Being A Brat

[Vivantia]

-- "A bottom who enjoys struggling against control or challenging the top. Brattiness has a wide spectrum from the playful 'uppity bottom' to the smart-ass masochist. Some brats are 'testing' their dominant, others have a desire to be 'conquered and tamed,' while some simply do not wish to be controlled." --


Yep, first post, and diving straight into it.

So, I've never been interested in willingly submitting, and my favorite stories on Literotica have always been when it's a struggle of this sort. Usually under the non-consent/reluctance genre (The Rebellious Slave and The Last Tritan, for example!). The dominance isn't unwelcome, but I could never just give someone that control. I feel like it has to be taken from me. In my mind this would be border-line dangerous behavior and just not realistic. If I wasn't head over heels for a guy, madly attracted to him physically and mentally - I'd probably end up scared and regretting it. If someone were in the frame of mind to take control of someone, whether they consented or not, I feel like that's someone I should be afraid of (and in theory, I really, really am).

It's super confusing. If you don't consent, then they're not gonna go for it if they have a sense of morality. I know it's not a rape-fantasy because as soon as they had proven they could take control, I think I'd be more inclined to give it to them. But not before then. I always thought that what I want and what the BDSM lifestyle offered were two totally separate things, until I'd heard the term brat.

I started getting all these questions when a self-proclaimed dominant expressed interest in tying me up. I wasn't attracted to him, but since I'm kind of an asshole and super curious, I toyed with him. I told him I wasn't into him from the get-go, but I did start asking questions to provoke answers. What if someone doesn't want to LET you tie them up? How are you so sure you're dominant? Why would I ever submit? He called me a brat, and I kind of looked at him like... brat? Really? You just called me a BRAT? But then he explained and I was like... oh. There's a word for it?! And it has to be the nickname I had all throughout my childhood? Huh.

Am I crazy? I know I can't be, there's a whole genre for people who want the same fix I do. I'd love for anyone who feels the same way I do to let me know I'm not sick in the head - 'cause sometimes, it feels like it! I'm also curious to hear from those who've experienced the lifestyle and what their thoughts are on "bratty subs". And... if you're a submissive, what makes you want to submit to your dominant?

 

[barefootgirl69]

*smiling* I'm a brat! I'm sassy, and question and provoke. Sometimes just to get that spanking. Most of the time.

BDSM has many levels of everything, mainly because we are all human, and hard to categorize anyone.

You aren't crazy. For every dom that doesn't want to tame a brat, there are others who are attracted to them, as my last message just informed me.

 

[Vivantia]

Haha, thanks! I feel like I'd do the same - though I've never actually been spanked. I just really enjoy getting a reaction.

The more I read through the forums the more I realize how diverse and encompassing the BDSM community is. It's amazing ^_^

 

[barefootgirl69]

Haha, thanks! I feel like I'd do the same - though I've never actually been spanked. I just really enjoy getting a reaction.

The more I read through the forums the more I realize how diverse and encompassing the BDSM community is. It's amazing ^_^

Can you turn your PM on...or put me on your buddy list so I can send you something privately?

 

[CutieMouse]

I'm also curious to hear from those who've experienced the lifestyle and what their thoughts are on "bratty subs". And... if you're a submissive, what makes you want to submit to your dominant?

I don't understand brats or SAMs; I never have. I don't see it as playful, or fun, or cheeky - I see it as manipulation (even when it isn't intended that way). I had a brief relationship with someone once, who wanted me to struggle or fight back, and I remember being horrified at the idea. He wanted me to be a bit bratty, and my compliance actually annoyed him a bit. I couldn't understand why on earth I wouldn't just give him what he wanted...

When I'm in a relationship, I give my partner what he wants because it benefits us both to do so. We jokingly refer to it as a positive feedback loop.

 

[PDatura]

The best descriptor I've heard for 'brat' is 'someone who exercises creative disobedience.'

In my experience, there's a line every dominant has for tolerating brattiness, the line that, once you cross, they just get really mad or think you're an asshole (the mad part is bad if you have a hard limit of no play during anger, and the asshole part can just make a dominant no longer want to play, period). That line is different in every pairing, but it does exist.

