the two were remotely comparable.

 

[Iceprincess12]

Seem pretty bent out of shape to me....



Why? It's huge savings for the government and mega bux/opportunity for the people.

You have some other super easy few hundred billion a year fixes to deal with that prevent this topic from being addressed?





If only the two were remotely comparable.

*wave*

 

[Sean Renaud]

Why? It's huge savings for the government and mega bux/opportunity for the people.

You have some other super easy few hundred billion a year fixes to deal with that prevent this topic from being addressed?

Two things seem worth pointing out at this moment. The first is that I'm not 100% certain it's savings for the government at all.

Second and this is more important. Unless you're doing some bizarre quadruple counting method it's not hundreds of billions a year. It simply isn't. Using the minimal threshold for hundreds of billions being TWO that's still a third of the military budget or most of the Medicaid.

Now if you've got some math that says we'd save X by not having these guys in jail, gain X by these guys paying taxes and having jobs, then some odd multiplier maybe you're on to something but. . .yeah otherwise I'm not buying your math bro.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Two things seem worth pointing out at this moment. The first is that I'm not 100% certain it's savings for the government at all.

almost 36 billion spent on the war on drugs this year alone.

http://www.drugsense.org/cms/wodclock

About 80% of the cost of the war on drugs and about 1/2 the arrests are the war on cannabis.

Second and this is more important. Unless you're doing some bizarre quadruple counting method it's not hundreds of billions a year. It simply isn't. Using the minimal threshold for hundreds of billions being TWO that's still a third of the military budget or most of the Medicaid.

Now if you've got some math that says we'd save X by not having these guys in jail, gain X by these guys paying taxes and having jobs, then some odd multiplier maybe you're on to something but. . .yeah otherwise I'm not buying your math bro.

CA's cannabis industry alone is pulling an estimated 42 billion a year. CO is worth another 8, WA 9

How much you want to bet the eastern seaboard is worth at least 50 billion? Another 30 in the south, 30 in the midwest......EASY.

I really don't think the LEO/incarceration/prosecution savings + money made legal to circulate grand totaling out over a couple hundred billion is that absurd of a number....

I mean booze does 400 billion a year in business.....I don't see what's so absurd about estimating weed doing 1/2 as much or better. I actually think it's a pretty conservative estimate and I'd bet money the year feds legalize it pulls over 300 billion if they manage to not let either side of the isle fuck this thing up too bad.

 

[Sean Renaud]

36 billion + 120 billion=/=200 billion. I'm sorry that's just the math of your estimate and that's giving it the minimum threshhold possible for your words to be technically correct if inaccurate. (Kinda like that whole whites will be a minority in 2050 line. I'm sorry 49% doth not a minority make in a society with more than two kinds of people.)

The war on drugs would of course carry on (as well it should) under another name and MJ isn't the only drug in the world anyway. Most of us agree that heroine is nasty stuff. (Now since all my information on that comes from the same lying liars who tell me weed will turn you into a werewolf that too may be inaccurate but we're talking perceptions not reality anyway.) So there are still drugs we don't want people getting at all or certainly not over the counter. In addition alcoholic anonymous exists and presumably there would/will be similar groups for people who just aren't responsible enough to handle weed and what not. So not ALL of your projected 36 billion dollars is going to be saved.

In addition how much money is the government going to lose? We know that prisons are for profit in this country and clearly enough profit that government is happy to make laws to put people in jail. So what is the revenue loss to the government over needing fewer jails? What are the job losses going to total up to?

The reality is that legalizing weed is the right thing to do and that's the reason we should do it. When it comes to savings, even the surface numbers give me pause and a little digging reminds me that economies are complex but everything is connected. You should be damn sure what that thread is connected to before you pull it is all.

 

[about_average]

No, all recreational drugs should be treated like alcohol.
Yeah, heroin (to use your example) is nasty, but much of it's nastiness, like most recreational drugs, is because people have no idea of it's potency when buying it.
"Easy" access to regulated drugs would lessen the incentive for people to be cooking stuff like meth.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Feel The BERN!!!!

Every day Bernie is advancing his agenda and giving a voice to the economically disadvantaged of this nation. As predicted those who say he is unelectable are giving ground and his base is growing.

"True individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence."
- Franklin D. Roosevelt

 

[BotanyBoy]

36 billion + 120 billion=/=200 billion. I'm sorry that's just the math of your estimate and that's giving it the minimum threshhold possible for your words to be technically correct if inaccurate. (Kinda like that whole whites will be a minority in 2050 line. I'm sorry 49% doth not a minority make in a society with more than two kinds of people.)

