BDSM & Creativity - Research!

[Shankara20]

Can kinky sex make you more creative? Researchers claim BDSM can help people achieve 'altered states of consciousness'

"Engaging in kinky sex may send you into an altered state of consciousness and even unlock your inner creativity, according to a new study.

Using a small sample of participants from the kink-focused social network Fetlife, researchers investigated the mind-altering effects of BDSM – bondage/discipline, dominance/submission, and sadism/masochism.

Not only were these activities found to produce two types of altered states, but research suggests BDSM also reduces psychological stress, improves moods, and increases sexual arousal."


Link> full new story....


i absolutely buy this all the way. It captures my experience and why I fell so hard for BDSM.

(Sorry if this was covered in another thread, I looked but did not see one)

 

[Blue]

Unfortunately this study is placed firmly on the scientific trash heap.
How to spot bad science, use the zoom for the small print.

Not to mean that there's nothing to it, but this would never ever be published in a credible journal. Add to that the fact that only Rupert Murdoch's notoriously anti-facts and bad-reporting publications are the only ones broadcasting this news.
Although I doubt any of us need to be told that it causes an altered mental state, so maybe there's an ounce of credibility to it?

~ ~ ~

I read the study they're citing. Literally the entire point of it was to determine whether or not people experience unique highs when in BDSM roles. So I guess they got their answer. The enhancing creativity thing is apparently a clickbait fabrication by the Daily Mail author.
Sorry I'm such a buzzkill Shank

 

[Shankara20]

Sorry I'm such a buzzkill Shank

No problem, the buzzkill is OK. I did have a hoot when I heard it on Wait Wait Don't Tell Me last weekend.


And I always have my own experiences to remember.

 

[MastersDelight]

Unfortunately this study is placed firmly on the scientific trash heap.
How to spot bad science, use the zoom for the small print.

Not to mean that there's nothing to it, but this would never ever be published in a credible journal. Add to that the fact that only Rupert Murdoch's notoriously anti-facts and bad-reporting publications are the only ones broadcasting this news.
Although I doubt any of us need to be told that it causes an altered mental state, so maybe there's an ounce of credibility to it?

~ ~ ~

I read the study they're citing. Literally the entire point of it was to determine whether or not people experience unique highs when in BDSM roles. So I guess they got their answer. The enhancing creativity thing is apparently a clickbait fabrication by the Daily Mail author.
Sorry I'm such a buzzkill Shank

Unique as in a high they can only get from BDSM or unique as in each person gets a different high? Or both?

I'd be interested to know what chemicals are typically released to cause sub/Dom space. A concerned vanilla in my life seems to think that I'll have to increase the risk factor of my play over time in order to keep achieving my desired high until I die. Like a drug addict that has to take higher and higher doses. I really didn't have a good enough explanation of why that's not really the case in order to put them at ease.

 

[Blue]

Unique as in a high they can only get from BDSM or unique as in each person gets a different high? Or both?

The abstract suggested BDSM-unique.

I'd be interested to know what chemicals are typically released to cause sub/Dom space. A concerned vanilla in my life seems to think that I'll have to increase the risk factor of my play over time in order to keep achieving my desired high until I die. Like a drug addict that has to take higher and higher doses. I really didn't have a good enough explanation of why that's not really the case in order to put them at ease.

Drug tolerances only form (for different reasons and through different mechanisms) because our bodies/brains are compensating for the increased concentration of any given tolerance-forming drug. The highs in question only result from a release of certain neurotransmitters in response to context, not from an external 'third-party' chemical that facilitates or stimulates that release. So there's nothing for a person's body to compensate for.

Similar examples could be playing tennis or doing some sort of hobby contrasted with eating cheeseburgers.
The person likes cheeseburgers because they're practically getting an injection of fats and sugars which brains just love, but with tennis there's no external drug or chemical stimuli. Also take note that (I don't think?) people can form tolerance to sugar because not all drugs cause them to form.

You're supposed to be the medical person here.

 

[MastersDelight]

The abstract suggested BDSM-unique.

Drug tolerances only form (for different reasons and through different mechanisms) because our bodies/brains are compensating for the increased concentration of any given tolerance-forming drug. The highs in question only result from a release of certain neurotransmitters in response to context, not from an external 'third-party' chemical that facilitates or stimulates that release. So there's nothing for a person's body to compensate for.

