"Being human in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires...

[Nirvanadragones]

I'm in battle with self. An exam that I am studying for raised the following: "Being human in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires... " I prefer to leave out the rest of the quote for now, because that part to me, is not applicable right now, and might taint your replies.

I would like to hear your opinion on the partial quote, and I would like to hear how you would complete it, as well as ellaborate on it.

 

[rgraham666]

Ethics, a strong sense of of what is right and wrong. This keeps you from doing things that will have adverse consequences for yourself and others.

 

[Guest]

*deleted out of concern of ignorance*

 

[Alessia Brio]

I'm in battle with self. An exam that I am studying for raised the following: "Being human in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires... " I prefer to leave out the rest of the quote for now, because that part to me, is not applicable right now, and might taint your replies.

I would like to hear your opinion on the partial quote, and I would like to hear how you would complete it, as well as ellaborate on it.

When has being human "required" anything other than the biological characteristics that define our species? (Being humane is another story altogether.)

And when has the human race NOT considered its "age" to be one of uncertainty, risk, and supercomplexity? (Today is only "supercomplex" in relation to the past. That past was "supercomplex" in relation to its past.)

It seems to be a value judgment to even make such a statement, and as such, I am wary of whatever is used to complete the sentence.

 

[rgraham666]

I was thinking much the same thing, Alessia.

I think the 'supercomplexity' is more apparent than real, mostly because of modern communications technology. We see much more of the world than we used to.

But I'll stick to my answer. "Moral problems never change, just social ones" as Spider Robinson put it.

 

[Guest]

I'm in battle with self. An exam that I am studying for raised the following: "Being human in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires... " I prefer to leave out the rest of the quote for now, because that part to me, is not applicable right now, and might taint your replies.

I would like to hear your opinion on the partial quote, and I would like to hear how you would complete it, as well as ellaborate on it.

to finish the quote?

". . . that a really stupid and futile gesture be done on somebody's part."


Forgive me, it's been a rough week, and I'm in an Animal House kind of mood.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

*deleted out of concern of ignorance*

I'm upset that you deleted your post, Vella. I read it, and then went about my day thinking about what you have said, which made a lot of sense. You spoke about ethics, and what I would like to add, is my concern over how ethics is "learnt and taught". At school and in many tertiary educational facilities, ethics is something intangible. We talk about it, we know what it is, and how to recognise it, but I think we lack enough real life examples, and from an educational perspective, how to incorporate those real life ethical examples without it being theoretical and hypothetical. is a challenge.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

When has being human "required" anything other than the biological characteristics that define our species? (Being humane is another story altogether.)

And when has the human race NOT considered its "age" to be one of uncertainty, risk, and supercomplexity? (Today is only "supercomplex" in relation to the past. That past was "supercomplex" in relation to its past.)

It seems to be a value judgment to even make such a statement, and as such, I am wary of whatever is used to complete the sentence.

I hear you and I like how you think. I would like to ponder the quote considering where we are as a human race right now. (Although I acknowledge that it cannot stand in isolation. )

To add - from the same article:

"How do we go from homo economicus (subduing the Earth and one another), to (re)discovering what it means to be homo sapiens, with one another, on a planet called Earth..."

 

[rgraham666]

I hear you and I like how you think. I would like to ponder the quote considering where we are as a human race right now. (Although I acknowledge that it cannot stand in isolation. )

To add - from the same article:

"How do we go from homo economicus (subduing the Earth and one another), to (re)discovering what it means to be homo sapiens, with one another, on a planet called Earth..."

By deciding to. Although this comment might be taken out of context, human beings have will. They can decide to do things, and work collectively and individually towards that goal.

I think that a good start would be to change our drive to mastery from the world and others to mastery over ourselves, to change the internal instead of the external.

If we master ourselves, we'd lose much of the need to master everyone else.

