BDSM subtle submissiveness test

[SimonDoom]

I posted this in the BDSM Talk forum but I'm posting it here as well.

I'm working on a story where a Dom is vetting/interviewing a potential sub, only she doesn't know that's the purpose of the interview. She thinks she's interviewing for a summer job. He wants to ask her questions or ask her to do tasks/test her for her submissiveness potential without her knowing what he's up to. Do you know of any resources that would be helpful for devising such a test or can you think of any ideas for how he would test her on this issue? What would he ask her? What might he ask her to do in his office that would discover whether she's a suitable sub?

 

[LupusDei]

Speculating with near-zero knowledge, I would think a lot of the test of this nature would be in secondary aspects of the interview not so much in the primary questionnaire posed for the supposedly real job, at least at first. He may make her wait, then again, now demonstrative for no good reason, order her around like telling her to sit on another chair for no obvious reason, subtle things like that.

 

[SimonDoom]

Speculating with near-zero knowledge, I would think a lot of the test of this nature would be in secondary aspects of the interview not so much in the primary questionnaire posed for the supposedly real job, at least at first. He may make her wait, then again, now demonstrative for no good reason, order her around like telling her to sit on another chair for no obvious reason, subtle things like that.

Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking about for an initial screening interview. The real test would be hidden within the cover test. I'm looking for as many specific ideas as I can get to make this plausible.

 

[Carnevil9]

He offers her a dish of M&Ms, but warns her to only eat the green ones. Then he observes how carefully she follows the instructions. If she sticks to the green ones, she passes Phase I of the test and has potential. Then he admonishes her for eating the red ones, claiming that was his original instruction. If she apologizes and accepts that she was wrong, she passes Phase II of the test. If he switches colors again and she again meekly accepts it, she is a keeper.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

‘Good morning, miss. Sit over there, please.’ - pointing to a visibly uncomfortable chair next to a sumptuous one that doesn’t get used.

‘Hand me that (office item on the desk top or table 1/2 way between the two)’. No please, no eye contact, without any doubt that it’ll be obeyed.

Watches reactions via in-office surveillance system on his/her phone. Near-IR looking for increased blood flow, recording hi speed & hi def to mine for microexpressions, eye dilation, voice stress analysis, etc after the session - lots of ‘spy tech’ of questionable value which might be used.

The M&M test is good too imo.

 

[SimonDoom]

‘Good morning, miss. Sit over there, please.’ - pointing to a visibly uncomfortable chair next to a sumptuous one that doesn’t get used.

‘Hand me that (office item on the desk top or table 1/2 way between the two)’. No please, no eye contact, without any doubt that it’ll be obeyed.

Watches reactions via in-office surveillance system on his/her phone. Near-IR looking for increased blood flow, recording hi speed & hi def to mine for microexpressions, eye dilation, voice stress analysis, etc after the session - lots of ‘spy tech’ of questionable value which might be used.

The M&M test is good too imo.

These are good ideas. I like the M&M idea as well.

I appreciate all this feedback.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

These are good ideas. I like the M&M idea as well.

I appreciate all this feedback.

Looking forward to reading the story!

 

[LWulf]

There's an underlaying fay concept here that kind of runs against logic for me. I'm not sure I can put my finger squarely on it, as such, but it revolves around the concept that anybody hungry enough to get a job, will put up with a certain amount of bull$hit. That doesn't have anything to do with their personal submissive nature.

As the character Winston said in "Ghostbusters" "If there's a steady paycheck in it, I'll believe anything you say."

In the same movie, in contrast, Janine replies, "I've quit better jobs than this" yet continues to do her work.

In the movie "Showgirls" Nomi Malone is interviewing for a stage show position in Vegas. A choreographer suspects Nomi as being a prostitute, so he barks orders to Nomi to get her to move to a further extreme, and when she doesn't he walks over and starts slapping her butt to get her to encourage her, which she allows.

Which reminds me of one real-life ballet dancer who was denied jobs in her field because she "couldn't stretch far enough" (in actuality they simply didn't like her looks or some other abstract and used that excuse to deny her employment). To which she would show she could stretch to an inhuman degree (she could splay her feet to greater than 180 degrees).

Is one more submissive than the other? Some might say 'yes.' Some might argue which one is more submissive. To the unenlightened, anyone who works for another is submissive, it just depends up to what point they break. I'm not sure if I'm trying to ruin your concept, or improve it by making it more realistic. That would depend on if there is a way to make it seem more realistic.

The point of some (all?) of these tests being suggested seem silly to me, in that regard. They don't really prove or disprove submissiveness, only how much bull$hit someone will put up with to get a job.