And those are rather conservative estimates.....

The war on drugs would of course carry on (as well it should) under another name and MJ isn't the only drug in the world anyway.

Yea, but it's the one the law fights the hardest and the biggest.

Most of us agree that heroine is nasty stuff. (Now since all my information on that comes from the same lying liars who tell me weed will turn you into a werewolf that too may be inaccurate but we're talking perceptions not reality anyway.) So there are still drugs we don't want people getting at all or certainly not over the counter. In addition alcoholic anonymous exists and presumably there would/will be similar groups for people who just aren't responsible enough to handle weed and what not. So not ALL of your projected 36 billion dollars is going to be saved.

That 36 had fuck all to do with HC. And we wouldn't get it all back because still war on drugz, but we would get most of it back.

In addition how much money is the government going to lose? We know that prisons are for profit in this country and clearly enough profit that government is happy to make laws to put people in jail. So what is the revenue loss to the government over needing fewer jails? What are the job losses going to total up to?

The only people loosing revenue on that front will be a few dozen scum bag billionaire republicans and like 3-4 of their scum bag democrat friends. That will save the government money, drastically reducing the man hrs, prosecution and incarceration rates will SAVE the gov money. The gov doesn't make any money off that....they spend it.

I'm not sure the government makes money at all, can you provide an example?

The reality is that legalizing weed is the right thing to do and that's the reason we should do it. When it comes to savings, even the surface numbers give me pause and a little digging reminds me that economies are complex but everything is connected. You should be damn sure what that thread is connected to before you pull it is all.

Oh a bunch of law enforcement and private prisons are going to lose their funding and a bunch of Republicans and a few Democrats will lose their jobs. That's the only reason it's still illegal at this point.

*shrug* the numbers are the numbers....point is it's going to put hundreds of billions into the economy and dig at least a 20 billion dollar tick out of the US governments ass.

 

[BotanyBoy]

No, all recreational drugs should be treated like alcohol.
Yeah, heroin (to use your example) is nasty, but much of it's nastiness, like most recreational drugs, is because people have no idea of it's potency when buying it.
"Easy" access to regulated drugs would lessen the incentive for people to be cooking stuff like meth.

And let's not forget who the biggest meth/heroine pushers in the country are....
http://vaxtruth.org/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/doctors.pnghttp://cdn2.hubspot.net/hub/255501/file-528104571-jpg/images/pharmacist-medicalbilling.jpg

 

[Sean Renaud]

Okay we appear to be mostly in agreement here so I'll just cover a few things in passing.

1. Strictly speaking the government doesn't make money at all. Taxes do not actually create revenue. Any country with a fiat currency (read: all the major ones) have exactly as much money as they wish they did at any given moment. That's simply how it works.

However speaking in "common" terms any time the government engages in an activity that ultimately creates more jobs and revenue than WOULD be spent doing it in the first place it's a wash at worst a win at best.

2. The fact that people ARE making money at this and might not be able to make equal sums of money doing other things is worthy of some consideration. I'm not a fan of the prison industrial complex but I understand that we need jobs in the country and that this is apparently something people can get behind. I mean I'd say we should hire more teachers but the reality is that important classes (bar a few) are rarely packed to the gills and we both know your feelings about underwater basket weaving and it's worth to society. So why not just throw the dumb people in jail and have the mean people keep them in? It's something most Americans find far more tolerable than Latino American History. Or open more restaurants. Or more resorts.

 

[JackLuis]

How about we expand preschool and primary education, as that's where we can most positively effect the youth of our country. By the time a kid is out of the sixth grade, he's set in pattern. Lazy and disinterested or industrious and motivated.

Cutting teacher student ratios to 1:10 would have great effect on our students. So we need twice as many primary teachers as we have now. that should add a heck of a lot of jobs.

High schools running 12 months a year would get kids off the street and 125% more information in the same time.

How about we start a Jobs program to save our wetlands, woodlands and prairies? This could absorb a shitload of inner city kids and teach them about the natural world. Also they'd be a great consumer force for all kinds of locally produced products, if we gave them a Buy American Store, run by our Walmartian trained reserve forces, that are only getting part time work now?

