BDSM and Christianity

[lilmiss93]

Hi A/all! i am unsure of the proper forum to post this so i hope this is the right one.

i am wondering what the boards thoughts are on the compatibility of BDSM lifestyles and Christian faith. As a devout Christian (as much as i can be) and a submissive i mostly feel that BDSM is compatible with Christianity. i believe strongly in traditional gender roles and more conservative leanings towards my personal beliefs. Which in many ways does seem to fit in with BDSM and a Dom sub lifestyle. Yet often i feel unsure if my sexual cravings are in line with my Christian beliefs.

Do any of you have any thoughts on this you may like to share?

 

[elli1point1]

you'll go to hell for this.

 

[MeekMe]

Look into domestic discipline or Taken in Hand relationships. Not my cup of tea but go have fun if it’s what you’re into.

 

[LucyBee01]

This is an area I am interested in, so keen to see what others have to say. Wish I had great ideas myself, but have been avoiding thinking about this too much as have had so much other more immediate stuff to think through.
Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Blue]

If you want the strictly theological answer I think it's a pretty clear and resounding "No. Obviously not".
Your correlation of the religion and gender roles doesn't matter when the holy book itself (Allegedly a direct look into the mind of the almighty himself) is pretty clear that god doesn't even tolerate being gay ("Abomination" and all that), which on its face is far less morally ambiguous and esoteric than this. It also means that god doesn't care about whether what you do in the bedroom is an expression of love or not, he just cares about the way in which you do it. Combine that with the many times Jesus condemned any kind of violence which you obviously generally find in this topic, I think 'turn the other cheek' pretty well sums up his ideas on it. So to me it's pretty black and white.

I know it maybe sounds like I'm trying to be harsh because I'm not indulging a comforting interpretation but I promise I'm coming at this neutrally.

 

[Nezhul]

Do you believe in God?

If yes, then he will definitely not disappear if you practice BDSM. That's what I think.

To rephrase - you don't need any guidelines to be religious. And as far as I know - you don't need to do anything specific for God to love you. He just kind of loves you anyway, if you believe in him. So there's that.

But if you ask how Church looks onto BDSM - probably negatively. But I'm not good with Churches and religions, so don't take my word for it and I'll not speculate further on the matter.

 

[AlbertShufflebottom]

Well plenty of monks way back when practised all manner of physical mortification both upon themselves and upon one another and, if anything, the church of the day seemed to think this would bring them closer to Heaven. So if parts of the church of today condemn such practices it's probably more a question of fashion than of any fundamental doctrinal prohibitions.

 

[cookiecat]

When you say "sexual cravings" - not sure what that is. Whatever you're doing within a monogamous, loving relationship seems like it would fit with the Bible's teachings.

As to the power exchange between Dom / sub, have to agree with Meekme - look in to the Head of Household or Taken in Hand. Reading through some of the information around this might help you reconcile some of your feelings.

 

[Miles Long]

It probably depends on what BDSM and/or sex you are interested in and what version of Christianity you are interested in. Considering how much variation in belief and practice there exists in both those fields, I'm sure it is possible to find a version of each that will be compatible with the other.

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

^ Like the handsome man in the sunglasses said, it depends on what subsect of Christianity you subscribe to. All the answers you’d need for yourself, are to be found in what you practice, and what you yourself believe aside from it.

Do you cherry pick what parts of your religion you follow, or do you follow the scriptures to the letter? Is it just a lip service label because you were raised that way, or do you just believe in the Christian idea of God? Is your church laid back and accepting of various subcultures and sexualities, or are they a ultra conservative branch that condemns practitioners of other faiths and “ deviant “ sexual behaviors to burn? Etc. etc. And, after sifting through all of that, ask yourself what you think and whether or not you agree.

 

[Farawyn]

I know a very Christian Dom who is not only a practicing Dom, but is very kinky.
I asked him how he made peace with both sides and he never really answered me. And he would have, if he knew. I think he just...doesn’t. I think part of his life is very secret.
If one can do that, that’s cool for them. I’m not built that way. I’m glad I’m not bound to answer to a Church or God regarding my sexuality.

 

[adrina]

To play devil's advocate, what of submissive males and dominant females? That hardly fits into the "traditional gender roles" of Christianity.

 

[Miles Long]

To play devil's advocate, what of submissive males and dominant females? That hardly fits into the "traditional gender roles" of Christianity.