Similar examples could be playing tennis or doing some sort of hobby contrasted with eating cheeseburgers.
The person likes cheeseburgers because they're practically getting an injection of fats and sugars which brains just love, but with tennis there's no external drug or chemical stimuli. Also take note that (I don't think?) people can form tolerance to sugar because not all drugs cause them to form.

You're supposed to be the medical person here.

Psh not PEOPLE medicine, people are gross .

It makes sense that a person wouldn't build up tolerence because there's no external drug or chemical stimuli. I think to them, it's an adrenaline rush. And if that's the case then I'm just an adrenaline junkie with specific tastes and will eventually have to take more risks in order to get that rush because once something has been done so many times it won't cause a rush anymore. If that makes sense...

 

[Blue]

Psh not PEOPLE medicine, people are gross .

It makes sense that a person wouldn't build up tolerence because there's no external drug or chemical stimuli. I think to them, it's an adrenaline rush. And if that's the case then I'm just an adrenaline junkie with specific tastes and will eventually have to take more risks in order to get that rush because once something has been done so many times it won't cause a rush anymore. If that makes sense...

Think about the progression of a supposed BDSM junkie though...

"Hmm, the flogger's not doing it for me anymore..."

"Sticking pins in my hands is getting old..."

"Flaying my skin with a rusty tin can just isn't what it used to be..."

"Being wrapped in barbed wire and hung by the ankles barely registers anymore..."

"Rolled down a hill in a barrel with nails and spikes hammered into the sides on fire is practically flogging nowadays..."

"I'm running out of limbs to cut off..."

 

[MastersDelight]

Think about the progression of a supposed BDSM junkie though...

"Hmm, the flogger's not doing it for me anymore..."

"Sticking pins in my hands is getting old..."

"Flaying my skin with a rusty tin can just isn't what it used to be..."

"Being wrapped in barbed wire and hung by the ankles barely registers anymore..."

"Rolled down a hill in a barrel with nails and spikes hammered into the sides on fire is practically flogging nowadays..."

"I'm running out of limbs to cut off..."

*gigglesnort*

Ok I got it

 

[Shankara20]

It makes sense that a person wouldn't build up tolerence because there's no external drug or chemical stimuli. I think to them, it's an adrenaline rush. And if that's the case then I'm just an adrenaline junkie with specific tastes and will eventually have to take more risks in order to get that rush because once something has been done so many times it won't cause a rush anymore. If that makes sense...

That is a big part of it for me. The addition of a unique/unknown/forbidden/strange/fearful component brings that adrenaline addition and thus makes the dopamine payoff that so much MORE! When that adrenaline producing part becomes familiar the payoff diminishes.

Now the payoff from pain play is something else, for me at least.

My draw to BDSM first is the unique/unknown/forbidden/strange/fearful component.

And add to it that during play my adult ADHD calms down, sharp focus is possible and I feel totally present - no matter if i'm Top or bottom...

The "altered state of consciousness" is interesting given the experiences I have had with heavy breath-work and ayahuasca in other settings. Fruit for more conversation if there is interest.

 

[gracie920101]

That is a big part of it for me. The addition of a unique/unknown/forbidden/strange/fearful component brings that adrenaline addition and thus makes the dopamine payoff that so much MORE! When that adrenaline producing part becomes familiar the payoff diminishes.

Now the payoff from pain play is something else, for me at least.

My draw to BDSM first is the unique/unknown/forbidden/strange/fearful component.

And add to it that during play my adult ADHD calms down, sharp focus is possible and I feel totally present - no matter if i'm Top or bottom...

The "altered state of consciousness" is interesting given the experiences I have had with heavy breath-work and ayahuasca in other settings. Fruit for more conversation if there is interest.

I find it fascinating that you feel no ADHD during play regardless of your role. Are there multiple kinds of endorphins released or can they act on the system in a different way in order to overload or mask the ADHD so as to make you unaware?
Having commented on this, I have to confess that I didn't read the article but find the comments intriguing. Now I have to backtrack because my curiosity is aroused!

 

[gracie920101]

That is a big part of it for me. The addition of a unique/unknown/forbidden/strange/fearful component brings that adrenaline addition and thus makes the dopamine payoff that so much MORE! When that adrenaline producing part becomes familiar the payoff diminishes.

Now the payoff from pain play is something else, for me at least.

