Being brutally honest… with myself.

[niteshade]

Warning: ramble ahead. If you keep reading, well, you were warned

The recent discussion in the earliest part of WriterDom’s “Dom shortage” thread https://forum.literotica.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=269325 got me thinking that maybe it was time to post the answers to the questions I came here looking for over a year ago. I have no idea if there are any others who, deep down, have the same reasons I did for being drawn to bdsm, but on the off chance that there are I am going to lay it all out here.

Lots of soul searching, questions, and a little experimentation among other things led me to this conclusion: I was not drawn to bdsm because I desired to serve, as so many do, or because I am a masochist or “painslut” as many others are… I was looking for two things. I was looking for someone to take the choices from me, so that I would not have to be accountable to myself for my own desires (which is not what bdsm is all about, really, now is it?) and I was looking for someone to want me enough to do that. I am not talking about me handing over the right to make my own decisions… I am meaning that subconsciously, I wanted that right to be taken from me by force.

What I mean by that second part about wanting someone to want me is that somewhere along the line, god knows where cause it is screwed, I began laboring under a few misapprehensions. The biggest one was that someone who would want me enough to take away all my choices really wanted ME. The next one was based on a feeling that I was unwanted, unloved, and undesirable.

These were not things I consciously thought about… I had to dig pretty deep to find them, and once I did, everything became much clearer to me.

The truth of the matter is, even if I did find a person who wanted to take my choices from me, I wouldn’t let it happen. I would hate it, I would fight it, and I would likely die before I ever truly gave in to it.

As for being submissive… well, I am not. Someone from this site told me once that I was a sub waiting to happen… that the right person’s voice would make me melt like warm butter on toast. (I wonder if he remembers that? LOL) But honestly, I just want kinky sex. Am I interested in bondage? Yeah, but I don’t really think that is an act of submission in the sense that I am bending to someone else’s will, because I am not. Do I like it when things get a little rough, and we both end up with bruises??? Oh yeah, cause wrestling is half the fun Do I love it when a guy grabs my hair and pulls when he is fucking my ass? You betcha… but its not because I am submissive to him, it is because the illusion of submission and dominance exists for that span of time, and it adds a little spice.

Now, any comments, questions, or observations are welcome, and please keep in mind before you flame me, I clearly stated that the above circumstance applies entirely to me and I am not foisting it off on anyone else, just sticking it out there in case anyone else is confused in the same way I was.

 

[fallon2]

We

are constantly changing and evolving and growing emotionally, mentally and physically.

Finding out who you are and what you want to be is a never ending process.

Believe in yourself!

I wish you the very best.

 

[DarkLadyOfDeath]

Another color of the spectrum to ponder...

Confussion, yes.

Very much confussoin as to "Why?" the ever unanswerable question.

Im still working on my own "why" but what I've come up with so far is in many senses much like your own.

I'm certaintly not the ultimate submissive.. 'nore can I honestly call myself the Dominant type. I'm floating somewhere in the middle.

where you desire the "illusion" of subserbviance... I don't even care in many instances. bdsm for me is a way of allowing my pain kink to come out and play in a positive form, with rules, and guidelines. bdsm in itself has only become accepted and idealized for me I guess you could say only after I found that the pain kink was among the majority... or at least certaintly not the minority of bdsmers.

As for others wanting me.. I've been in a similar yet all to different mind spectrum.. As long as I can remember.. and 'specially after I grew to the age of understanding what sex was.. and sexual desire.. I had no problems finding people who wanted me.. for my body mainly.. not my mind.. and just for awhile... or a trophy.

I simply can't be someones trophy.. And your physical attributes fade with age. Don't get me wrong.. I've used that body for gain.. and manipulation of others when needed.. but I've not liked it.. and I'de rather find somone who desires my mind more then my body to be bluntly honest.

Then you touch on the whole.. nymphoesque.. body/mind/sex thing.. and well this is where my self enlightening has come to so far...

So can I understand your reasonings and your own self ponderings?.. Yes.. and I think just about everyone elses does to.. okay maybe understand isn't the best word.. but.. follow your thoughts?.. yes.

hehe besides if anyone flames... they themselves are either.. shallow.. or self dilusional to their own inner battles..

 

[kitty4ever]

I think the hardest person to be brutally honest with is ourselves. I admire you for being able to do it. It's a hard path to take, but when done, I feel that it's for the best.

Your life is your decision, your choice. You're not a submissive, and I applaud for being able to make that decision. There is nothing wrong about just enjoying kinky sex.