For my part, brats are fun. There's usually lots of laughter. That said, I will personally never again commit to a brat sub, nor will I allow a brat sub to be my primary emotional partner; Sometimes I need someone who is dependably well-behaved or actually follows orders, lol! I'd need a less-bratty palate cleanser sometimes. But generally, the challenge is fun, and the play is a delight. I doubt I could ever be content with a sub who wasn't at least a little bit bratty.

Welcome to your brathood and our neighborhood!

 

[barefootgirl69]

I don't understand brats or SAMs; I never have. I don't see it as playful, or fun, or cheeky - I see it as manipulation (even when it isn't intended that way).

When I'm in a relationship, I give my partner what he wants because it benefits us both to do so. We jokingly refer to it as a positive feedback loop.

It's not something I put on just for a relationship. I'm a brat, period. Some men like it, some don't. *shrugs* My guy personally has no problem putting up with my sassy teasing, he loves it and we both benefit from it...we call it a vicious circle, my teasing turns him on, which turns me on. What more could we want?

 

[PDatura]

I don't understand brats or SAMs; I never have. I don't see it as playful, or fun, or cheeky - I see it as manipulation (even when it isn't intended that way).

This is the inherent issue, absolutely! Things can go from cheeky to manipulative very quickly. Some dominants have learned to be wary. Others have learned to love it! The best example that comes to mind are those who don't want to just randomly or capriciously punish; they'd rather you gave them a reason to pink that ass.

 

[CutieMouse]

This is the inherent issue, absolutely! Things can go from cheeky to manipulative very quickly. Some dominants have learned to be wary. Others have learned to love it! The best example that comes to mind are those who don't want to just randomly or capriciously punish; they'd rather you gave them a reason to pink that ass.

That's probably the main reason why I don't understand the brat dynamic... my lovers don't need a reason to "pink my ass". They can do it, just because they want to, no reason necessary. I can request it, just because I want to, understanding that him doing so is at his discretion.

It sounds terribly boring and egalitarian when it's written out like that, but it isn't. lol

 

[Vivantia]

I've never had a dominant, and I've never attempted at being submissive. We're at totally opposite ends of the spectrum, CutieMouse!

I've never had a sub/dom relationship, so I can't say from experience - but I think I could submit to someone if they were... worthy, if that makes sense. Maybe not totally, and definitely not without asking questions. I've always needed someone who doesn't question themselves, even if I do. Total confidence without being a self-absorbed jerk is one of the biggest turn ons for me. If I ever had a dom, I feel like I'd end up getting gagged - and then I'd be miffed, but still impressed that they had the gall to gag me in the first place.

So, what do you mean by manipulation? How can a sub manipulate a dom? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

 

[SpunThings]

I've never had a dominant, and I've never attempted at being submissive. We're at totally opposite ends of the spectrum, CutieMouse!

I've never had a sub/dom relationship, so I can't say from experience - but I think I could submit to someone if they were... worthy, if that makes sense. Maybe not totally, and definitely not without asking questions. I've always needed someone who doesn't question themselves, even if I do. Total confidence without being a self-absorbed jerk is one of the biggest turn ons for me. If I ever had a dom, I feel like I'd end up getting gagged - and then I'd be miffed, but still impressed that they had the gall to gag me in the first place.

So, what do you mean by manipulation? How can a sub manipulate a dom? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Most people need to have the right connection with someone to submit. This isn't that different. You wouldn't date a guy just because he wanted the role of boyfriend in a relationship would you? I'm not saying you're not a brat, but what i am saying is that just because you can't envision yourself just submitting to someone doesn't make you a brat. I personally couldn't do it without taking a good bit of time getting to know someone. I need lots of time to build trust. While the amount of time needed to build trust varies, most people need that first.

 

[SpunThings]

I've never had a dominant, and I've never attempted at being submissive. We're at totally opposite ends of the spectrum, CutieMouse!

I've never had a sub/dom relationship, so I can't say from experience - but I think I could submit to someone if they were... worthy, if that makes sense. Maybe not totally, and definitely not without asking questions. I've always needed someone who doesn't question themselves, even if I do. Total confidence without being a self-absorbed jerk is one of the biggest turn ons for me. If I ever had a dom, I feel like I'd end up getting gagged - and then I'd be miffed, but still impressed that they had the gall to gag me in the first place.

