BDSM Gone Wrong....Way Wrong

[bridgeburner]

Couple Makes Runaway Into Sex Slave

I can imagine any number of things that might've happened but my fear is that this was BDSM gone wrong.

The girl was introduced to this couple via a friend. The fact that she was kept in a dog kennel makes me think these are pyschos with BDSM leanings who were big fans of the couple who put the Girl in a Box back in the 80's since they later incarcerated her in a hollowed out bed frame.

Naively, I suppose, I was surprised at the couple's youth and I wonder how it all happened. I mean, did the victim initially think it would be a consentual relationship in which she was the slave of this couple or was she just some vanilla kid who fell prey to a couple of nutbags? Since the vicitm is underage I don't suppose much more detail will come out, but I'm curious all the same.

And, of course, however sick and wrong it may be, if this were a fictional tale I'd be eagerly reading it in bed.

-B

 

[serijules]

I don't really see any BDSM in that. I see a crime.

 

[INSIDEYOURMIND]

I don't see any BDSM leanings in this report.

I do see some sick idiots, that have scarred this young girl for life. I am not sure what there punishment will eventually be, but I am sure it is not a half of what she went through.

Just because a cage was mentioned, it does not automatically presume BDSM. There was a recent report of a foster family that kept their children in cages also made of bedframes, there was nothing BDSM related, just more sick people.

 

[RJMasters]

Couple Makes Runaway Into Sex Slave

I can imagine any number of things that might've happened but my fear is that this was BDSM gone wrong.

The girl was introduced to this couple via a friend. The fact that she was kept in a dog kennel makes me think these are pyschos with BDSM leanings who were big fans of the couple who put the Girl in a Box back in the 80's since they later incarcerated her in a hollowed out bed frame.

Naively, I suppose, I was surprised at the couple's youth and I wonder how it all happened. I mean, did the victim initially think it would be a consentual relationship in which she was the slave of this couple or was she just some vanilla kid who fell prey to a couple of nutbags? Since the vicitm is underage I don't suppose much more detail will come out, but I'm curious all the same.

And, of course, however sick and wrong it may be, if this were a fictional tale I'd be eagerly reading it in bed.

-B

About three weeks ago I was reading a website where the person shared he wanted to have his first sexual experience in a graveyard on a grave, then aftwards cut both of themselves and let their blood pool and mark the spot forever.

Maybe not the most far out fantasy, until you realize this was from a 14 yr old site who lives about 5 blocks from my house and goes to my youngest daughter's school. This was just 1 in about 35 other sites of 12-16 yr olds I was searching through because two 13 year old girls disappeared from school, as they ran away to meet someone who they knew or met on the Internet.

Because my daughter knew one of the girls, that girl's mother showed up on our doorstep in tears asking if my daughter had seen her or knew where she might be. This poor woman could barely speak english, she was spanish and didn't know anything about computers. I had her come in and sit down and I asked questions, which is how I found out that she heard her daughter talk about some guy her and the other girl met online.

I rolled up my sleeves and with the help of my daughter found their personal webpages, and began my decent tracing down all of their personal blogs cross referencing them and finding who lived locally in the area. All I can say is some of the shit I saw on these 12-16 yr old's websites make much of Lit look tame.

I paid a few of the guys a visit who lived here in town. Explained to them how I found them and why I was there. One of the guy's mother was still beating the shit out of him when I left. (LOL that was pretty funny).

Amazingly enough the girls were found around 3:00 am and returned home safely.

When you mentioned you were surprised by the young ages, it made me want to share what I had learned myself.

I am glad these people were caught, I hope they end up as cum sluts in prison, and maybe if we get lucky they will piss off the right person in jail and that person will save the taxpayers alot of money.

You could be very well right in that it was BDSM gone wrong however I have known a few people who went through similar things like in that story when they were young and they told me it was satanic cult. Maybe a combination of both or nether, I am just glad they were caught, and hope that girl will be able to work through what she had to endure.

 

[bridgeburner]

Clearly this wasn't SSC, but not remotely connected to BDSM?

Since when is sexual enslavement and torture not about dominance and sadism? Yes, this was a crime. No, it shouldn't ever happen. Of course this girl has been horribly and perhaps irrevocably injured. Damn straight this couple will probably never receive a fitting punishment -- particularly the woman --- but to claim this has no BDSM implications seems a bit disengenous to me.

I'm not sure there's any danger in denying the BDSM implications of certain crimes, but it seems dishonest to me.

People are made uncomfortable by the idea that their kinks may be shared by conscienceless others, so I can understand the impulse to distance what WE do from what sicko criminals do, but I think the root impulses come from the same place.