Good luck in your endeavors, Niteshade.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Originally posted by niteshade and snipped by Sir_Winston54
The recent discussion in the earliest part of WriterDom’s “Dom shortage” thread got me thinking that maybe it was time to post the answers to the questions I came here looking for over a year ago. <snip>

Lots of <snip> things led me to this conclusion: I was not drawn to bdsm because I desired to serve, as so many do, or because I am a masochist or “painslut” as many others are…

I was looking for two things. I was looking for someone to take the choices from me, so that I would not have to be accountable to myself for my own desires (which is not what bdsm is all about, really, now is it?)

<snip>...And I was looking for someone to want me enough to do that. I am not talking about me handing over the right to make my own decisions… I am meaning that subconsciously, I wanted that right to be taken from me by force.

<snip>... Somewhere along the line, <snip> I began laboring under a few misapprehensions. The biggest one was that someone who would want me enough to take away all my choices really wanted ME. The next one was based on a feeling that I was unwanted, unloved, and undesirable.

These were not things I consciously thought about… I had to dig pretty deep to find them, and once I did, everything became much clearer to me.

The truth of the matter is, even if I did find a person who wanted to take my choices from me, I wouldn’t let it happen. I would hate it, I would fight it, and I would likely die before I ever truly gave in to it.

As for being submissive… well, I am not. Someone from this site told me once that I was a sub waiting to happen… that the right person’s voice would make me melt like warm butter on toast. <snip> But honestly, I just want kinky sex. Am I interested in bondage? Yeah, but I don’t really think that is an act of submission in the sense that I am bending to someone else’s will, because I am not. Do I like it when things get a little rough, and we both end up with bruises??? Oh yeah, cause wrestling is half the fun Do I love it when a guy grabs my hair and pulls when he is fucking my ass? You betcha… but its not because I am submissive to him, it is because the illusion {SW's emphasis} of submission and dominance exists for that span of time, and it adds a little spice.

Now, any comments, questions, or observations are welcome, and please keep in mind before you flame me, I clearly stated that the above circumstance applies entirely to me and I am not foisting it off on anyone else, just sticking it out there in case anyone else is confused in the same way I was.

Okay, I left more of your original post in the quote than I intend to comment upon, because I feel the context is important. What follows is merely my thoughts and opinions, garnered from more than a half century of life, and nearly a third of a century of kink. That said...

I was looking for someone to take the choices from me, so that I would not have to be accountable to myself for my own desires (which is not what bdsm is all about, really, now is it?)

You've made a very important point here that many k1nk noobs (to steal from another thread's poster) should consider before they go jumping into the lifestyle with both feet and a pair of matching purple leather restraints. BDSM is not, as you say, about shedding accountability or responsibility for our actions, thoughts or desires. They are still ours. If we're not comfortable with them, then we must either face them until we are comfortable, or exorcise them. BDSM is about two (or more) informed, consenting adults deciding to join their energies in a manner that causes their personalities, wants, needs and desires to complement and fulfill one another.

Somewhere along the line, <snip> I began laboring under a few misapprehensions. The biggest one was that someone who would want me enough to take away all my choices really wanted ME. The next one was based on a feeling that I was unwanted, unloved, and undesirable.

Somewhere along that line, you have also recovered from those misapprehensions. You realized that what you were likely to find, given your circumstances and self-image, wasn't "someone who would want me enough to take away all my choices," but merely someone who would feel empowered by your letting them take away your choices and make them for you. You also (apparently) realized that your feeling that you were "unwanted, unloved, and undesirable" would and could only be true as long as you let it be.

Over the years, I have seen both men and women at whom the thought of having any kind of intimate relationship made me shudder - from my point of view - but who had strong loving relationships with other people, many of whom were to me attractive or made me wonder what they saw and felt in their partners that they could overlook the surface that I saw and could not/did not penetrate. After hammering myself over the head with these examples for a couple of decades, I've finally begun to realize that some people are just more able (or willing) than I to disregard the wrapping paper and get to the gift inside. Part of their ability to do so also had to be met with the ability of their partner to accept themselves and know that no matter what, the person they were could be and was want-able, lovable, and desirable.

~*+*~*+*~*+*~*+*~

Now, having said all that... I hope this doesn't mean you're deserting the world of BDSM. While I agree from your analysis of your motives and feelings that you probably are not and never will be a submissive, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy WIITWD as a bottom - or even a top, if you feel like switching around sometimes.

