BDSM in the Modern, Enlightened World.

[Metrodance]

Is BDSM what it used to be?

It’s become rather mainstream now, hasn’t it? Rather predictable – games, manoeuvrers and slow dancing to a strict rulebook – like 18th Century manners guides - the courage has gone.

And the edge has vanished.

 

[catalina_francisco]

Is BDSM what it used to be?

It’s become rather mainstream now, hasn’t it? Rather predictable – games, manoeuvrers and slow dancing to a strict rulebook – like 18th Century manners guides - the courage has gone.

And the edge has vanished.

LOL, guess it depends how you play your games and how you dance. Basically if you are the type of person who settles into mediocrity with ease, than yes, you will stagnate and find life becomes less challenging, more predictable. Unfortunately that is what many mainstream like and do, though not all...some actually step outside the box once in awhile, others live outside the box daily.

Catalina

 

[Metrodance]

You do realise that BDSM is not better than vanilla, caramel or spotted chocolate – it’s just an alternative? Like so many other lifestyles?

It’s precocious to consider your lifestyle is the best and boring when one becomes dogmatic.

I smell dogma here.

 

[catalina_francisco]

You do realise that BDSM is not better than vanilla, caramel or spotted chocolate – it’s just an alternative? Like so many other lifestyles?

It’s precocious to consider your lifestyle is the best and boring when one becomes dogmatic.

I smell dogma here.

LOL, well having lived both lifestyles quite happily (which sort of gives me some basis for comparison as well) I can only say this is the best for ME....not for you perhaps, but that is why choice is such a welcome thing in this world. BTW, did I say it was better? Tend to think perhaps that is in your own head sugar. As for dogma, well we all have to live with the mainstream version of that daily, especially those living in Bushdom. Hmmm, just seems though with the recent influx of some GBers coming over here to play, perhaps some are feeling they might be missing out on something, or are you just fresh out of games to play? Either way you're all welcome to join in as long as you save your sermons, judgements, trolling and lectures for your own corner of the universe. Damn, maybe we are seeing the beginning of a mass conversion taking place, and we weren't even trying....honest we weren't!!

Catalina

 

[wolf2002]

I have always had difficulty with the word 'lifestyle' as a summary for my several and varied kinks... it reeks of group behaviour, of common standards, of do's and don;ts etc.... As if there are skaters, and rockers, and then kinksters...

The only common standards in my view are SSC, and those apply for every facet of social behaviour...

To me, BDSM is more like a gigant glossary to get inspiration from...

 

[catalina_francisco]

I have always had difficulty with the word 'lifestyle' as a summary for my several and varied kinks... it reeks of group behaviour, of common standards, of do's and don;ts etc.... As if there are skaters, and rockers, and then kinksters...

The only common standards in my view are SSC, and those apply for every facet of social behaviour...

To me, BDSM is more like a gigant glossary to get inspiration from...

True somewhat, though I tend to use lifestyle as a word in a sense of a generalisation of an area from which there are several variations for those involved.

Catalina

 

[wolf2002]

True somewhat, though I tend to use lifestyle as a word in a sense of a generalisation of an area from which there are several variations for those involved.

Catalina

That is good, I like variation

 

[Metrodance]

Hmmm, just seems though with the recent influx of some GBers coming over here to play, perhaps some are feeling they might be missing out on something, or are you just fresh out of games to play?

No, I’m afraid not.

There is the dogma – you feel you have the message and all others are wrong. That is a tiny bit sad but expected. I was hopeful of serious and committed debate but to debate, one must fully understand the subject and the philosophy.

To describe one as being in one world is also limiting – I play in the universe.

A note. I think you should be aware that I understand more about your world that you possibly expect.

 

[wolf2002]

I think you should be aware that I understand more about your world that you possibly expect.

Oh yeah? What's your kink?

 

[Netzach]

Is BDSM what it used to be?

It’s become rather mainstream now, hasn’t it? Rather predictable – games, manoeuvrers and slow dancing to a strict rulebook – like 18th Century manners guides - the courage has gone.

And the edge has vanished.

So said Laura Antoniou. Heard it.

Unless you're a voyeur or really have a boring sex life, I'd argue that doing is almost always less rote and predictable than watching what others do and evaluating, so from the outside of course it looks silly. (I don't mean this in a community-bandying "outside" BDSM vanilla sense I mean simply being a non-participant and judging someone else's scene or thing.)

As for the courage being gone from SM, are you in the closet about your SM activities or completely out? Since it's so suburban these days to be perverted.

 

[Marquis]

A note. I think you should be aware that I understand more about your world that you possibly expect.

You wouldn't have to know much for that to be true. The very question this thread is asking still keeps the ceiling pretty low however.