My draw to BDSM first is the unique/unknown/forbidden/strange/fearful component.

And add to it that during play my adult ADHD calms down, sharp focus is possible and I feel totally present - no matter if i'm Top or bottom...

The "altered state of consciousness" is interesting given the experiences I have had with heavy breath-work and ayahuasca in other settings. Fruit for more conversation if there is interest.

I find it fascinating that you feel no ADHD during play regardless of your role. Are there multiple kinds of endorphins released or can they act on the system in a different way in order to overload or mask the ADHD so as to make you unaware?
Having commented on this, I have to confess that I didn't read the article but find the comments intriguing. Now I have to backtrack and do so because my curiosity is aroused!

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[HisArpy]

Part of my book research required that I read a LOT of studies and commentary on how people react because of BDSM or other fetishes. (I don't have the links anymore. Once I got what I wanted from them I deleted them so I can't link to them for you guys.)

It's interesting that those studies for the most part did tend to support some of the things that this study talks about. I don't know if that because of some common factor, fudging, plagerism, etc. but creativity and personal satisfaction tend to be higher among the lifestyle participants. We seem to be more inventive and happy with ourselves because we have an outlet for what's inside our heads and driving our urges.

I can't speak to the chemical changes except to say that if you like something, you will try to repeat whatever did it for you. Endorphins and dopamine are powerful. I also think they're addictive in a limited fashion. Case in point; I like orgasms and I want another one. And another, and another...

On the other side of the equation is an issue of whether "general consensus" fails to support these types of studies because they are so unusual and 'out there'. Vanilla rules the world and doesn't necessarily like alternative flavor choices.

All in all, I think at this point we're probably looking through a scientific peephole (is that kinky or perverted?) at the alt lifestyle and trying to figure out if what we're seeing is real or not. It won't be until after some tipping point where BDSM comes into the open that we'll get hard facts and data. Until then, this type of study can swing both ways and I wouldn't rule out either opinion.

 

[MastersDelight]

failed to make sense this morning.

It boils down to this: Addictions and addicts vary.

For adrenaline junkies, there is absolutely a slide. One would think that you couldn't get a more reliable adrenaline fix than by jumping out of a plane, and yet base jumping and air boarding are both things, and sky junkies do sometimes complain that nothing beats that first jump.

For masochists, where the fix really does lie in the pain, there can be a slide, but it's clearly not as steep. Tattoo junkies tend to want to get bigger tattoos, (longer sessions) and I've heard of people paying for "empty needle sessions" ie tattoos without the ink; to get their fix a little cheaper & without "fouling up the existing artwork." From what I've heard, masochists seem to just need breaks for the desensitization effects to wear off. The fix seems to be related symptoms of shock.

that's two entirely different brain chemistries though; both flung under the umbrella of sadomasochism. Sure maybe one could be a gateway for the other, in that they can end up being conflated into the same pot of activities through BDSM and therefore lead someone to trying out a variety of mental state altering activities.... but we haven't even touched on the altered states reachable through the mental aspects of D/s.

which brings me to the other point I was trying to make earlier; that flogging really isn't a masochistic activity; it's more of a D/s activity. Flogging doesn't hurt that much, unless unusual measures have been taken, such as barbing the flogger.

Yes.. some people do graduate (often rapidly) from flogging to caning to whips and bastinado. And many people don't. But even so, there's a logical progression. Impact players who find their fix through impact play tend to STICK WITH impact play.

Masochists who find that flogging barely scratched adjacent to their particular itch in the first place quickly drop impact play and move on to something else (you know, unless impact play does it for their partner. We often forget that the whip has two ends)

so: starting your theoretical BDSM junkie slide with flogging is inherently flawed... and kind of offensive. If flogging doesn't do it for you anymore; maybe catharsis isn't your fix. That doesn't mean you're going to be rolling down a hill in flaming barrels full of glass and cutting off limbs. Those are three entirely unrelated fetishes. That someone doesn't always graduate from flogging to other, more painful activities doesn't mean there isn't ever a slide. It depends on what mental states may or may not get triggered and how a particular addict forms.

I've never heard of the barrel torture one, but to each their own. You know, until there's amputation & cannibalism... you gotta draw the line somewhere.

Thank you Stag This is clarifying.