How about we eliminated the ceiling on Social Security participation? That would save SS for our grandkids and shut the congress critters up. they'd be too busy trying to figure out how to privatize the funds, but a few well publicized hangings may dampen their adore with graft and or misappropriations.

How about we pass a law to keep the Huckster/Limbauge/etc at least 100 feet from any microphone as a clean air waves rule?

How about we pass the "George W Bush Memorial Tax" increase to pay for the fucking war he started, so our kids won't have to be saddled with his debt? Everyone making more that 2 million a year would be at a 50% rate.

 

[about_average]

And let's not forget who the biggest meth/heroine pushers in the country are....

While I definitely have some issues with big pharma, at least they aren't the primary force behind organized crime, gang wars, street shootings, exploding prison populations and the myriad other things that result from the illegal drug trade which cost the US billions of dollars every year.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Okay we appear to be mostly in agreement here so I'll just cover a few things in passing.

1. Strictly speaking the government doesn't make money at all. Taxes do not actually create revenue. Any country with a fiat currency (read: all the major ones) have exactly as much money as they wish they did at any given moment. That's simply how it works.

Yea and they tax just because they like too keep people poor for fun.

However speaking in "common" terms any time the government engages in an activity that ultimately creates more jobs and revenue than WOULD be spent doing it in the first place it's a wash at worst a win at best.

I don't see any wash.....its' 100% expenditure, a welfare program for ReThuglicans. They are already on the gov dole why not just keep their paycheck rolling, shut this bullshit down and make them own their reality....they are welfare recipients.

2. The fact that people ARE making money at this and might not be able to make equal sums of money doing other things is worthy of some consideration. I'm not a fan of the prison industrial complex but I understand that we need jobs in the country and that this is apparently something people can get behind. I mean I'd say we should hire more teachers but the reality is that important classes (bar a few) are rarely packed to the gills and we both know your feelings about underwater basket weaving and it's worth to society. So why not just throw the dumb people in jail and have the mean people keep them in? It's something most Americans find far more tolerable than Latino American History. Or open more restaurants. Or more resorts.

Well if we are going to be that diabolical about it why not just exterminate societies unwanted for profit?

How about we expand preschool and primary education, as that's where we can most positively effect the youth of our country.

Because until we fix our education system the kids would see very little if any of that money. Admin and their contractor buddies would suck it up and beg for more. It would be throwing good money after bad.

While I definitely have some issues with big pharma, at least they aren't the primary force behind organized crime, gang wars, street shootings, exploding prison populations and the myriad other things that result from the illegal drug trade which cost the US billions of dollars every year.

Not gang/street shit....far worse.

The only reason it's illigal and filling our prisons is because some arbitrary organized crime members (the government) said no one is allowed to make money except the elites, and the rest were going to jail for doing the same shit they were doing.

Quit trying to put that market into the pockets of the elite (the real criminals) and alllllllllllll those other issues surrounding drugs? Evaporate until you're left with tax collection and health issues.

 

[NeverEndingMe]

yes, a 2nd non American as POTUS

 

[NeverEndingMe]

bernie, because having a job is too damn hard. long live socialism and welfare

Yea and they tax just because they like too keep people poor for fun.



I don't see any wash.....its' 100% expenditure, a welfare program for ReThuglicans. They are already on the gov dole why not just keep their paycheck rolling, shut this bullshit down and make them own their reality....they are welfare recipients.



Well if we are going to be that diabolical about it why not just exterminate societies unwanted for profit?



Because until we fix our education system the kids would see very little if any of that money. Admin and their contractor buddies would suck it up and beg for more. It would be throwing good money after bad.



Not gang/street shit....far worse.

The only reason it's illigal and filling our prisons is because some arbitrary organized crime members (the government) said no one is allowed to make money except the elites, and the rest were going to jail for doing the same shit they were doing.

Quit trying to put that market into the pockets of the elite (the real criminals) and alllllllllllll those other issues surrounding drugs? Evaporate until you're left with tax collection and health issues.

 

[about_average]

Not gang/street shit....far worse.

The only reason it's illigal and filling our prisons is because some arbitrary organized crime members (the government) said no one is allowed to make money except the elites, and the rest were going to jail for doing the same shit they were doing.

Quit trying to put that market into the pockets of the elite (the real criminals) and alllllllllllll those other issues surrounding drugs? Evaporate until you're left with tax collection and health issues.

