BDSM in the movies

[evesdream]

***warning***spoilers in this thread***


....particularly in the movie Secretary, with Maggie Gyllanhall and James Spader...particularly the ending. Has anybody else seen this? (Go go go go see it!) It's the best I've seen a wide release movie do with a BDSM relationship. It's the only movie I've seen where BDSM isn't just sarcastically implied or part of some sociopath's life of sin.

I _even got the feeling_ that the writer or director was able to become empathetically involved with the needs of the two main characters, which I've likewise, never seen on screen.

But what the heck was up with the Gap Family ending?

2nd question: are there any straight up, no pussyfooting, no behind doors or comic relief BDSM playtime, movies or books in fiction featuring this type of relationship?

 

[evesdream]

I think what I'm really wondering is whether anybody in the present day is writing about the inner lives of 'subs, doms, switches'... somewhere other than the Internet and in some format other than documentaries?

 

[Guest]

I think what I'm really wondering is whether anybody in the present day is writing about the inner lives of 'subs, doms, switches'... somewhere other than the Internet and in some format other than documentaries?

Try Ann Rice for softcore. For hardcore, Pat Califia

Go here:

Amazon.com

 

[NemoAlia]

It's a good thing I don't know what a "Gap Family" ending is: I would have hated to have it ruined for me! It's gonna be a while before that movie makes it out to my neck of the woods.

Wish I could be more helpful, though...

 

[RisiaSkye]

But what the heck was up with the Gap Family ending?

I think they were trying to show that the couple has a "normal" life. Partcularly because of her being in an asylum at the beginning, it would be easy to read the BDSM relationship as just another "self-harming" behavior, a somewhat less-dangerous but still "wrong" and "deviant" practice than the cutting. Since it doesn't seem the filmmakers were out to portray it that way, I think the Gap Family ending is meant to show them as Joe Average and Susie Homemaker.

JMO, of course. Great flick, though.

 

[evesdream]

ChilledVodka, I like those suggestions. Pat Califia is the bomb.

I started reading some of the other stories written by the woman who wrote the short story that Secretary is based on. Some of her characters are kinky and seem to be what another person on this board coined as psychosexual. But it'll take more reading to find out whether they are all just neurotic.

NemoAlia, uhoh. sowwy.

RisiaSkye, that's a good point. I'm still having trouble placing exactly what felt so wrong about the end. Maybe it's just not the "happy ending" I would like for myself. It was difficult not to see it as a betrayal of the characters or a cop out, but the whole thing also jives with the wacky humour of the script.

 

[evesdream]

the gays

Has anyone else noticed how encompassing gay writing and screenplay has become in the past few years? I wonder if there was a turning point when gay writers started writing fiction about themselves as detectives, teachers, family members, men and women about the town in stories where sex was not the whole point of the story, yet sexuality was not submerged, dissembled, and hidden, so that the thing that would have defined them as unique or deviant was instead incorporated into the existences that made them complex and human.

holy run-on sentence.

anyhow, when i see stories like this about we of the freaky sexuality, i just can't get enough.

 

[Pelagie]

I liked the ending. I think it showed that people can have a BDSM type of relationship and seem like any other vanilla type couple on the outside. I don't think it was a cop-out at all. Great movie, definitely buying it on video when it somes out.

 

[Lancecastor]

McClintlock!

 

[evesdream]

difficult

 

[UCE]

Evesdream,

In terms of movies, see the old classic _ClosetLand_ if you haven't yet. It deals indirectly with power in relationships and is very worth watching--also pretty hot.

The ten-video Story of O movie is worth a watch, if you can get hold of a copy somewhere, although it doesn't provide you with much insight into submissive motivations: as with the book, we're supposed to believe that O went through all that pain and humiliation not becuase she liked any of it, oh no, she did it because she loved her boyfriend and it was what he wanted. But the movie and the book are very enjoyable to expereince, and the movie is filmed beautifully with lovely scenes in it, and if you can ignore that one false note and not expect too much of a plot or an ending that "winds things up," you might like it.

Have you watched the classic film, The King and I, the one with Yul Brenner? There's some delightful power play that goes on in it.

There are lots of mainstream fiction books that deal with S&M as one of their themes in a serious manner, although most wind up dissing or misunderstanding the subject in my opinion.

One example of a totally confused story with certain redeeming values is _Topping from Below_, a thriller novel that came out about five years ago--maybe a little longer. What's redeeming about it? The stuff about how predators prey on the insecure, even select for them is right on. Some of the main characters' sexually submissive feelings and responses to the man who killed her sister (yes, wince, that is the main plot--she's "hunting" him) are also right on. Other stuff in it is bs, IMO, and I remember some of her conclusions about what bdsm really is pissing me off, but unless I read the book again, I'm afraid I won't remember what they are.

I may have mentioned here or maybe it was somewhere else that the Anita Black Vampire Executioner horror series is very enjoyable to read for its powerplay. Although the female heroine character is definitely NOT submissive, the romantic male figures in her life (some dead, some alive, some changlings) are always, always trying to top her and that makes for fun reading.