Flogging for us is a warm up. The two we have are medium weight. They're great for warming up and dropping me into a nice float. When doubled they can pound, Master has done full swings like one would do with a baseball bat over my back and buttocks. It's an attention getter lol. Once warmed up he likes to change between punching and other impact toys like the galley whip, crop, belt and canes. After a particularly difficult plateau he'll go back to the floggers. As for other things we haven't really tried, like needles, electro play, fire cupping etc. They are things I wouldn't mind trying, but not something I feel I need RIGHT NOW. Impact is my love. I crave it, need it to feel stable and fulfilled. But even in my limited experiences, each scene is unique, I'm never quite sure what kind of ride it will be.

 

[Blue]

[..]

The progressively more extreme torture devices was just a joke on MD's friend implying that she'll build tolerance to 'normal' activities and resort to more dangerous things.

 

[MastersDelight]

oh. well... yep. that happens, particularly for adrenaline junkies.

If "there's nothing like being beaten bloody with a loaded pistol and forced to choke on cock with a gun to my temple" tells you anything.

then again, my memory is about as reliable as Lit's post search engine. If I could find it I'd quote it for you.

Yeesh. Loaded? No thanks. We did a role play once with an empty pistol. Mag wasn't in it and we both checked it twice to be sure the chamber was empty. This particular model also locks the trigger if the mag isn't in. He hid behind the door and "attacked" me. It was one of those things that sounds really hot and heart racing, in action he felt uncomfortable. We've also tried this scenario with a (very dull) knife. He likes using his hands more.

 

[Shankara20]

Are there multiple kinds of endorphins released or can they act on the system in a different way in order to overload or mask the ADHD so as to make you unaware?

I don't know the chemistry involved with Adult ADHD so I can't speak to your question. I just know that when, of me, when play starts all the small parts of me that are generally scattered all over the place snap fully to the hear & now. Play is one of the few places in my life I can deeply focus.

 

[Shankara20]

....the abandonment of self

Indeed - such abandonment opens me up to the Larger....

 

[Shankara20]

We seem to be more inventive and happy with ourselves because we have an outlet for what's inside our heads and driving our urges.

I have seen the same thing in my communities when I was active.

 

[Shankara20]

Impact players who find their fix through impact play tend to STICK WITH impact play.

Yup - if it gives you what you want why change....

 

[Shankara20]

The sub hoped to someday progress to piercing suspension.

be still my beating heart....

 

[Shankara20]

But even in my limited experiences, each scene is unique, I'm never quite sure what kind of ride it will be.

And this tends to keep the interest alive, predictability in a killer..

 

[Shankara20]

she was, ostensibly, a formidable martial artist in her own right, addicted to adrenaline high from actual danger. Role playing it out didn't cut it for her anymore.

 

[MastersDelight]

yeah I had a few moments like that.

The suspension barely piqued my interest. Surrendering to a priestess tugged at some heartstrings.

At a different time and place though, an intensely nostalgic recollection of the same high I myself experience from tasting blood (when I have a migraine) applied to a sexual context... described to me while I was buzzed no less (I very rarely have I EVER partaken of alcohol enough to get buzzed)

.... left me fragile.

For too long a moment; I yearned to give her exactly what she wanted. She could have looked at me just right, in that moment, & I'd have scrambled to find a knife to slit my own collar bone for this young woman I hardly knew. She didn't want it from me though.

Just as well.

It gave me a new appreciation for the legends of vampires enchanting their blood dolls.

I know this feeling. There's things I want sometimes, things I find hard to ask for. But if directed or told I'd do in a heartbeat

 

[Shankara20]

yeah I had a few moments like that.

The suspension barely piqued my interest. Surrendering to a priestess tugged at some heartstrings.

At a different time and place though, an intensely nostalgic recollection of the same high I myself experience from tasting blood (when I have a migraine) applied to a sexual context... described to me while I was buzzed no less (I very rarely have I EVER partaken of alcohol enough to get buzzed)

.... left me fragile.

For too long a moment; I yearned to give her exactly what she wanted. She could have looked at me just right, in that moment, & I'd have scrambled to find a knife to slit my own collar bone for this young woman I hardly knew. She didn't want it from me though.

Just as well.

It gave me a new appreciation for the legends of vampires enchanting their blood dolls.

(Sounds of Shank curled up in the corner sobbing for having left the San Francisco BDSM scene 15 years ago with so many unfulfilled yurnings... hook suspension, taking in fully a fisting, kavati..........)