So, what do you mean by manipulation? How can a sub manipulate a dom? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

It is manipulation because the sub doesn't just come out and ask for what they want. It isn't bad as long as all parties involved agree it's ok. I call it playful, but for me there's never any outright disobedience. I consider brat disobedience, while some have a more broad definition.

 

[Vivantia]

Thanks Spun - that makes a lot of sense. You're right, I would definitely have to trust someone a lot to even consider submitting, or be in a situation where they could "force" me to submit.

 

[ktgirl18]

For me personally, part of the reason why I identify as a brat is that I'm a curious person. I like seeing what happens when I behave in x-manner or ask a borderline impertinent question. Like you, I like having the control being taken from me. I'm capable of obeying someone once when they've proven themselves to be dependable and trustworthy. My being a brat at times allows for me to figure that out. But it depends so much on the dynamic you and your partner are creating and want to foster. There's nothing wrong inherently with bratting or being a brat, as long as everyone involved consents and enjoys it and finds it hot.

 

[Submissive1tou]

I definitely have my bratty moments. Sometimes it's just to be a little cheeky and others because I enjoy the "control and tame" aspect. It's walking a very thin line at that point because he won't tolerate it from me as manipulation. My problem is the temptation to poke is too much for me sometimes.

 

[Setanta84]

I don't understand brats or SAMs; I never have. I don't see it as playful, or fun, or cheeky - I see it as manipulation (even when it isn't intended that way). I had a brief relationship with someone once, who wanted me to struggle or fight back, and I remember being horrified at the idea. He wanted me to be a bit bratty, and my compliance actually annoyed him a bit. I couldn't understand why on earth I wouldn't just give him what he wanted...

When I'm in a relationship, I give my partner what he wants because it benefits us both to do so. We jokingly refer to it as a positive feedback loop.

Yes. This.

I was with a woman once who saw herself as "bratty." It took about a year but I finally came around to the realization that "bratty" was her shorthand for "manipulative, psychopathic, and volatile."

 

[PDatura]

That's probably the main reason why I don't understand the brat dynamic... my lovers don't need a reason to "pink my ass". They can do it, just because they want to, no reason necessary. I can request it, just because I want to, understanding that him doing so is at his discretion.

It sounds terribly boring and egalitarian when it's written out like that, but it isn't. lol

LOL, yes, so boring and egalitarian how they don't need reasons to give you spankings.

Some people need the reason. Some don't. My issue is that I get to a point where a brat has given me enough reason where I just want to punch them in the face and then walk away. Incitement to actual violence is a hard limit for me. I've only had a brat ever push that button. It's important that I acknowledge that about myself and my limits, for the sake of all involved.

 

[PDatura]

I've never had a sub/dom relationship, so I can't say from experience - but I think I could submit to someone if they were... worthy, if that makes sense. Maybe not totally, and definitely not without asking questions. I've always needed someone who doesn't question themselves, even if I do. Total confidence without being a self-absorbed jerk is one of the biggest turn ons for me. If I ever had a dom, I feel like I'd end up getting gagged - and then I'd be miffed, but still impressed that they had the gall to gag me in the first place.

So, what do you mean by manipulation? How can a sub manipulate a dom? Doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Oh, absolutely you make sense. You're not alone! For me, a sub needs to be worthy, also. I'm not one to appreciate a lowly worm. I need some zest, someone who is strong in life but will still submit to my will.

Lol, you sound like you would absolutely get gagged!

How can a sub manipulate a Dom(me)? They do it all the time, or at least poor subs do. Topping from the bottom is real and can be destructive. Manipulating as opposed to asking for what they want (or begging) is problematic. And then, there are those who are just in it to hurt others, and they do that by subverting control and trust; I can't call those people 'subs' though.

 

[MistressBlaze]

Not all brats are manipulative, when I'm in sub mode sometimes I will be bratty,,depending on who the Dom is. My brattiness is playful. I enjoy wit and laughter and will use it with Doms that also enjoy those. However I know when to reel it in as I don't use it to get my ass pinked.