Now are you advocating for the Christian devil or another one?

 

[Farawyn]

As far as I know, most Christian religions are patriarchial.
So, I’m thinking, submissive males are a no no.

Unless they are altar boys.

 

[adrina]

Now are you advocating for the Christian devil or another one?

Many say better the devil you know than the devil you don't.

As far as I know, most Christian religions are patriarchial.
So, I’m thinking, submissive males are a no no.

Unless they are altar boys.

I threw it out there because so often when people think of d/s and religion it is one sided, with submissive women and dominant men. But that is not reflective of the reality of bdsm. Submission and dominance are not gender specific.

To be clear, I don't think any god would have a problem with what consensual adults do - regardless of gender. However my thinking is not constrained by traditionalism or religion.

 

[Farawyn]

Many say better the devil you know than the devil you don't.



I threw it out there because so often when people think of d/s and religion it is one sided, with submissive women and dominant men. But that is not reflective of the reality of bdsm. Submission and dominance are not gender specific.

To be clear, I don't think any god would have a problem with what consensual adults do - regardless of gender. However my thinking is not constrained by traditionalism or religion.

I agree.

 

[MeekMe]

OP, there are a lot of Christian BDSM groups. If you join fetlife and search for Christian you find a lot of people that either combine their faith with the activities, or simply have both in their lives.

And thanks cookiecat, head of household was the other term I was looking for but couldn’t remember.

Along with these groups are those that are all genders and sexual orientation. I think finding a group specific to this will give you the best help.

 

[Miles Long]

This thread reminds me of a Baptist minister in Alabama who died of "accidental mechanical asphyxiation" while engaged in some self-bondage about ten years ago. The link to the story is here.

He was in two wetsuits, a mask, rubber gloves and slippers, rubber underwear, and had a dildo up his ass when he put himself in a hog-tie. All of that together is really dangerous to do when you're by yourself. Pro tip: when practicing self-bondage, always leave one arm free and have keys/shears/phone within easy reach, or have a spotter there with you. Don't put yourself in a bunch of rubber clothing that restricts your movement and covers your face and then tie yourself up in a tie you can't undo. Bad things can (and in this case, did) happen!

 

[KimGordon67]

This thread reminds me of a Baptist minister in Alabama who died of "accidental mechanical asphyxiation" while engaged in some self-bondage about ten years ago. The link to the story is here.

He was in two wetsuits, a mask, rubber gloves and slippers, rubber underwear, and had a dildo up his ass when he put himself in a hog-tie. All of that together is really dangerous to do when you're by yourself. Pro tip: when practicing self-bondage, always leave one arm free and have keys/shears/phone within easy reach, or have a spotter there with you. Don't put yourself in a bunch of rubber clothing that restricts your movement and covers your face and then tie yourself up in a tie you can't undo. Bad things can (and in this case, did) happen!

It's sort of hard to imagine how bad things couldn't happen in that particular scenario ... unless you've engineered so you'll be found within a relevant timeframe.

 

[_Necrosomantic_]

To be clear, I don't think any god would have a problem with what consensual adults do - regardless of gender.

A fair point.
But.
Last time I checked, it wasn’t “ God “ out there protesting funerals or women’s clinics with signs talking about how much he hates gays. It’s about people’s interpretations of things written by others who interpreted or based them on the accounts of others hundreds of years ago, and what they choose to emphasize or misinterpret that are why we have such extreme and adverse ideas about things like sex. Most modern religion is not about what “ God “ thinks, it’s about what someone tells you he/she/they/it thinks, and that you should think that way too. Just my thoughts, I’m no great authority.

 

[KimGordon67]

When you say "sexual cravings" - not sure what that is. Whatever you're doing within a monogamous, loving relationship seems like it would fit with the Bible's teachings.

As to the power exchange between Dom / sub, have to agree with Meekme - look in to the Head of Household or Taken in Hand. Reading through some of the information around this might help you reconcile some of your feelings.

I agree with this - I think most churches have moved beyond the 'sex is only for procreation' ideal and accept that the capacity for a pleasurable (although obviously monogamous) sex life is one of the gifts god had endowed humanity with.

And TBH, I've had people describe marriages to me that they'd said are along d/s lines (in something like a dd/lg sense), but sound like fundamentally traditional gender roles to me. So I'd say there's room to fit it all together if you want to.