 

[Metrodance]

As for the courage being gone from SM, are you in the closet about your SM activities or completely out? Since it's so suburban these days to be perverted.

That was, in a way, my point. It is so mainstream now, so suburban as you pointed out.
As to whether I’m in a closet (claustrophobic kink?) or not, is my concern. I think this would be one of the last places on earth I would post that information.

The very question this thread is asking still keeps the ceiling pretty low however.

I thought you could do better than that. If you can’t, you have my sympathy.

The question was posed to prompt a meaningful and, perhaps, an introspective debate.

 

[rosco rathbone]

And the edge has vanished.

I can definitely say that I no longer have the outlaw thrill that I had in the days when I first began consciously working out a place for myself in this cosa nostra . I feel lucky to have been out (to myself anyway) as a perv before the massive wave of internet popularization hit. I really did walk the streets with my sweetie feeling like we were the only two people in the world who understood this dangerous, forbidden and supremely non-PC thing. However, most of that is probably just the mellowing (or some would say the embittering) influence of age and jadedness. No doubt the young guns have their own outlaw thrills.

 

[BBWetKitty]

Oh yeah? What's your kink?

Oohhh! Ooohh! I know this one.


she dunks her toast in tea.

 

[Quint]

Is BDSM what it used to be?

It’s become rather mainstream now, hasn’t it? Rather predictable – games, manoeuvrers and slow dancing to a strict rulebook – like 18th Century manners guides - the courage has gone.

And the edge has vanished.

What it used to be when? What basis of comparison are we working with?

I treat my sex like poetry; sometimes I find it comforting to have the structure of a sonnet, and sometimes I prefer the liberation of free verse. To the writer who doesn't choose to be limited, sex is exactly what one makes of it. That holds true regardless of kink. I'm reminded of a comment someone (Killy?) made on the BDSM jokes page: if you take a blonde joke and add the word "BDSM," it's still a blonde joke. Sex, whether vanilla or kinked, is just as mainstream, predictable, and cowardly--or isn't.

 

[Marquis]

What it used to be when? What basis of comparison are we working with?

I treat my sex like poetry; sometimes I find it comforting to have the structure of a sonnet, and sometimes I prefer the liberation of free verse. To the writer who doesn't choose to be limited, sex is exactly what one makes of it. That holds true regardless of kink. I'm reminded of a comment someone (Killy?) made on the BDSM jokes page: if you take a blonde joke and add the word "BDSM," it's still a blonde joke. Sex, whether vanilla or kinked, is just as mainstream, predictable, and cowardly--or isn't.

Gold.

 

[Metrodance]

I can definitely say that I no longer have the outlaw thrill that I had in the days when I first began consciously working out a place for myself in this cosa nostra . I feel lucky to have been out (to myself anyway) as a perv before the massive wave of internet popularization hit. I really did walk the streets with my sweetie feeling like we were the only two people in the world who understood this dangerous, forbidden and supremely non-PC thing. However, most of that is probably just the mellowing (or some would say the embittering) influence of age and jadedness. No doubt the young guns have their own outlaw thrills.

Excellent point. When it’s groundbreaking – there is that illicit thrill – but when it’s common place and almost mundane that camaraderie, that gathering of edgy souls, vanishes?

 

[Metrodance]

Oohhh! Ooohh! I know this one.


she dunks her toast in tea.

That’s the one I do reveal, Kitty. *wink*

 

[TaintedB]

About eighteen years ago when the first pre-Internet-poularlization online communities (i.e. in AOL, Delphi, the Well, and CIS--there were a few others, too that didn't survive) discovered BDSM in their various message boards and forums, I thought this very thing. BDSM seemed to change when you took it off the smaller more cozy bbs's, even the national mirror nets like fido, and transported it to a large system with a much larger population.

Oh, but I was so much younger then....

 

[Singularity]

So why is the "edge" so important?

Is BDSM what it used to be?

It’s become rather mainstream now, hasn’t it? Rather predictable – games, manoeuvrers and slow dancing to a strict rulebook – like 18th Century manners guides - the courage has gone.

And the edge has vanished.

You've asked the wrong question, I think. What does "courage" and "being on the edge" have to do with whether something is right for a person or not? If BDSM in general, or a specific kink in particular is what brings your soul to life, what does it matter whether it is something that is practiced by only a few, or millions?

The goal is to find a means and a manner to express oneself and to find others who complement and understand and share the same ideals and goals. So how does the basics of BDSM becoming more mainstream, or even just some aspects of "pretending it" by a wider audience hurt your ability to practice what you wish to?

I would think that the mainstreaming of BDSM is a help and not a hindrance. So what if the vast majority only understand the bare outline of it and dance around the periphery of it? That is true of any endeavor or area of study. 90% of the people who claim to understand any field of study don't know beans about any of the details.