 

[Alessia Brio]

I hear you and I like how you think. I would like to ponder the quote considering where we are as a human race right now. (Although I acknowledge that it cannot stand in isolation. )

To add - from the same article:

"How do we go from homo economicus (subduing the Earth and one another), to (re)discovering what it means to be homo sapiens, with one another, on a planet called Earth..."

Actually, if I may paraphrase the original quote:

"Being humane in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires... "

... I think vella & Rob were both quite right. Ethics and coping mechanisms are both critical. Add to that compassion. (The de-emphasized words are superfluous.)

 

[rgraham666]

Actually, if I may paraphrase the original quote:

"Being humane in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires... "

... I think vella & Rob were both quite right. Ethics and coping mechanisms are both critical. Add to that compassion. (The de-emphasized words are superfluous.)

Just so, Alessia.

As I've said before, my ethics are based on the idea that there's enough pain in the universe without me adding to it.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

... I think vella & Rob were both quite right. Ethics and coping mechanisms are both critical. Add to that compassion.

Agreed

 

[privyjo]

I have to agree with Alessia Brio - the correct word should be humane not human. I am human (homo sapien) but am I humane (kind, compassionate, merciful, concerned with the alleviation of suffering)? Being human does not automatically make me humane.

As for coping mechanisms - they are important to consider. However, not all coping mechanishms are conducive towards developing and expressing the traits associated with being a humane human. Childhood experiences are important but do not in and of themselves determine how humane an individual will be as he or she matures and passes into adulthood. Education, in my mind, has little to do with determining whether someone will develope into an humane individual or not. For me, it truly is the individual, the solitary human, standing alone, in solitude, looking within oneself, who must decide and choose how one will live one's life - in a humane manner or inhumane manner. The inidividual is responsible for determining the code of ethics he or she will endeavor to uphold as they move through life interacting with other humans, who may or may not possess traits associated with being a humane human.

Being a humane human requires courage, persistence, tolerance, acceptance, a willingness to learn and grow, an openness to others and their trials and tribulations, and a keen awareness that we are all just humans after all - and we all fuck up at various points in our life. So a humane person is kind, compassionate, and merciful - true now as it has been true through the ages.

Just my 2 cents and it all may bullshit

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I Education, in my mind, has little to do with determining whether someone will develope into an humane individual or not.

I adore your post, thank you. In response to what you said above, why is that the case? Why does education not have to do with determining whether someone will develop into a humane individual or not?

Don't we place too much focus on so-called skills skills? Those of you who are aware of OBE (Outcomes based education) will know that this particular method of education focuses on what a person can " do" rather than what they " know" and if used correctly, OBE should have the element of integrated learning - in other words: head, heart, and hand. (what i know, what I feel/ values, and what I can do)

I have seen OBE work, and I have also seen examples of it failing miserably when not practices correctly. However, which ever learning strategy is followed at an educational facility, I feel not enough provision is made for the real needs of the world.

 

[privyjo]

I adore your post, thank you. In response to what you said above, why is that the case? Why does education not have to do with determining whether someone will develop into a humane individual or not?

Don't we place too much focus on so-called skills skills? Those of you who are aware of OBE (Outcomes based education) will know that this particular method of education focuses on what a person can " do" rather than what they " know" and if used correctly, OBE should have the element of integrated learning - in other words: head, heart, and hand. (what i know, what I feel/ values, and what I can do)

I have seen OBE work, and I have also seen examples of it failing miserably when not practices correctly. However, which ever learning strategy is followed at an educational facility, I feel not enough provision is made for the real needs of the world.

I worked as a research administrator for a major university here in the US working closely with highly educated people - I think my view of education got a bit tarnished working so closely with some highly intelligent individuals. Intelligence is a wonderful thing and can lead to beautiful things but without heart - what good is education?

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I worked as a research administrator for a major university here in the US working closely with highly educated people - I think my view of education got a bit tarnished working so closely with some highly intelligent individuals. Intelligence is a wonderful thing and can lead to beautiful things but without heart - what good is education?

