BDSM for Nice Guys

[catalina_francisco]

Francisco, that's funny. I was thinking the same thing, but about Catalina's posts since you returned. Maybe we've all just learned a bit about life recently & also learned how to play nicely with friends.
B]

My my incubus'_sub you are the little pussycat tonight aren't you ? http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/tiere/animal-smiley-031.gif

http://www.click-smilies.de/sammlung0304/aktion/action-smiley-039.gifFrancisco

 

[Esclava]

"Gentleman" Dom/mes...

Sadistic "Gentleman" Dom/mes - yes, they DO exist!

They exist in various stages of training and mastery. They exist online and in real life. They are no less effective in one realm or the other.

IMHO, the qualities of sensitivity and caring are paramount in serving and being served. They are two of the most powerful characteristics in a good Dom/me - as One must possess both qualities in order to control a slave/submissive so the BDSM experience is pleasurable (even extrememly pleasurable) for both partners.

My search continues for one capable of harnessing the intensity within me. I know the power exists - I have found one online who makes me believe I can be dominated. He can humble me with the words, "You please me."; or chastise me by dismissal with the words, "GO NOW, I am not pleased!"

The One I serve in real life will be so confident, so strong in character and completely in control of themselves and their domain; yet gentle, sensitive and caring enough they can bend my will without breaking it - then call my submission and bind me using love as restraints. That is my idea of a "Gentleman" Dom/me.

As far as "Why ... Hurt Someone I Love?", if I find one who loves me enough to hurt me in a way that allows me to serve with everything in me, I will have an answer and shall return to share it.

Esclava

 

[Esclava]

Nice to see you, Francisco!

Esclava

 

[rosco rathbone]

I took the article to be more about men who have issues with their own sadistic urges (no, really! It's OK to whip her! She WANTS you to!) than about the different styles of domination, gentlemen versus villians and so on. The type of gentleman sadist/master you refer to has obviously integrated his dark side and is comfortable with himself and what he does (and therefore ceases to be of much interest to me psychologically).

 

[Kajira Callista]

I took the article to be more about men who have issues with their own sadistic urges (no, really! It's OK to whip her! She WANTS you to!) than about the different styles of domination, gentlemen versus villians and so on. The type of gentleman sadist/master you refer to has obviously integrated his dark side and is comfortable with himself and what he does (and therefore ceases to be of much interest to me psychologically).

why?

 

[rosco rathbone]

why?

Because conflict and internal struggle are what is interesting to me; as I observe people.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Because conflict and internal struggle are what is interesting to me; as I observe people.

learning to be at peace with who you are doesnt come without struggle... daily struggle.

 

[rosco rathbone]

learning to be at peace with who you are doesnt come without struggle... daily struggle.

True enough. Men in the early stages of that process are simply more interesting to me, as a student of life.

 

[Kajira Callista]

True enough. Men in the early stages of that process are simply more interesting to me, as a student of life.

men in the early stages are dangerous in my eyes. Uneducated, not understanding their own desires, and not in control could make someone like me dead.

 

[rosco rathbone]

men in the early stages are dangerous in my eyes. Uneducated, not understanding their own desires, and not in control could make someone like me dead.

We are approaching this from two different angles, of course: you as a submissive and I as an amateur psychologist; although I suppose for your safety that you've become a bit of a psychologist as well. Or is it all instinct?

 

[Kajira Callista]

We are approaching this from two different angles, of course: you as a submissive and I as an amateur psychologist; although I suppose for your safety that you've become a bit of a psychologist as well. Or is it all instinct?

i would say 70% instinct 30% psychology.

 

[rosco rathbone]

i would say 70% instinct 30% psychology.

Have you ever met any "nice guys" who struck you as possibly dangerous?

 

[s'lara]

men in the early stages are dangerous in my eyes. Uneducated, not understanding their own desires, and not in control could make someone like me dead.