Finally, if you haven't read it yet, buy or borrow, and read that beautifully written classic by Jerzy Kosinski called _Passion Play_. In its most arresting sub-plot, a black woman who is passing for white is forced to submit to a white male horse trainer who sees through her charade and knows what she needs erotically. Like most classics, the writing will make you smile with delight at the craft involved, even if you don't agree with the writer's conclusions.

 

[tr65]

Movies

You can get graphic short foreign movies on Fetish Auctioneer. I have bought a couple and although they are in German or Swiss they are very graphic in the power play and erotic torture. Whips, nipple chains and clamps, wax, needles, stocks, etc.

They also are inexpensive, about $15.00 each.

 

[evesdream]

i've seen none of those- thankyou unda

 

[Little Girl]

One of my all time favorite movies

McClintlock!

I finaly got Wanderer to sit down and watch it with me one night and told him that I always believed that was one of the first movies that had a small BDSM theme going .....

 

[Michael42]

Frank and I

If you can find it in the original cut. (The cinemax edits sucked )

 

[TheWanderer]

Re: One of my all time favorite movies

I finaly got Wanderer to sit down and watch it with me one night and told him that I always believed that was one of the first movies that had a small BDSM theme going .....

Too true, and while normally I'm not much for older movies, LG's love of John Wayne got me to watch it anyway. Good thing, too, it's a lot of fun in any context.

But the idea of spanking your hellcat wife to keep her in line suited me just fine...

 

[evesdream]

mcclintock!

omg when lance posted that i had no idea he was talking about a john wayne movie (john wayne a spanker..who woulda...) i thought that he was being "difficult"at me because of what my book search pulled up..

So there, now you all know i'm an idiot.

 

[evesdream]

philip roth..mwrrarr

but still on my quest trying to find a certain type of fiction, i should mention the inimitable philip roth.

He writes without apology about the life and times of unabashed, perverse, anti-heroic men. He gets right in there with all the snails and puppy dog tails and elevates it with.um..insight, self-mockery, humour(laugh out loud reading on the subway humour), and subtlety. He's won prizes and whatnot but it's the scandalous sex and multisyllabic bittersweetness that I keep coming back for. I probably love him for all the wrong reasons.

eve

 

[Richard49]

Isn't there a scene in the Quit Man where John Wayne uses a switch on the lead actress?

 

[Little Girl]

Isn't there a scene in the Quit Man where John Wayne uses a switch on the lead actress?

Yes Richard I believe there is, and Wanderer wonders why I am such a John Wayne fan

 

[rosco rathbone]

Why won't the perverted youth get hip to Philip Roth??

Movie: My Fair Lady

That book "Topping From Below" or whatever was my pre-internet wake-up call that there was a major current culture of pervy peeple like me.

I saw this girl read and she is really sexy in person as well as on the page:

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...r=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-4617211-8896054?v=glance

 

[Moyds_jewel]

Secretary w/ James Spader

Evesdream-
Fresh air on NPR did an interview with the movie's director that you might find interesting. The interview aired on 10/31/02. The director views this movie as a tender love story.
go to:
freshair.npr.org
to hear it...


________
It is my joy and honor to be His

 

[TheWanderer]

MENTAL NOTE

Yes Richard I believe there is, and Wanderer wonders why I am such a John Wayne fan

"Rent more John Wayne movies"

 

[asyouwish2]

I would think a D/s relationship might be difficult to capture on video. These type of relationships take time to develop the trust that's necessary. Plus, I imagine myself being drawn and captivated by my Mistress. My submissions would be due to her power and beauty, not becasue I have an inherent need to receive pain or punishment. That might also not be easy to capture on film.


Exit to Eden was the only mainstream movie that dealt with the topic that I've seen. Even in that movie, if my memory is correct, the main character Dana Delaney was a dominant to protect her from getting emotionally involved or hurt. ie there was something wrong with her. With the level of trust involved, I would think she would get more intimate with someone she was dominating, not the opposite as the movie suggests. Plus Hollywood isn't interested in showing this as something people should do or try. Often in movies, the couple that does anything kinky has it backfire.

I've only rented a few adult D/s videos and I've been disappointed with them as well. Most of the titles I've seen advertised only deal with the punishment/pain aspect. The Mistress's pleasure isn't of importance. The movies seem to be marketed to male subs who like pain/punishment. I'm more interested in a sensual and erotic side of dominance. The mind is a very important part of sex and a film that incorporated the mental asspect of D/s would be intersting. If anyone knows of an adult female domination video that they would recommmend, I'd appreciate it.

 

[evesdream]

Re: Secretary w/ James Spader

moyds jewel, thank you for that link. The sound thing on this PC isn't working at the moment, but i'm looking forward to following that.

asyouwish2, i hear you on the difficulty of capturing particular subtleties on film. It's not impossible for skilled film people & storytellers to leave the impression of the depth and romance you're talking about though.

Femme domme isn't really on my radar but if I come across something I'll post it here.