-B

 

[bridgeburner]

RJ,

Thanks for the insight. I wasn't surprised by the sexuality of people that age, simply by the fact that they'd commit such a crime. Kidnapping, enslavement and child prostitution just seems so much farther out there than knocking over a liquor store or something.

I'm glad your neighbors' daughters got home safely and good on you for your heads up to the parents of the other kids.

-B

 

[Marquis]

Why must I be aroused by the misfortunes of others?

 

[rosco rathbone]

Why must I be aroused by the misfortunes of others?

There's something spiteful at the root of your sexuality.

Selfish sexual rage.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Clearly this wasn't SSC, but not remotely connected to BDSM?

Not even close.

These were greedy fuckers that has no compassion for another human and they preyed upon the vulnerability of her age and that she was a runaway. I bet they thought that since she was a runaway they could exploit it as being untraceable.

I strongly believe that some of these fucks that commit crimes such as this should be dealt with the way the Chinese do.

A bullet to the brain.

Rid ourselves of human debris, it is stinking up the place.

 

[Marquis]

Clearly this wasn't SSC, but not remotely connected to BDSM?

Since when is sexual enslavement and torture not about dominance and sadism? Yes, this was a crime. No, it shouldn't ever happen. Of course this girl has been horribly and perhaps irrevocably injured. Damn straight this couple will probably never receive a fitting punishment -- particularly the woman --- but to claim this has no BDSM implications seems a bit disengenous to me.

I'm not sure there's any danger in denying the BDSM implications of certain crimes, but it seems dishonest to me.

People are made uncomfortable by the idea that their kinks may be shared by conscienceless others, so I can understand the impulse to distance what WE do from what sicko criminals do, but I think the root impulses come from the same place.

-B

I'm going to save this post and use it everytime this argument comes up.


What cracks me up is that you post something showing the seedier side of BDSM and everyone loves to say it isn't BDSM, you post something talking about the standards of SSC and everyone tells you it should be totally subjective and it's wrong to draw lines.

 

[Chicklet]

Why must I be aroused by the misfortunes of others?

[babble]

you know, i read the true crime novel "girl in a box" about the couple in California mentioned above who kept a girl in a coffin-like box for upwards of 8 years, and i had no problem differentiating between the crime mentioned in the novels and the fantasy in my bdsm erotica, but my ex boyfriend accused me of being turned on by the book!

i think it gives the bdsm community a blow when crimes like this happen, because some closed minded vanilla people think that we're all criminals for liking the kind of play we do. that makes me sad. the crime does, a little, too...make me sad i mean.

sorry, i babble...

[/babble]

 

[HawkEye38]

The difference is that no one here would make someone do those things if they truly didn't want to. End of story...

 

[LadyAria]

Okay, what they did to that little girl is WRONG!

However, everyone saying it has to be consensual to be BDSM is wrong too. I don't like or approve of the sexual sadist predators, but they do subscribe to some of the same fetishes. They just take it to a whole different level, then most practioners.

Marquis de Sade was not consensual or safe and he is definitely the father of sadism.

I do believe in SCC. It is a part of the general western lifestyle. However, some of the BDSM in the world is not SCC and it is still BDSM.

 

[Vixandra]

While many similarities in the urges/drives between an SSC Dom/me and these sick fucks could be shown, I think its two different birds, to use such a referance. Difference between a Falcon and a Buzzard- both birds but both totally different creatures.

I don't think they kept her locked up because it aroused them, a modivation I see behind many in the BDSM community who do so. They locked her up because it was a conveniant way from keeping her from running away or contacting her family.

These are some sick people. I bet the man will get quite a lovely return on all this in prision and I'd be surprised if the woman didn't get one as well. Amazing things one can do with a hairbrush.

Don't child molesters get it worse in prison? I thought I'd read that some where.
http://www.newhousenews.com/archive/Rios090203.html
After some googling I pulled that up.

I don't think these people's prison sentance will be a walk in the park. Once can hope not.

And that poor girl- may she find peace in her life.

 

[HawkEye38]

However, some of the BDSM in the world is not SCC and it is still BDSM.

Bugger, I always get a knot in my stomach when it's talked about like that. Firstly because it took me a long time to convince myself that even though I liked BDSM I wasn't going to become a rapist or something. Secondly, it's the kind of connections Bushies make when they're trying to shut down porn sites, BDSM in particular.

But that's just me

 

[jadefirefly]

..... I live JUST west of Phoenix.


*twitch*

I don't want to live here anymore...

 

[Evil_Geoff]

Equating what that couple did to that girl with BDSM is like equating rape with making love.

*loud raucous buzzer noise AAAAAAACK!* Wrong answer.