Edit: allow me to clarify, these tests might be ways to verify how submissive a submissive is, but not how submissive Joe or Jane Average is.

 

[SimonDoom]

T

Edit: allow me to clarify, these tests might be ways to verify how submissive a submissive is, but not how submissive Joe or Jane Average is.

Fair point, but that's all I'm trying to get at. It's not necessary for me to establish that whatever test he uses would, in general, ferret out the "real subs," whatever that means (I'm not sure it means anything). This is more of a dance, between two specific individuals, getting to know each other. He's immediately drawn to her, intuits that she has sub tendencies, and wants to find out if he's correct before making a proposal to her.

 

[LWulf]

Fair point, but that's all I'm trying to get at. It's not necessary for me to establish that whatever test he uses would, in general, ferret out the "real subs," whatever that means (I'm not sure it means anything). This is more of a dance, between two specific individuals, getting to know each other. He's immediately drawn to her, intuits that she has sub tendencies, and wants to find out if he's correct before making a proposal to her.

Things I've noticed D/S people getting all giggly about is when they have to push "submit" reply. Looking for a slight smile on hearing that she needs to "submit" the paperwork to the front desk, and after she submits to a few tests, blah blah blah submit, blah blah submit. But it still sounds childish. Anybody who goes to an interview is usually too uptight to relax enough and let their their hair down, by showing their hand.

If you're talking about "real subs" referring to what I was talking about realism, I just meant to take a more realistic approach to the story, instead of catering to fantasy.

 

[SimonDoom]

I just meant to take a more realistic approach to the story, instead of catering to fantasy.

This is always the challenge, though, isn't it? Taking a premise with some fantasy elements and presenting it in a sufficiently realistic way. A story can include fantasy without catering.

 

[yukonnights]

This is always the challenge, though, isn't it? Taking a premise with some fantasy elements and presenting it in a sufficiently realistic way. A story can include fantasy without catering.

I see what you're aiming at, but like you, I can't come up with the clever veiled questions to ask her in an interview session.

This thought just popped up; Would it be easier to offer her a one week or two week trial run at the job — for the sole (secret) purpose of affording him the time and opportunity to more subtly evaluate her? (for example; since they're now working side by side, he could carefully expand his requests to include non-work related tasks of a non-sexual nature, etc. As she does them, their interactions/conversations could slowly shift into a more non-sexual dominant and willing/eager submissive tone).

I like your idea and hope you can work it out.

 

[SimonDoom]

I see what you're aiming at, but like you, I can't come up with the clever veiled questions to ask her in an interview session.

This thought just popped up; Would it be easier to offer her a one week or two week trial run at the job — for the sole (secret) purpose of affording him the time and opportunity to more subtly evaluate her? (for example; since they're now working side by side, he could carefully expand his requests to include non-work related tasks of a non-sexual nature, etc. As she does them, their interactions/conversations could slowly shift into a more non-sexual dominant and willing/eager submissive tone).

I like your idea and hope you can work it out.

Interesting idea.

The good part of it is that my story wouldn't have to cover the whole summer, which might make it an unmanageably long story, and I already have trouble finishing the stories I've worked on. I could potentially post more chapters later.

But the negative is I don't want to spend too much time building up to the sexual aspects of the story. I'm not that patient.

I'm going to think about this.

 

[thenewerguy]

I think any scenario where the onus would be on the interviewer to do something, but instead the interviewee is subtly convinced to do it instead would work well.

For example she (I assume a she) could be offered a cup of tea or coffee when she enters the interview, when she says "yes" the interviewer could then thank her and tell her how he likes his, subtly implying that she be the one that makes it.

Or he could drop his pen. But rather than pick it up he could just look at the interviewee until she feels as though it is her that needs to pick it up.

In this case a more dominant person may just ignore the pen, while a submissive would perhaps feel awkward about it and want to pick it up for them.

Like others have said, doing things like getting them to switch chairs for no apparent reason may also work.

Obviously the problem is that a lot of people would put up with far more than normal in a job interview so it may not be the easiest thing to work into a story, unless you are doing it from the perspective of the potential submissive.

 

[LupusDei]

Obviously the problem is that a lot of people would put up with far more than normal in a job interview so it may not be the easiest thing to work into a story, unless you are doing it from the perspective of the potential submissive.