 

[cookiecat]

It's sort of hard to imagine how bad things couldn't happen in that particular scenario ... unless you've engineered so you'll be found within a relevant timeframe.

Apparently he didn't pray hard enough.

 

[clistenovena]

Yet often i feel unsure if my sexual cravings are in line with my Christian beliefs.

I feel unsure all the time. The paradigm of religion being okay with my sexual preferences just won't set, despite my efforts.

My sexuality is a big part of who I am, but so is my faith, even when they are at odds.

Exactly that. This contradiction has settled in and just become part of how my mind wanders and wonders through the chaos.

 

[mrdean1505]

Bdsm and Christianity...I think it totally works...

Maybe it's the history I've read or the many historical pieces of fiction I have read, but I think the two work well together. There is nothing like a priest taking charge of the scene and making a shy but beautiful young congregant enjoy the devilish joys of his form of Christianity. I'm sure you can all imagine; I love being a preacher or a priest or monk. At the same time, a woman could be a nun and totally make the male do all of her biddings simply for some salvation.

I actually love this type of role play!

 

[Bramblethorn]

I know a very Christian Dom who is not only a practicing Dom, but is very kinky.
I asked him how he made peace with both sides and he never really answered me. And he would have, if he knew. I think he just...doesn’t. I think part of his life is very secret.
If one can do that, that’s cool for them. I’m not built that way. I’m glad I’m not bound to answer to a Church or God regarding my sexuality.

ObWhitman: "Do I contradict myself? Very well, then I contradict myself, I am large, I contain multitudes."

I'm an atheist, but I grew up surrounded by Christianity and I've never been above looking through other people's religions for things that might be worth pinching, or just to understand them better...

One of my favourite Christian writers wrote a couple of excellent posts about Christianity and homosexuality (here and here.

He discusses Scriptural interpretations, but his main point is to chastise people who focus on two passages from Paul that might be saying "homosexuality bad" while blithely ignoring things that Jesus emphasised, like the evils of materialism. (Prosperity Doctrine, I'm looking at you...) C.S. Lewis made similar points in his "Mere Christianity" many years earlier: there are seven deadly sins, and people who indulge in Pride and Gluttony while excoriating others for Lust are in for a nasty surprise.

Most strains of Christian teaching involve the idea that nobody is without sin; it boils down to "if we got what we deserve we'd all go to hell, but Jesus is generous enough to save us from that, if we only let him". Which means that you don't have to be sinless (by whatever definition) to be Christian; while Christians certainly should strive to avoid sin, it's more important to acknowledge that sin and accept forgiveness for it.

I think most of us, Christians or otherwise, have some sort of moral contradictions in our lives.

A year ago I adopted a stray kitten, who I adore - and a few weeks later we trapped her father and turned him over to the pound, knowing that as an unsocialised adult tom he would inevitably be euthanased. Then I came home and petted Ms. TinyCat and had some very complicated feelings about all that.

I've been told that pigs are just as smart and likeable as dogs, and I have no reason to disbelieve it. But I couldn't bring myself to eat dog, and yet I still eat pork quite often. I used to eat rabbit, and then I stopped because I was dating somebody who kept pet rabbits, and now we're no longer together and I'm no longer sure how I feel about eating rabbit.

I'm worried about the state of the world - environment, global warming, etc. etc. - and yet I fly, and use things that I don't really need, because of habits and things I enjoy. I support charities that I believe in, but I could give them a lot more if I cut down on some of the frivolous stuff I enjoy; it's hard to feel morally consistent about spending a couple of hundred dollars on a game when that money could be buying food or vaccinations or books for teachers somewhere in the world.

etc. etc. etc.

I would be surprised if there was any human adult who lived free from this sort of contradiction, except for the ones who avoid it by having no morals at all. Each of us is a bunch of conflicting drives and beliefs that happen to share a brain, and there's no reason to expect that we'll reconcile those in a tidy way.

So, yeah, being a Christian who practices BDSM might be morally inconsistent (I don't profess to expertise on what the Bible says about everything that comes under "BDSM") but moral inconsistency is the human condition.

/personalmusing

(note, I'm presenting those personal examples by way of illustration; I'm not looking to drag this thread off-topic by debating those particular issues here.)