True. But it would also be our (submissives) responsibility to know when to remove such a person from our lives. Submission shouldn't eliminate the our ability to be perceptive to danger or behavior which contradicts our need for safety.

i read the article and agree with rr that it doesn't have a thing to do with the various types of Dominants. Gentleman vs. Caveman, et. al. Neither is it a commentary on D/s. Seems to be just a primer for those uncomfortable with BDSM and how they can overcome those feelings to incorporate it these activities into their sexual lives.

lara

 

[Kajira Callista]

Have you ever met any "nice guys" who struck you as possibly dangerous?

many...they know you want to be beaten and unleash the beast but unfortunately dont realistically know when its time to stop. Then they always have the excuse "but you said thats what you liked, i was doing it for you" No control. *gag*

 

[rosco rathbone]

True. But it would also be our (submissives) responsibility to know when to remove such a person from our lives. Submission shouldn't eliminate the our ability to be perceptive to danger or behavior which contradicts our need for safety.

i read the article and agree with rr that it doesn't have a thing to do with the various types of Dominants. Gentleman vs. Caveman, et. al. Neither is it a commentary on D/s. Seems to be just a primer for those uncomfortable with BDSM and how they can overcome those feelings to incorporate it these activities into their sexual lives.

lara

You might find TaintedB's comments on the responsibilities of submissives for their own safety interesting. (In Hecate thread).

 

[rosco rathbone]

many...they know you want to be beaten and unleash the beast but unfortunately dont realistically know when its time to stop. Then they always have the excuse "but you said thats what you liked, i was doing it for you" No control. *gag*

Very interesting. So they try to maintain a "nice" facade even after having lost control and gone way too far?

 

[Kajira Callista]

Very interesting. So they try to maintain a "nice" facade even after having lost control and gone way too far?

yes

 

[s'lara]

You might find TaintedB's comments on the responsibilities of submissives for their own safety interesting. (In Hecate thread).

i saw that and am in disagreement with the comments to a degree. i've yet to find an objective way to respond ... it's coming though.

lara

 

[rosco rathbone]

i saw that and am in disagreement with the comments to a degree. i've yet to find an objective way to respond ... it's coming though.

lara

I'll be keeping an eye out.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by rosco rathbone
Have you ever met any "nice guys" who struck you as possibly dangerous?

What worries me are the ones who don't ring any warning bells at all in anybody, who don't seem the least bit dangerous. These latter are the sucessful predators, and all the intelligence, psychology and instinct in the world won't let you spot them all.

Some of them are just that slick, although they do their best work on the Internet, where even potential non-verbal cues as to their real personalities are masked. One good? thing about Internet predators is that tend to be the emotional kind rather than the physical kind. Communicating over the net usually leaves a big obvious papertrail that no serial killer or psychopath with any intelligence wants anything to do with. No, the Net is far better for commiting those crimes that our society doesn't officially label as criminal.

--Taint

 

[catalina_francisco]

One good? thing about Internet predators is that tend to be the emotional kind rather than the physical kind. Communicating over the net usually leaves a big obvious papertrail that no serial killer or psychopath with any intelligence wants anything to do with. No, the Net is far better for commiting those crimes that our society doesn't officially label as criminal.

--Taint

Hi Taint have to disagree here with you, if you know what you are doing (and if history has taught us anything it is to never underestimate those that have an evil predisposition) you can be totally anonymous and invisible on the internet.

RR I can see where your interest lies, the struggle to understand what we are can be very fascinating, many examples of the struggle of two seemingly contrary aspects of a personality have been portrayed in earlier literature sometimes as the struggle between good and bad. And although I think you are correct in your assumption about the article I sensed a movement towards depicting the ‘nice guy’ as the loser who will never become a Dominant. Since my own self image is that of a nice guy, I felt I had to give my 2.5 cents worth.