I'm sorry, but there IS a line in the sand between BDSM and abuse, just as there is a line in the sand between having sex and rape. Just as there is a difference between murder and self-defense. That couple crossed that line. Way, way, WAY over the line. There are things that are right, and things that are wrong and if that couple did what they are accused of, they are absolutely, clearly, and utterly wrong.

Is that judgemental? Probably. But I'll stand by it. What is done with consent, within the context of an _adult_ relationship is one thing. Doing those same things to a _child_, who cannot give consent, is something else entirely.

 

[bullaford]

Equating what that couple did to that girl with BDSM is like equating rape with making love.

*loud raucous buzzer noise AAAAAAACK!* Wrong answer.

I'm sorry, but there IS a line in the sand between BDSM and abuse, just as there is a line in the sand between having sex and rape. Just as there is a difference between murder and self-defense. That couple crossed that line. Way, way, WAY over the line. There are things that are right, and things that are wrong and if that couple did what they are accused of, they are absolutely, clearly, and utterly wrong.

Is that judgemental? Probably. But I'll stand by it. What is done with consent, within the context of an _adult_ relationship is one thing. Doing those same things to a _child_, who cannot give consent, is something else entirely.

What He said.

 

[Xelebes]

Equating what that couple did to that girl with BDSM is like equating rape with making love.

*loud raucous buzzer noise AAAAAAACK!* Wrong answer.

I'm sorry, but there IS a line in the sand between BDSM and abuse, just as there is a line in the sand between having sex and rape. Just as there is a difference between murder and self-defense. That couple crossed that line. Way, way, WAY over the line. There are things that are right, and things that are wrong and if that couple did what they are accused of, they are absolutely, clearly, and utterly wrong.

Is that judgemental? Probably. But I'll stand by it. What is done with consent, within the context of an _adult_ relationship is one thing. Doing those same things to a _child_, who cannot give consent, is something else entirely.

It's still BDSM. BDSM actually has nothing about consent - that is for the school of SSC and RACK which is about consent. BDSM is a broad term that does reach into the illegal side of the world. BDSM is about Bondage, discipline (can include threatening), dominance/submission (in this case, it'd be an extrema), sadomasochism (uh... do I need to indulge?)

 

[HawkEye38]

Maybe that's true, but we're still allowed to be offended at automatically being steriotyped with all aspects of BDSM, including the illegal side.

 

[INSIDEYOURMIND]

It's still BDSM. BDSM actually has nothing about consent - that is for the school of SSC and RACK which is about consent. BDSM is a broad term that does reach into the illegal side of the world. BDSM is about Bondage, discipline (can include threatening), dominance/submission (in this case, it'd be an extrema), sadomasochism (uh... do I need to indulge?)

BDSM is experiences between people of similar interests. If a person goes out, grabs a woman, ties her up, and tortues her, all against her will, if this woman had no interest in, or knowledge of BDSM, that isn't BDSM, that's unconsentual sex, or rape.

Police use handcuffs, is that a BDSM restraint? Cowboys use rope, I am sure they would be surprised to learn that they are practicing bondage.

You can attach a label that does not apply to many things, it doesn't belong, but you can call it what you want.

Calling what these idiots did BDSM, is akin to calling Britney Spears Mother of the Year!

 

[Marquis]

Equating what that couple did to that girl with BDSM is like equating rape with making love.

False*

I'm sorry, but there IS a line in the sand between BDSM and abuse, just as there is a line in the sand between having sex and rape.

False**

Calling what these idiots did BDSM, is akin to calling Britney Spears Mother of the Year!

uhhhhh......





* "Making love" implies bilateral affection, something rape usually lacks.

** Rape is sex. Not everyone who has sex is a rapist, but every rapist has sex.

 

[bridgeburner]

I seem to have set off the Twitchy Knees Club.

Before somebody chokes on his outrage let me point out that nowhere and at no time have I (or anyone else here) advocated the actions of this criminal couple or expressed the view that what was done to that girl was anything other than abominable.

But I'd like to reiterate what Xelebes said:

BDSM is not about consent.

BDSM is the sexualizing of bondage, dominance, discipline, submission, service, sadism and masochism. It isn't BDSM when the cops handcuff you --- unless they're also planning to fuck you, but it's certainly BDSM when your lover plays Highway Patrol Officer and subjects you to a strip search.

Responsible practitioners of BDSM require consent just as responsible hunters don't stalk schoolchildren. Not everyone is a responsible person. We all know that. We've all heard of someone who we think practices "bad" BDSM.

Are we children that we can't differentiate between individuals within a vast group? Islam isn't about terrorism, but clearly Osama Bin Laden is a terrorist as well as a Muslim. Christianity isn't about hatred and terrorism but clearly the folks who bomb abortion clinics are Christians. Football isn't about theft and assault but clearly......you get my meaning.

