BDSM vs SSC

[sr71plt]

TPE. Isn't that what we used to do in high school in the trees of our friends' houses at night with rolls of toilet paper?

 

[HandsInTheDark]

TPE. Isn't that what we used to do in high school in the trees of our friends' houses at night with rolls of toilet paper?

You did it in trees? With toilet paper? Have I missed out on a fetish?

 

[txblush]

In the end, in a relationship, there are two people who decide what the relationship should be. If they can't agree, they don't have a relationship. If they do, and it works, then they are the experts on that relationship, and everyone else's opinions can go to hell. TPE, SSC, BDSM are initials that cover wide ranges of opinion and practice. One person's sane is not another's. Unless someone's overtly breaking the law or getting hurt (not oooh ouchie mmm hurt, but permanently damaged or unwillingly enslaved), I'd recommend not trying to decide what works for other people. Or trying to discern who has the power in a relationship, or even what that means.

My sentiments exactly.

 

[TxRad]

You can Google TPE and find 4 different websites with 4 different definitions. One I just ran into claimed the submissive in a TPE relationship enters into a lifelong commitment and does not have the right to leave. (Extreme, to say the least.) That's exactly the problem with "experts" when it comes to sex or relationships. They, like certain people here, think they have the power to define what a relationship should be.

In the end, in a relationship, there are two people who decide what the relationship should be. If they can't agree, they don't have a relationship. If they do, and it works, then they are the experts on that relationship, and everyone else's opinions can go to hell. TPE, SSC, BDSM are initials that cover wide ranges of opinion and practice. One person's sane is not another's. Unless someone's overtly breaking the law or getting hurt (not oooh ouchie mmm hurt, but permanently damaged or unwillingly enslaved), I'd recommend not trying to decide what works for other people. Or trying to discern who has the power in a relationship, or even what that means.

Write all the fiction you want - that's why we're here. But anyone here who confidently expects they understand anyone else's positions or relationships - let alone thinks they are in a position to judge the validity of either - badly misunderstands their own importance. Fools rush in, they do say. Try not to prove it, is my advice.

What you say is correct to a point but here is where we differ. What you get from fiction and real life are two different things. Most BDSM communities set out guidelines, not rules but guidelines, for personal safety. That is where SSC comes in. Under those guidelines half of the crap masquerading as BDSM here isn't.

I've been in the lifestyle most of my life so i am speaking from experience.

 

[HandsInTheDark]

What you say is correct to a point but here is where we differ. What you get from fiction and real life are two different things. Most BDSM communities set out guidelines, not rules but guidelines, for personal safety. That is where SSC comes in. Under those guidelines half of the crap masquerading as BDSM here isn't.

I've been in the lifestyle most of my life so i am speaking from experience.

I get that. I'm not asserting that communities and guidelines have no value. Enough people get hurt in BDSM, and I don't mean sore tendons, that people have naturally banded together to provide a place to look out for abuses and talk about what works and what doesn't.

I've had my share of relationships, and I've talked to dozens of people about their experiences, including D/s that went wrong, abusive relationships in general, people who need pain to comprehend affection or desire, and a few true sadists who needed to inflict pain to feel anything. It probably surprises very few here that a lot of what gets described as merely a kink is often someone's life-coping mechanism. The girl into rape play was probably raped and it probably happened young. The guy who can't get off unless he's spanking a girl probably had a very abusive father, and check his mom for bruises. The guy who needs women in high heels to stomp all over him - ask him if his mother was around much when he was growing up and what happened when she was. These aren't stereotypes - they've become statistical likelihoods in my experience.

Some of it seems manageable - she likes to be spanked, she's into cops and older men, but she seems ok and probably is. Some people you end up pleading with to get counseling, even when you have a sinking feeling that no counseling in the world is going to free anyone from those issues.

So yeah. Communities have a place. They can identify the predators and maybe figure out when someone's in trouble. (ANY time you see a women being isolated and not allowed to talk about what happens at night, it's a huge red flag.)

But that's nothing like the asshole on a website (especially this one, which is about fiction) who confidently tells you what is and isn't right. Especially in D/s - Doms can be a little complex, and subs can be a whole world of complexity . No "know it all" is going to be able to tell anyone else what the score is in their relationship. BDSM, D/s... they are not religion and they do not have dogma. They have practice. And like any other field, a lot of "experts" who will tell you "best practices" have ego issues or a plan to scam. Real doms only try to dominate their own subs, not everyone on a website. Anyone who's trying to tell everyone else how to do things, clearly hasn't tried a lot of dominance in real life. If they had, they'd know what they are trying is foolishness. You can only dominate the willing.