Yes, and the main risk here is mistaking simple helpfulness with submissiveness. Another thought that's nagging me thinking about this is, wouldn't the "real" submissive even put up a more demonstrative protest for attempted domination by a stranger than a regular person? Couldn't that even be a telltale sign, while a "regular" girl would comply with subdued signs of displeasure, the submissive candidate would be more emotional about it, going from surprise to protest to doing it anyway.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

If you’re looking to extend this scene over several days, comment on clothing the interviewee chooses. "That looks good on you," then see if she/he wears something similar. "That.. thing? C’mon, you can do better," then see it that shows up again. If there’s any work around others, use others’ outfits the same way. Does the interviewee comply with the interviewer, and to what extent? Any ‘rebellion’, and how do they react when corrected? Does physical comfort or obedience matter more - higher heels, thinner fabric in chill offices, etc.

An ally in HR complaints dept would be a useful stopgap if ina larger organization. A sole proprietorship may not have an official complaints process, for that matter.

Two desks in the same space? Rearrange monitors, etc to slowly move the interviewee where the interviewer can watch but not be watched in return. How does interviewee react? Zip ties to tighten cables under or behind the desk(s) may be useful here.

Reaction to physical contact?

Reaction when lunch/coffee is given to them, unstated assumption being they’ll accept it without complaint/consideration. If their acceptance gets habituated, can be route for drugged non con play if that’s what you want to write. Multipurpose skullduggery!

 

[Vix_Giovanni]

I realize this is a high level introduction to your idea and not the specific storyline, but I think the premise is off-balance because a sub picks her Dom too. Even if I suspend my disbelief about the office-based circumstances, I think I’d have difficulty suspending disbelief that the sub could fully trust her Dom under the circumstances. I think this idea would gel better if the relationship had a more equalized starting point.

Likewise, I think that the premise overlooks that there are many different types of subs. I think that you might end up polarizing readers if you don’t acknowledge this spectrum, since the Dom is doing sort of a “open call” for subs. Or perhaps, you could begin by specifically defining what type of sub this Dom is looking for and how this job interview process will attract that type of sub (and, more importantly, why a sub would want to submit to him).

Finally, I think the premise seems to presume that most (all) subs share parts of their submissiveness at-large, and will simply give pieces of themselves to any stranger with authority. Or that subs can’t distinguish between overbearing, unreasonable demands and dominance. That might be true for some; I doubt it’s true for all. For example, I would never make someone a cup of tea or pick up something dropped simply because a stranger was waiting for me to do it or trying to intimidate me into doing it, even if it happened during an interview for a dream employer/mentor. And my SO wouldn’t want me if I was the type that did.

I have a “vetting” operation that’s central to the novel series that I’m writing, between my FMC and her femDom boss. In my series, this vetting has been a slow process and the “tests” are fairly organic, in the hopes of making the resulting plot twists more plausible.

 

[UsuallyPresent]

Interesting, so instead of going for slowly investigating and beginning a single D/s relationship (which had been my going-in understanding,) the dominant doing the interviews is effectively in the midst of an open casting call with ulterior motives?

Hrmm.

Realistic time management issues aside, this would give you the platform to write about and investigate/demonstrate multiple types of submissive/submission (pick your term). IMO, it also becomes less romantic and more exploitative, or at least risks that. It potentially could include mind-control and/or non-con/cnc fantasies, if you choose to write them in. Hell, it could give you a 'logical' basis to write most anything in at that point - gay, group, exhibition/voyeur, incest, even non-human/scifi-fantasy.

But I'd be concerned about the verisimilitude of the results. It'd be awful easy to fall off into parody.

 

[SimonDoom]

I think this idea would gel better if the relationship had a more equalized starting point.

.

This is a good point. A way of dealing with it could be to turn it into a mutual interview: she suspects he is a Dom going into the interview (for reasons to be determined), and is interested, and is vetting him just as he's vetting her.

 

[thenewerguy]

This is a good point. A way of dealing with it could be to turn it into a mutual interview: she suspects he is a Dom going into the interview (for reasons to be determined), and is interested, and is vetting him just as he's vetting her.

i really like this idea. It would be a great basis for building up some intrigue between the two characters and hearing the story from both sides.

 

[Brutal_One]

The Train Delay

I wrote a story about a train delay. The idea based on a real event. In our carriage there was one pretty 20+ year old and 5 other guys me included. The guys were a range of ages and one particularly obese. Two older. One who looked pretty hard. The story BDSM was about getting her to please each of us in turn. I had created an idea which meant I could make her ‘act sub’ so in effect making it a consensual story (but not really).

The dynamics of the various scenes with her and the three mmf scenes made it hot. Some of that was the ‘waiting in turn’ and the impatience (and more aggression) from one of the men. Having her give oral to the obese guy was another humiliation dimension. It was a good 40 minute or so delay so plenty of time to imagine the scene with her in the carriage. With 5 minutes to go before we arrived at the station it was time enough for her to give us a last blow job (bar Mr obese) before the train arrived at the station.

Brutal One