Many of the self-proclaimed Dominants and submissives, and Masters and slaves I have met over the years were/are largely playing roles they had assigned themselves so they could enjoy topping/bottoming. To have the self-knowledge that you don't want to be a submissive, but that you do enjoy the bottoming role (and sometimes the topping role, according to your wrassling comment) in "rough sex" can allow you to enjoy your journey even more. You have dispelled the "illusion of submission and dominance" that was in your head, and can now accept, embrace, and enjoy what it was that you wanted all along.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey. May it be a joyous one!

 

[A Desert Rose]

You know, niteshade, it takes all kinds...

We don't all fit in the same mold, thank God, or it would be a pretty boring world.

Good for you and good luck. Just don't go away, you would be missed.

 

[FungiUg]

You say that like "kinky sex" is a bad thing!

 

[MissTaken]

Niteshade,

Your post leaves me in awe. Thank you for sharing so much of yourself and I am very happy for you , that you have found some of those answers.

Some people spend their entire lives wondering, not knowing and ultimately always traveling the wrong road and being hurt.

Many hugs to you,

MissT

And please, whenever someone says "just kinky sex" it implies that their desires and choices are lesser than those who are involved in D/s. If it works for you, embrace it and revel in what brings you happiness!

 

[Betticus]

The truth of the matter is, even if I did find a person who wanted to take my choices from me, I wouldn’t let it happen. I would hate it, I would fight it, and I would likely die before I ever truly gave in to it.

This sounds like a realization that this falls into the fantasy being better than reality genre.

Now, however if you were to just step sideways a little and found a person who was willing to be responsible for you, your choices and your happiness/well being. If you wanted to give that part of yourself to him freely and you trusted him to keep that safe then would you fight it?

Not to take anything from you but only to hold that for you for as long as you both are happy with that.

What would that make you?

By the way, kinky sex is good. Very good.

 

[Betticus]

Re: Another color of the spectrum to ponder...

Confussion, yes.

Very much confussoin as to "Why?" the ever unanswerable question.

Im still working on my own "why" but what I've come up with so far is in many senses much like your own.

I'm certaintly not the ultimate submissive.. 'nore can I honestly call myself the Dominant type. I'm floating somewhere in the middle.

Haven't I seen you post here before? It's been a while hasn't it?

Good to see you!

 

[AnelizeDarkEyes]

Hola chica.

To be completely corny...

You've come a longgggg way baby. *grin*

and I suspect the introspection will continue...

You amaze me.

I count myself lucky to call you friend.

~anelize

 

[Pure]

Niteshade,
Those are impressively worked out ideas, and they're quite refreshing.

I will comment on a few passages:

I was not drawn to bdsm because I desired to serve, as so many do, or because I am a masochist or “painslut” as many others are… I was looking for two things. I was looking for someone to take the choices from me, so that I would not have to be accountable to myself for my own desires (which is not what bdsm is all about, really, now is it?) and I was looking for someone to want me enough to do that.

Excellent points about the role of self, accountability etc. My impression is that the second desire is somewhat the old romantic yearning for someone to find one irresistable.

I am not talking about me handing over the right to make my own decisions… I am meaning that subconsciously, I wanted that right to be taken from me by force.

Yes, this makes sense. It's a theme that come up in some 'rape' threads. But this one desire of course doesn't give the whole picture; i.e., will the person, overall and on balance, really proceed to set up a rape. No.


The truth of the matter is, even if I did find a person who wanted to take my choices from me, I wouldn’t let it happen.

This is one item I find a bit problematic. The person who 'takes choices from you' in any strong, direct sense, is an assaulter.
He would not be either a sadist or 'dominant' person operating legally. ( Nor a libertine or sensualist.) These types demand complicity if not explicit consent.

Do I like it when things get a little rough, and we both end up with bruises??? Oh yeah, cause wrestling is half the fun Do I love it when a guy grabs my hair and pulls when he is fucking my ass? You betcha… but its not because I am submissive to him, it is because the illusion of submission and dominance exists for that span of time, and it adds a little spice.

I think this is an excellent point. I think you refer to a phenomenon that rather widespread. Personally my impression is that much 'dom' and 'sub' activity described around here, in fact has no one exercizing direction or control over the other. The two are kinksters in it together. In your words, they are fostering an illusion; in mine, enacting an imagined scenario involving the imagined assumption of and yielding to power.

Incidentally, I hope you're pleased with where you've ended up. Outside at least a couple boxes. Sort of like a person who, after hearing partisan stuff for years says, "You know, I'm neither a Republican NOR a Democrat."

 

[niteshade]

Re: Re: Being brutally honest… with myself.