I agree most of what's written here is pure fiction and doesn't look SSC. But it's fiction and it doesn't have to. Laurel's rules are no getting off on murder, no one under 18, and forced sex is ok if everyone's happy on the last page. People posting non-con or wacky crazy crap in BDSM can feel free; if their audience doesn't like it the ratings will show that soon enough. But based on what I see looking around at ratings, the audience doesn't care. Maybe experts should take a hint.

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[Bramblethorn]

Over 4000 people have read the story so far. Out of them, about 100 have voted it at 5, and about 10 have voted it at 1, with nearly nothing in between.

What does that tell you?

9 out of 10 want this to be a BDSM story.

I'd be hesitant to interpret it that far. With a long story, those who don't like it will often stop reading before the end. It's hard to tell how the rest of those 4000 took it, but probably safe to assume that the non-voters are somewhat less favourable than the voters.

Even among those who rated it a 5, that doesn't mean they agreed with the categorisation; some might be people who like both BDSM and NC and aren't too bothered about category errors. I've had an occasional "not sure this story belongs in this category but I liked it anyway" comments from my readers.

BTW, if you're wondering why people are touchy about this: consensual RL BDSM is often mislabelled as abuse, with serious consequences. When abuse gets mislabelled as BDSM, even in fiction *coughFIFTYSHADEScough*, that adds to that confusion. For you, it's just a story; for us, it's something that can cause us RL problems by encouraging people to think we're rapists and abusers.

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[TxRad]

You are making the very strong assumption that I sit in a dark closet, furiously typing on a keyboard with my blinds on, oblivious to the real world, while you (plural) are the collective with all the real-life experience, and can speak for them.

The point I am making is that I trust that the readers are intelligent enough to make the distinction between fantasy and real life, and any other line of thought would be an insult to them.

Love,
Ala Moana

That is an assumption you can not make. Feedback from time to time proves just the opposite.

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[TxRad]

You are reversing the causality in this case. My point is that reading noncon doesn't make people act out the narrative.

Love,
Ala Moana

And you know this how?

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[TxRad]

Double-blind experiments have proven the opposite. People who are willing to act out a noncon narrative also happen to read and fantasize noncon more readily than people who do not. To take the discussion a step further, reading noncon acts as a pressure relieve valve to the vast majority of readers. I am surprised we even argue about such base case scenarios here. This is psychology 101.

This is from a recent study. Please ignore the terminology, as BDSM by today's standards is still classified as deviant psychopathy between/among healthy consenting adults (which many are trying change, but that's unlikely).

=======
...an interaction between psychopathy and level of fantasizing was observed for unrestricted and deviant sexual behavior, such that participants who reported high levels of fantasizing about these sexual themes were more likely to engage in that behavior if they also reported high levels of psychopathic traits. These findings suggest that psychopathy is related not only to interest in particular sexual behaviors, but also to whether individuals will translate these fantasized behaviors into reality...
=======

The source is pay-walled behind my sci-journal subscription, and I can't post a link here. You can go to the nearest university library and borrow the study.

I understand that the above will bring the ire of quite a few members here, but I'm willing to follow through with it.

Love,
Ala Moana

Ah, psychology 101. That explains a lot. Wait until you experience real life. You'll find the studies are not what they are cracked up to be. It's called real life experience. People are never what you think they are. This place (The AH) proves that beyond a shadow of a doubt.

You would be surprised how many college psychology majors do research right here.

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[sr71plt]

The point I am making is that I trust that the readers are intelligent enough to make the distinction between fantasy and real life, and any other line of thought would be an insult to them.

Love,
Ala Moana

I don't exactly agree with this but arrive at the same bottom line. If a reader can't make the distinction between fantasy and real life at literotica, I don't believe they are mature enough to be reading here and I'm not going to cater to them.

 

[lovecraft68]

Double-blind experiments have proven the opposite. People who are willing to act out a noncon narrative also happen to read and fantasize noncon more readily than people who do not. To take the discussion a step further, reading noncon acts as a pressure relieve valve to the vast majority of readers. I am surprised we even argue about such base case scenarios here. This is psychology 101.

This is from a recent study. Please ignore the terminology, as BDSM by today's standards is still classified as deviant psychopathy between/among healthy consenting adults (which many are trying change, but that's unlikely).

=======
...an interaction between psychopathy and level of fantasizing was observed for unrestricted and deviant sexual behavior, such that participants who reported high levels of fantasizing about these sexual themes were more likely to engage in that behavior if they also reported high levels of psychopathic traits. These findings suggest that psychopathy is related not only to interest in particular sexual behaviors, but also to whether individuals will translate these fantasized behaviors into reality...
=======

The source is pay-walled behind my sci-journal subscription, and I can't post a link here. You can go to the nearest university library and borrow the study.