Even, by analogy, for something as mundane and commonplace as driving cars. A lot of people do it, and it is sure a lot more mainstream than it was 50 years ago, but there are a lot more commuters than there are race car drivers. And there always will be. I don't think a Le Mans or Indy 500 driver frets about how many people buy fast cars for driving in suburban traffic, bumber-to-bumper.

And if your goal is to be "on the edge" and out of the mainstream and unconventional, there are a world of options for you to explore.

Complaining about something becoming more mainstream, that also expands the possibilities for practicing what you truly love, while saying that it has to be on the edge to be of any value, seems to be an inherent contradiction.

So which is more important? Being on the edge and being "out there" or being in a larger community of more tolerant, and like-minded individuals who share at least a sliver of understanding or more, of what you cherish?

 

[duckiesmut]

Is BDSM what it used to be?

It’s become rather mainstream now, hasn’t it? Rather predictable – games, manoeuvrers and slow dancing to a strict rulebook – like 18th Century manners guides - the courage has gone.

And the edge has vanished.

You can choose to see it as a ‘strict rulebook’, with all its inclusions and caveats, or you can see it as something else entirely. It doesn’t have to be an eight-course meal at grandmother’s. It can be the Chinese buffet down the street. Pick and choose the aspects you like, and leave the greasy noodles in the tray, as long as you don't expect Italian and realize you have to pay the bill.

(Yes, that is one bizarre analogy.)

As far as ‘the courage has gone’, I disagree. Such a broad-based statement to describe what is still, in essence, a subculture, would take some justification to back it up.

Whose edge? Mine? Yours? For someone who speaks of dogma with contempt, your words seem a bit hypocritical.

You do realise that BDSM is not better than vanilla, caramel or spotted chocolate – it’s just an alternative? Like so many other lifestyles?

It’s precocious to consider your lifestyle is the best and boring when one becomes dogmatic.

I smell dogma here.

I’d suggest you consult the dictionary for the definition of ‘precocious’ and its usage here.

A note. I think you should be aware that I understand more about your world that you possibly expect.

For someone who is hoping to spark a healthy debate, this seems quite inflammatory instead of encouraging.

***

Singularity, thank you for your post.

 

[AAkasha]

Excellent point. When it’s groundbreaking – there is that illicit thrill – but when it’s common place and almost mundane that camaraderie, that gathering of edgy souls, vanishes?

What other people think about my kink has no impact on my enjoying it. Isn't this like the goth kids saying it's no more fun to walk around in the mall in their edgy clothes because Hot Topic is so mainstream? Now, the poor goths don't shock anyone anymore. They are no longer "the edge".

The "edge" of my kink comes from me exploring my dark and personal desires and limits as well as my partner's. If we were on a deserted island it'd still be the same passionate, "edgy" fun, except we'd have to be more innovative about the toys.

Akasha

 

[Xelebes]

Sans the internet and the community, I'd still be fantasising about watching women pee. But as far as mainstream goes - fuck the mainstream and just go with your flow oblivious to the fact whether or not you are going with the mainstream. If you're trying to go the wau away from from mainstream you're trying too hard.

 

[Little Bird]

I have always had difficulty with the word 'lifestyle' as a summary for my several and varied kinks... it reeks of group behaviour, of common standards, of do's and don;ts etc.... As if there are skaters, and rockers, and then kinksters...

The only common standards in my view are SSC, and those apply for every facet of social behaviour...

To me, BDSM is more like a gigant glossary to get inspiration from...

It's the same with gothic, a not that different lifestyle. In fact I knew some goths who tried to find connections of Gothic and BDSM and though it is not the same and does not neccessarily have the same roots is simmilar in many aspects. Most people think you're crazy but in fact it's seeing things evreyone got right before them but don't want to see. It slides into mainstream now, too. If you're not in, you think there's only one lifestyle, if you forcefully try to get in, you get only into the mainstream. I tried to find the real core of gothic and everything's left were the dark clothes.
The ones that are yelling the loudest that Gothic changes into mainstream are those that are already part of it. Lifesyle is not about being special, but about feeling comfortable. And yes, if there is a mainstream it will vanish in some years or months and everything that's left are those that really understand what's this all aabout. The only difference could be that people stop calling you "sick bastards", the only ones that are losing something are those, that adopted the lifestyle to get the atention...

 

[Netzach]

That was, in a way, my point. It is so mainstream now, so suburban as you pointed out.
As to whether I’m in a closet (claustrophobic kink?) or not, is my concern. I think this would be one of the last places on earth I would post that information.

Well that's my point. If it's so very suburban surely we can all be open about it and let the world know, since it's so mainstream.