I understand the urge for simplicity and drawing lines in black and white, but it isn't practical nor is it ultimately useful in the real world. There are nuances and gradiations and it's naive at best to pretend there aren't.

In the long run it may be a disservice to the consentual kink community to so vehemently deny the BDSM elements of these crimes. A vanilla person who has no understanding of the underlying urges can only see that folks are getting tied up and caged and whipped and fucked. This vanilla person finds it all unpleasant and can't imagine wanting to be on either side of the whip hand. Already the urges are seen as a terrible aberration from the norm. It's no leap at all to lump all practitioners into the "sick and wrong" crowd regardless of consent.

That's why the focus must be on consent.

It's all BDSM, but consent is king. Whipping with consent is fine. Whipping without consent is not. Whipping isn't the point, consent is the point. Sure, I keep my slave in a cage and lend out her body to others, but I've got her consent to do that so it's fine. That couple kept a child in a cage as a slave and let others rape her and nothing about that is okay. The only difference is consent and that's where the focus should be --- not on denying that this couple is anything like us. No shit, they're not like us. They're immoral, wicked people regardless of their kinks.


-B

 

[h_i_s]

It isn't BDSM when the cops handcuff you --- unless they're also planning to fuck you ...

... not the strongest example in making your point. BDSM is still BDSM even without the act of fucking.

The only difference is consent and that's where the focus should be --- not on denying that this couple is anything like us.

... better point made here. i do agree with your position, though, bridgeburner.

Good BDSM (for most) will involve consent.

No consent can equal bad BDSM (and not the good type of bad).

And it's all ... still ... BDSM no matter how it is labeled.

Bondage= we all know what that is
Disapline= we all know what that is
Dominance= we all know what that is
Submission= we all know what that is
Sadism=
Masochism= we all know what that is

(i don't see the word consent up ^^ there ^^.)

Glass of milk vs. chocolate syrup = The base is still milk.
Glass of milk vs. vinegar = The base is still milk.

The acts are still the acts ... how it is all practiced, and whether or not good morals are applied, or evil ... doesn't change the act.





ASIDE FROM THIS THREADS TOPIC:
Interestingly enough though, (and perhaps food for thought here)there are or may be some who enjoy consentual BDSM, or those who fantasize that they may enjoy being the bottom in a nonconsentual BDSM act. i would think that, for those people, if they were to find themselves at the mercy of a top who is forcing them to bottom during a nonconsentual act of BDSM ..... if they were to admit that they enjoy it and in effect give consent .... it would kill their level of enjoyment during that nonconsentual act. Of course, then SSC or RACK would fit the act. Point is ... there are some who either think they may, or actually DO enjoy their BDSM in absense of either SSC /RACK.

 

[RJMasters]

Marquis and IYM, you are both right and both wrong.

-That- ...is the problem. Of course some would even argue with me that, what I see as a problem, isn't.

I have a hard time using the phrase "BDSM community" anymore. G wonder why that is? Perhaps it is because in many ways we killed the idea of community and tolerate nothing less that complete individualism.

Just rambling a bit here(thinking out loud)... Looking back, in many ways I see that the idea of community may have been the deception I bought into. At the end of the day, the only truism one can honestly say is...

That's not "my" BDSM.

Is this a bad thing? In some ways yes and in some ways no. But one thing is true, it means that it is moot to argue the point being discussed here, because no one has the right to tell anyone else what "their" BDSM is.

So why do we even have a forum? Maybe just to have a place to share, convice or persuade others what "my" BDSM is.

Is anyone laughing yet? Because damn this is funny.

Lit is one of the most illogical fucked up places that ever existed and its full of perverts and sick-os along with us normal perverts and sick-os(grinz). Ain't it a bitch to wake up and smell reality...oh wait that's my coffee...brb.

What these two people did to this girl is certainly not part of "My" BDSM. If you feel that what they did is part of your BDSM, then...I won't finish this sentence just to piss you off, or make you laugh.

There are many ways to approach BDSM. For me, "my" BDSM consists of rules and structure which I have erected in order to keep my sanity in the practice of my need to express I am a dominant male with sadist tendencies, kinks, and cool fetishes. These rules and structure I have created exist within the realm of relationship, meaning I believe that in the process of me expressing my dominance, sadism, kinks and fetishes, I do "not" lessing or taking away another person's dignity. That's how I am able to look at myself in the mirror and make some sort of sense of who and what I am.

Because these two people took away this girls's dignity, what they did will never be a part of my BDSM, and I don't care if a cage or handcuffs or ropes were involved or not.