Well, at least with big pharma's wrongdoing there's at least a chance of law enforcement handling it. i.e., if they fuck you over you can take them to court.
You don't see Pfizer and Eli Lilly out in the streets shooting each other and bystanders, or users having any recourse for being sold bad shit or getting ripped off.

I'm not suggesting big pharma take over recreational drugs, just handle them like alcohol. Regulated potency and no selling to minors.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Well, at least with big pharma's wrongdoing there's at least a chance of law enforcement handling it. i.e., if they fuck you over you can take them to court.
You don't see Pfizer and Eli Lilly out in the streets shooting each other and bystanders, or users having any recourse for being sold bad shit or getting ripped off.

I'm not suggesting big pharma take over recreational drugs, just handle them like alcohol. Regulated potency and no selling to minors.

I think that's a symptom of prohibition.

I don't think as many people would be out killing each other over the shit if they could just go down to the store and buy some pills/herbs/drank or whatever the fuck they need to get in a civilized exchange. It would be a regular bidnizz .

Would people still commit crimes for them? Sure but I don't think any more than they rob liquor stores and shit now. So not a cure by any means but I believe it would be an improvement.

 

[Sean Renaud]

Again, they tax primarily to keep the illusion alive for us peons. Seriously think about it. The government can print money right? We're not in disagreement about the ability of the government to simply will a trillion dollars into existence by merely saying it's there. A what? Nineteen trillion dollar debt and half trillion dollar deficit reminds us that they can do this.

The TRUE purpose of taxing is to minimize inflation. You're not REALLY taking money from person A and giving it to person B. That's just just some Criss Angel mind games. They take money from person A throw it in a furnace and then tell person B that they have some money.

While I agree that they are kinda sorta welfare recipients this is Matrix shit. Some people are so hopelessly completely dependent on the system that unjacking them is dangerous to everybody.

Who really cares if the kids see ANY of the money in this particular equation? The point I was making is that we live in a society where you gotta earn your money, even if it's more trouble for society as a whole to find a way for you to earn it than not. That's one of the real secrets of prison. It's a way for people to earn money. You could bulldoze it and replace it with a paintball arena or public access tv station or a gym to create jobs. We don't eliminate the unwanted for profit because that would be wr. .. wro. . .wur. . NAZI. That would be NAZI!

Honestly because as has been pointed out there are simply more productive choices. And at the end of the day that should be what things are about, an effort to be effective, because if it's not effective then it's defective.

As for Big Pharma and drugs what are you saying? Cus I've never heard you get pissy about the FDA so I assume you're not actually saying they shouldn't be regulated.

Speaking of regulations how bad did that bill Obama finally pushed through fuck you and yours? I imagine since I heard about it, even in passing it must have been absolutely devastating on your end.

 

[BotanyBoy]

Again, they tax primarily to keep the illusion alive for us peons. Seriously think about it. The government can print money right? We're not in disagreement about the ability of the government to simply will a trillion dollars into existence by merely saying it's there. A what? Nineteen trillion dollar debt and half trillion dollar deficit reminds us that they can do this.

The TRUE purpose of taxing is to minimize inflation. You're not REALLY taking money from person A and giving it to person B. That's just just some Criss Angel mind games. They take money from person A throw it in a furnace and then tell person B that they have some money.

Same effect. I still have many thousands of dollars less to spend.

Honestly because as has been pointed out there are simply more productive choices. And at the end of the day that should be what things are about, an effort to be effective, because if it's not effective then it's defective.

True...I just don't understand the need for this giant circle jerk. If it's really about effectiveness and efficiency direct deposit is about as good as it gets.

As for Big Pharma and drugs what are you saying? Cus I've never heard you get pissy about the FDA so I assume you're not actually saying they shouldn't be regulated.

I'm saying big pharma has more people addicted to anphetamines and opiates than anyone...they are the biggest drug cartel on the planet and they do it because they bought congress.

I'm not saying they shouldn't be regulated. I'm saying they shouldn't be regulated in such a restricted manner.

There would not be as much crime if people could just go to a pharmacy and buy their drugs like a normal person it would help reduce the black market violence because the black market simply wouldn't be as appealing as Wal Mart.

Speaking of regulations how bad did that bill Obama finally pushed through fuck you and yours? I imagine since I heard about it, even in passing it must have been absolutely devastating on your end.

Which one the Monsanto protection act 8.0? Did that shit go through? I've been busy and not paying attention to shit. Care to clue me in? TeH Hillbillah news network can be slow sometimes.