Another way of reading the article though is that of a “nice guy” who wants to please his partner so much that he (and of course she) could turn themselves into a sadist to please their cohort. Changing their own nature to one that is pleasing to their counterpart, maybe this could be described as the ultimate submissive act, turning into a Dominant to please another. Although a strange concept to most maybe not so far fetched…. was it not a rule of the old guard that to become a Dominant you had to be a submissive first?

Francisco.

Nice to see you too esclava

 

[RJMasters]

Although a strange concept to most maybe not so far fetched…. was it not a rule of the old guard that to become a Dominant you had to be a submissive first?

Would you be so kind as to expound on this. Its important to me. You can send it PM if you like so as not to take away from this thread. Much appreciated.

 

[TaintedB]

Originally posted by catalina_francisco
Hi Taint have to disagree here with you, if you know what you are doing (and if history has taught us anything it is to never underestimate those that have an evil predisposition) you can be totally anonymous and invisible on the internet.

IP masking takes a little bit of knowhow, IP maskng and other ID hiding from FBI and other agency software takes more knowhow, and sure a psychopath could learn the techniques but I don't think the chances of such a person doing all of that plus having the time and patience to "convert" an online relationship (i.e. get the online person to meet in person) when there's tons of instantly available meat for slashing up in the local bars is very likely.

The risks you run aren't just from the feds de-anonomyzing you, either. You run a high risk that you chosen Internet victim will speak with others about you, might even drop some non-computer-ID facts that would allow somebody to find you. If the victim takes even the minimal precautions many people take when meeting somebody from online for the first time, then somebody else knows where she is going to meet you, has agreed with her about what to do if there is a no-safe-call or if she utters a a trouble codeword in her check-in call. Other potentially traceable items become involved if the victim is remote: phone calls, airline tickets, etc. Even if you take extreme care to choose a particularly naive, vulnerable, and isolated online victim, i think the risk-to-reward ratio is far higher than just turning on the charm and picking up a girl in a bar or nabbing a child off the street.

Anyway, don't mean to argue with you. One thing your post made me think of is that there are plenty of evil people who are also relatively stupid or ignorant, and those types would try to solicit a victim online because they were ignorant of risks involved. But once again, I have to wonder, why would they do this sort of thing online, where it takes so relatively long to get one's chosen victim in one's clutches when there are so many local venues for finding prey that bring relatively instant gratification?

--Taint

 

[catalina_francisco]

Hello RJMasters,

With my apologies to RR for hijacking his thread temporarily here are some links that might give you more information. It has been a while since we have had a discussion about the old guard and their protocols. I do not claim to be a great expert on the matter, being European and the old guard being mostly an US phenomenon, there are wiser persons on this subject and it might be a good idea to start a thread about the Old Guard.

http://www.tdl.com/~thawley/history.htm
http://www.leatherquest.com/education/protocol.htm
http://www.iron-rose.com/vijohnson/docs/blic1197.htm
http://www.sensuoussadie.com/articles/virgobdsmcommunity.htm

I do not by the way disapprove or approve of the pratice of first being a bottom before being a top, I just think it all depends on the individual involved. I have tried being a submissive, (once was enough) and to me it was not the right path.

Francisco.

 

[catalina_francisco]

HI Taint,

I am an Internet Security Consultant, something which I have often said on the board, who loves discussions. My speciality is penetration testing, I love calling myself a professional penetration expert… has a nice ring to it, does it not?

Internet crime is rising, anonymity has become extremely simple, hiding your identity is as simple as joining an Anonymous Internet Service, and no, the FBI has tried but they can not force those companies to give their records to them.

Hiding your identity by using IP masking is really an outdated technology which is actually not very effective since nowadays most FW have source routing disabled which makes it almost impossible for IP-masking to work effectively. I am making a guess here but I would say you are in the IT industry?

Here are some interesting links for you.

http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/predators/john_robinson/
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/strategy/statistics.asp
http://www.cert.org/about/ecrime.html
http://www.anonymization.net/

Francisco.