<snip>
Now, having said all that... I hope this doesn't mean you're deserting the world of BDSM. While I agree from your analysis of your motives and feelings that you probably are not and never will be a submissive, that doesn't mean you can't enjoy WIITWD as a bottom - or even a top, if you feel like switching around sometimes.

Many of the self-proclaimed Dominants and submissives, and Masters and slaves I have met over the years were/are largely playing roles they had assigned themselves so they could enjoy topping/bottoming. To have the self-knowledge that you don't want to be a submissive, but that you do enjoy the bottoming role (and sometimes the topping role, according to your wrassling comment) in "rough sex" can allow you to enjoy your journey even more. You have dispelled the "illusion of submission and dominance" that was in your head, and can now accept, embrace, and enjoy what it was that you wanted all along.

I wish you the best of luck on your journey. May it be a joyous one!

Ok, first off... what is WIITWD? I have no idea what that means. LOL. As for me being a toppy type in the bedroom, well, the one time I tried that it was a comedy of errors that I didn't find particualry enjoyable, nor did it hold my interest. The wrestling I was talking about is more of the "yeah, you think so, huh? well why don't you make me??? " type. As for the illusion... well, that is what makes the game fun.

 

[Sir_Winston54]

Re: Re: Re: Being brutally honest… with myself.

Ok, first off... what is WIITWD? I have no idea what that means. LOL. As for me being a toppy type in the bedroom, well, the one time I tried that it was a comedy of errors that I didn't find particualry enjoyable, nor did it hold my interest. The wrestling I was talking about is more of the "yeah, you think so, huh? well why don't you make me??? " type. As for the illusion... well, that is what makes the game fun.

WIITWD is "What It Is That We Do" - just another euphemistic acronym for our lifestyle.

Forgive me, please. On re-reading, I see that I misinterpreted the passage about wrestling... in which case, I'll stand by my estimation that you will still be able to enjoy the bottoming role in rough sex, without the unnecessary (for you) baggage of D/s rattling around in your mind.

 

[niteshade]

You know, niteshade, it takes all kinds...

We don't all fit in the same mold, thank God, or it would be a pretty boring world.

Good for you and good luck. Just don't go away, you would be missed.

Awww ty Rose I don't plan on leaving entirely; I would miss you guys too.

Originally posted by Betticus

if you were to just step sideways a little and found a person who was willing to be responsible for you, your choices and your happiness/well being. If you wanted to give that part of yourself to him freely and you trusted him to keep that safe then would you fight it?

Not to take anything from you but only to hold that for you for as long as you both are happy with that.

What would that make you?

Well, actually one of the main points I was making was that I don't WANT anyone else to be responsible for me. I don't want to give that up... and I would fight it, because it is just not who I am to give it up. If that made any sense. And, I too love kinky sex


Fungi ... You know I didn't mean it that way.

MissT... thank you very much ma'am.

Anelize... you know I love you, and please keep in mind that all that whinning I do to you helps me come to these conclusions

 

[niteshade]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Being brutally honest… with myself.

WIITWD is "What It Is That We Do" - just another euphemistic acronym for our lifestyle.

Forgive me, please. On re-reading, I see that I misinterpreted the passage about wrestling... in which case, I'll stand by my estimation that you will still be able to enjoy the bottoming role in rough sex, without the unnecessary (for you) baggage of D/s rattling around in your mind.

No problem... and I certainly hope you enjoy your baggage .

 

[niteshade]

Excellent points about the role of self, accountability etc. My impression is that the second desire is somewhat the old romantic yearning for someone to find one irresistable.

Yes, that was exactly what I meant. Thank you for simplifying the concept for me

This is one item I find a bit problematic. The person who 'takes choices from you' in any strong, direct sense, is an assaulter.
He would not be either a sadist or 'dominant' person operating legally. ( Nor a libertine or sensualist.) These types demand complicity if not explicit consent.

Right.. that is what I was saying... that I thought (subconsiously) I wanted that, but upon reflection of the desire upon uncovering it, I realised that it would never work... there is ALWAYS a choice (IMO) and I very much doubt that I would ever really give in.

Incidentally, I hope you're pleased with where you've ended up. Outside at least a couple boxes. Sort of like a person who, after hearing partisan stuff for years says, "You know, I'm neither a Republican NOR a Democrat."

I am very much pleased that I have a better handle on myself, and hope that I can continue to work through any other issues I may have, in the hope that I will one day have a relationship I can be happy with. Oh, and btw... I say that very thing about my political leanings.