So called educated (skillful) people were responsible for slavery, the holocaust, apartheid, 9/11 etc . . .

Don't misunderstand, I am all for education. Facilitating adult education is what I do for a living, and I have devoted 12 years to it.

( Now I am waiting for the politicians amongst us to come and hit me *searches for protection* )

 

[AppleBiter]

Intelligence is a wonderful thing and can lead to beautiful things but without heart - what good is education?

This reminds me of something that I was thinking about just this morning -- Plato's Allegory of the Cave. Is education a responsibility? I agree that you must have some sort of heart, some passion for learning. But, doesn't an unwillingness to want to learn about anything express a disregard for fulfillment? I'm not talking solely about institutional education -- college, for example -- but, education in every sense of the word. Learning for personal betterment.

I think I went a little left field, here, but I did just wake up and I was thinking of Philosophy when I did, so how interesting to stumble upon this thread. Thanks, BTW, Vana . . . you don't see many philosophical threads 'round here. It's nice.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

My formulation of the "when was it ever not thus?" includes the word "hubris," as in, what hubris to think that the risks, uncertainties and complexities of the current time are greater than those which faced, say, a city of the Khwarezmian empire in the 1200s, when the Mongols were sweeping through the land, killing every man, woman, child and animal in any city that resisted - and many that did not.

I'll try not to turn this political, but must state that there's a fundamental dispute between moral relativism - the idea that there can be no common standard of what is right and wrong among humans so each person must define it for him or her self - and the idea that without some common standard of value those individual formulations are grossly inadequate. Several iterations of the relativist position have already been stated here. That these may be cast in a form that makes it appear there is no dispute on this point does not make it so.

I have argued that it is necessary and possible to elicit general ethical rules, protocols and mores, tentative and ever subject to revision, from empirical observations about the nature of humans, that is, observations about the few things that almost all of us have in common. I have made an incomplete attempt to do so here.

Without going any further on that point, I will try to say something useful here.

What are needed? Rationality and the knowledge that your purpose in life is your own happiness (meaning, "lifelong flourishing.") Balance, and a sense of perspective. Knowledge of history helps - the world did not begin the day you were born. An appreciation that knowledge is dispersed, and a decision maker in any field never has complete information.

The following items apply more to public policy, but "balance" suggests that individuals should recognize them: An appreciation of what I have referred to as three "existential realities" (which promptly generated a debate so I apologize if it does again, but I can't give my answer without stating them): First, scarcity - resources are and always will be limited, meaning there will be trade-offs, and priorities must be established. (The ultimate scarce resource is time - every human only has so much of it.)

Second, human nature is what it is, and self interest broadly defined is an intrinsic part of it - courses that require the creation of a "new socialist man" (or "moving beyond homo economicus") are doomed to failure. (Which does not obviate the need in individuals and societies for the "balance" cited above.) Third, every human has unique talents, skills, needs, desires, "holes in their head," etc. - one size fits all solutions are also doomed. These essentially add up to, "utopia is not an option" - but we can do better if we incorporate these realities into the policies

Finally, a passage I have quoted often here illustrates what I mean by "balance":

"For most people life acquires meaning (not just or primarily through vocation, but) through the stuff of life: the elemental events associated with birth, death, growing up, raising children, paying the rent, dealing with adversity, comforting the bereaved, celebrating success, applauding the good and condemning the bad; coping with life as it exists around us in all its richness.

"Aristotle was right: Virtue is a habit. Virtue does not flourish in the next generation because we tell our children to be honest, compassionate and generous in the abstract. It flourishes because our children practice honesty, compassion and generosity in the same way that they practice a musical instrument or a sport. That happens best when children grow up in a society in which (they see) human needs met by people around them."

 

[Nirvanadragones]

Thanks, BTW, Vana . . . you don't see many philisophical threads 'round here. It's nice.