On the flip side I can enjoy a bratty sub if he is not doing it as manipulation. I won't tolerate that from anyone sub or Dom, manipulation, in my opinion has no place in a relationship

 

[ToPleaseHim]

I too think that brats are often manipulative, even based on the descriptions within this thread. I don't understand the appeal of a submissive who needs forced to submit. Bratty behavior reminds me of topping from the bottom.

I know there is a full continuum of folks within the labels D/s and BDSM, and to each their own. As long as both partners agree that the dynamic works, rock on.

In my current and past relationships, he gives instructions and I follow them. If I can't follow an instruction, it often distresses me because I am wired to comply, but we talk about it and move forward.

 

[SpunThings]

Oh, absolutely you make sense. You're not alone! For me, a sub needs to be worthy, also. I'm not one to appreciate a lowly worm. I need some zest, someone who is strong in life but will still submit to my will.

Lol, you sound like you would absolutely get gagged!

How can a sub manipulate a Dom(me)? They do it all the time, or at least poor subs do. Topping from the bottom is real and can be destructive. Manipulating as opposed to asking for what they want (or begging) is problematic. And then, there are those who are just in it to hurt others, and they do that by subverting control and trust; I can't call those people 'subs' though.

I want to point out that everyone manipulates to some degree or other in every relationship. Adding the word please to a request is manipulation. You're hoping someone will be more inclined to do something if you append a polite word to it. Using "I feel..." Statements instead of accusatory language when you want to communicate an issue with your partner's behavior is manipulation.

Topping from the bottom is just an indication that your partner is not living up to what they agreed. It either means you are not as compatible as you thought, or that you need to have a talk. If the dominant partner doesn't object to the bratty behavior that encourages play, then it is not topping from the bottom.

Both partners need to be worthy to eachother, and I don't know why that wouldn't be automatically assumed. There is something about being new to this that it is not automatically assumed even though in every other adult relationship it is generally assumed. Im not criticizing, just noticing a trend. I wonder if it is porn's fault, popular media's portrayal of BDSM, or what.

Then there's this popular idea that submissive's don't have strong opinions, or a strong will, or an ability to function outside of d/s dynamics. I think that comes from the misconception that to be submissive means to have a submissive personality. This is not true at all necessarily. Ones chosen role is not an indicator of personality traits, despite the vanilla use of the word submissive in that way. In BDSM it is not a descriptor, but a noun used as a title or name to a role.

Most submissive's don't drop to their knees to just anyone claiming to be a dom, and doing what they say.

I think the issue with manipulation comes when it is toxic, and involves behavior both parties agreed would not happen.

 

[Primalex]

It's super confusing.

For you it's confusing, for us it is the difference between a hot session and a lifetime sexual offender registration. The mere existence of the term "brat" does not fix this, because even if she thought it was hot the last 9 times, what about the 10th time?

I can't reliably estimate what a woman wants for dinner each day and I'm supposed to reliably estimate each day whether she is in the mood to have her clothes ripped of her body (which might even depend on the brand of the clothes)?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[M_SNashCouple]

Along the lines of manipulation, my Husband asked when I was looking at here and I told him we were talking about brats. I asked him if I was bratty. He said on occasion I was and he liked it. But went on to say that, before we recommitted to live a M/s lifestyle, I was a manipulative brat. I would bargain for things I wanted in exchange for sexual favors and rarely held up my end of the bargain. I never realize how much it hurt him. It never dawned on me how I was manipulating him. And it wasn't fair to either of us.

~JJ

 

[barefootgirl69]

I suppose there must be different kinds of brats.

My brattiness is more witty teasing than throwing temper tantrums and manipulation. Even this morning when he was reminding me of something, and I twisted his words adding the I was feeling like a brat, a stern 'brat? No' was all I needed to know this wasn't the time. Not because I was worried about a spanking, but because it would have displeased him. It's about the relationship and how much you care.

Be careful who your relationship is with, some can't handle it and I might have been allowed to continue. But I adore him, I don't want to manipulate such a wonderful man.