I understand that the above will bring the ire of quite a few members here, but I'm willing to follow through with it.

Love,
Ala Moana

The problem with psych is they desperately try to quantify what many times cannot be.

I believe we are born wired a certain way and it will ultimately trigger when and how varies.

Example. When I was in second grade I had dreams of the cute little blonde girl who used to give me pecks on the cheek.

My dreams were of her tied to the cafeteria table, totally dressed except for being barefoot and I was tickling her and she was begging me to stop. I would wake up excited.

For any concerned that is not a cheap attempt to talk about underage sex, its valid to the conversation and I had no clue what sex was then.

In fact I had no clue why I was excited and thought I was um, 'hurt' down there

The point is at that age what the hell could I have ever seen or experienced to cause me to have bondage fantasies and a foot fetish at that point in time?

Nothing, so where did it come from?

I don't really know, nor do I care. What I know is professor I want to publish a paper has no friggin idea either.

Many in BDSM get offended when people say there is a direct link between BDSM and people who were abused as children, a lot of life stylers deny it.

I'm proof its true. Want to cross the pain pleasure lines and want to have it instilled in you to love and submit to your abuser? be a kid used as a punching bag at five years old.

To this day pain excites me in an unholy way, sometimes for pleasure in sex, sometimes in a sick adrenaline rush in a tournament and I know exactly where it comes from, but again a huge faction denies that for the stigma it causes.

Bottom line is we are what we are and we do the best we do with it.


Also common freakin sense a person prone to wanting to commit rape would find rape fantasies exciting duh, I hear women who like having sex with more than one guy like ....group sex stories

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[sr71plt]

There is no backward link between adults practicing S&M to being abused as young (the set of S&M practitioners being much larger than that of the ones being abused physically or psychologically when young).

This boggled my mind. How do you (or anyone) know the set size of either S&M practitioners or of those abused when young?

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[sr71plt]

Ah, you have a crystal ball and work in a circus.

 

[TxRad]

This boggled my mind. How do you (or anyone) know the set size of either S&M practitioners or of those abused when young?

They can't. They take a small sample of the few that will talk with them and apply that to the masses. One of the many reasons their whole array of conclusions are skewered to the end they want them to represent. The bell curve for humanity from the few who may or may not even be part of the curve.

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[alamoana]

zzz...

 

[sr71plt]

If you knew how close you are to the truth you would die laughing.

Love,
Ala Moana

I doubt it. I find any claim to know stats like that more silly than laughable.

 

[J_R_Ashunwhy]

Question:

Recently I got a comment that a story of mine should be in SSC (?) if I interpreted the comment correctly.

If anyone please enlighten me what SSC is, I would be grateful.

Here is the comment:

===============
BDSM ??
why is this even in BDSM ????? what happened to SSC
===============

Of course, conveniently, this comment was posted anonymously, so no way to contact the original poster.

Is this a troll or did I do something wrong? Just in case, this is the link to my story:

https://www.literotica.com/s/and-the-sun-set-east-pt-01

Thanks!!!!

Ala Moana

...oh dear. Okay, I attempted to read the story, and eventually had to read excerpts, or skim to not be sick, but I can see now why you've been defending the story so adamantly, as there are two very separate scenes, and maybe you are having a hard time distinguishing which comments are geared towards which sex scenes? O.O I would certainly feel better if that was the case.

The first few pages are absolutely, hands down, non-con to the point that they don't even fit the sites guidelines for non-con because they contain explicit and graphic rape. Two thirds of the story is: using rape...gang bang rape...repeatedly...as a means of torturous interrogation. The victim has absolutely no control, consent, or safe word to start out, she never embraces her captors, or takes any kind of enjoyment from the torment. There are descriptions about how the captors know the acts they are completing are immoral and sadistic, and that they enjoy the acts regardless. All of that boils down to...rape, not BDSM.

"Kiro was destroying not just her body but also her very soul, and with every thrust, he drove out of her what little love and trust in people Sonya had saved over the last two years."

...yeah. That. That's not sexy.

Now the second bit at the end between the two girls, could fit in BDSM as there is written descriptions stating that the acts are in fact pleasurable, and consent was given by both characters. HOWEVER, with what you put your main character through leading up to that point, I highly doubt she would want or enjoy ANY kind of sexual act with another person for a substantially long time. We're talking years...if ever. One does not simply shake off the kind of mental, physical, and emotional trauma described earlier in the story.

As a whole, the story probably should have been rejected as is, but the idea behind it would fit more in non-con. If your intent was to only continue with the ladies in your next chapter without any more interrogation rape, the category for that has not yet been decided.