You're welcome. And, it is nice, isn't it?

 

[AppleBiter]

You're welcome. And, it is nice, isn't it?

Very.

 

[privyjo]

So called educated (skillful) people were responsible for slavery, the holocaust, apartheid, 9/11 etc . . .

Don't misunderstand, I am all for education. Facilitating adult education is what I do for a living, and I have devoted 12 years to it.

( Now I am waiting for the politicians amongst us to come and hit me *searches for protection* )

Please don't think I am against education - possess a B.S. and a M.A.Ed. degree myself. And please do not think that I believe that education cannot influence a person to become a more humane individual. (God - then why do I hope to work in a third world country again?) In many cases education does help. Learning to read and write and do arithmatic opens the mind to new possibilites and new ways of thinking and hopefully a new way of seeing the world and the people in it. It is my hope that it does. But what I was trying to say in my original post is that, from personal experience, when I meet a person for the first time, their level of education does not tell me that whether or not that person is a humane individual. It is actions towards and interactions with other humans that reveal to me whether or not an individual possesses humane traits - or, for want of a better word, heart. And I mean actions and interactions that go beyond polite societal rules and manners.

So, do educated people possess humane traits because they are educated? I am afraid to say that - sounds a bit like snobbery to me - that only the educated are humane humans.

And the politicians - humph - let the windbags -er - the nice people - come and say their bit. Reminds me that I currently have a Yale and Harvard educated President - need I say more?
*running towards the back door*

 

[Nirvanadragones]

"Aristotle was right: Virtue is a habit. Virtue does not flourish in the next generation because we tell our children to be honest, compassionate and generous in the abstract. It flourishes because our children practice honesty, compassion and generosity in the same way that they practice a musical instrument or a sport. That happens best when children grow up in a society in which (they see) human needs met by people around them."

Thanks, Roxelby. I agree with the above. Apart from fundimental virtues as you have mentioned, there are some very important life-skills that I believe is not " taught" to our children (refer to educational, community and parenting responsibilities) And yes, I do believe kids need the practical examples and real life experience and opportunity to " practice" in order to really learn. effectively

 

[oggbashan]

"Being human in an age of uncertainty, risk and supercomplexity requires... "

The ability to make rational judgements about what has to be endured because it is beyond my power to change, what can be improved by my actions, and what is irrelevant to my continued existence.

Explanation: I can't change weather and climate, nor the interaction of nation states, major corporations or religious groups. I can improve my local community by participation and my immediate environment by careful action such as refusing to pollute and removing debris and litter. If someone kills their grandmother in a far away state that fact is irrelevant to me however much I may regret the act or the death.

Og

 

[Nirvanadragones]

The ability to make rational judgements about what has to be endured because it is beyond my power to change, what can be improved by my actions, and what is irrelevant to my continued existence.

Explanation: I can't change weather and climate, nor the interaction of nation states, major corporations or religious groups. I can improve my local community by participation and my immediate environment by careful action such as refusing to pollute and removing debris and litter. If someone kills their grandmother in a far away state that fact is irrelevant to me however much I may regret the act or the death.

Og

Your post reminds me of the serenity prayer Thank you, Og

 

[rgraham666]

Having been failed miserably by our education system, I have less respect for it than many. But I still have a lot of respect for wisdom, which is a different thing than education.

Plato was educated. Socrates was wise.

As I've said before the major problem with our education system is the paradigm it uses, that of the production line. Its goal is to manufacture human resources suitable for employment. And as all production lines do, if makes efficient use of the raw materials that can be used by the system. Unfortunately, it tosses without thought those that can't be used by the system. From society's point of view, that is very inefficient.

The better paradigm, as I've also said before, is gardening. Give people the right environment, the right food, the proper light and let them flower into human beings suitable for citizenship.

That would require more money and effort than our elites are willing to put out though. Plus human resources are easier to control than citizens. So my paradigm will never come to pass.