Battle of The Somme

[Guest]

This weekend marks the 90th anniversary of the beggining of this prolonged and horrific battle.

As it passes out of living memory, let us not forget what so many sacrificed for us.

From the BBC website:

"The British lost more than 19,000 men in the first day of battle; there were more than 420,000 British and commonwealth casualties by the end of the campaign in November."​

Link HERE

I have my own, personal, story about The Somme...

At the outbreak of WW1 my paternal grandfather was just 14, but he wanted to serve. By 1915, he'd managed to lie his way into the Reservists/Volunteers (with the help of a doctored birth certificate), and at the beginning of 1916 he went to the frontline. I only know bits and pieces about what happened, because he died in 1964 - eight years before I was born, but I have heard a little from my Nan and Dad.

He was there in 1916, serving at the front. He saw many of his friends and fellow soldiers die around him. A child in a man's world (like so many others) he went into it in blind faith - with a feeling almost that it was an exciting adventure. My Nan doesn't even know much about what happened (they met years later, just before the outbreak of WW2) and he never spoke much about the Great War, let alone the Battle of The Somme, but she knows he was there, on the frontline.

The biggest thing she has always recalled was his immense sense of guilt. That sounds daft, but he witnessed so many die, and, apperently in his words, all he suffered was "a bullet through the wrist". He had a scar on his wrist, where a bullet had passed clean through. He never told how it happened, but my Dad remembers him showing him and briefly mentioning what caused the scar.

As the memories of that horrific event pass from living history, let us not forget our relatives who served for us, and what they endured, so that we may be free.

For you, Grandad.

 

[oggbashan]

The only success achieved on the first day was by the Irish regiments.

For a few hundred yards, that they had to give up by the end of the day, they lost half their number.

You could walk the distance they won in a couple of minutes. Every inch was soaked in Irish blood.

We Brits tend to forget how many nations, now independent, volunteered to help us and paid a terrible price.

Og

 

[Rumple Foreskin]

As some of you may know, I'm a combat vet. Over the years I've talked with other vets who served in other wars. IMHO, there's a certain timeless, universality to infantry combat. But I've always been in awe of those who served in WW I and, even after years of fruitless slaughter and enduring the misery of the trenches, went "over the top" and into "no man's land."

Your Grandad was a special person, Tatelou.

Rumple Foreskin

 

[neonlyte]

Beautiful post Lou, you do great credit to your Grandfather's courage.

The Portuguese contingent was virtually wiped out by dysentry, the Germans finished off the rest. After the war the Portuguese goverment was presented with a bill for £80m for ammunitions used. Democracy had collapsed and the League of Nations imposed stringent terms for assisting with repaying the loan. Thus was ushered in fifty years of dictatorship as the government turned to the young economist, Salazar, to help find a way out of their economic plight.

Hans Leip, stationed on the Eastern Front, composed this one night standing sentry duty at the camp gate, whilst it is a German song, the words are synonymous with the emotions of both sides:

Underneath the lantern by the barrack gate
Darling, I remember how you used to wait.
'Twas there that you whispered tenderly,
That you lov'd me; you'd always be,
My Lili of the lamplight, My own Lili Marlene.

When the USA joined the war, Lili Marlene was taken up by Marlene Dietrich, and the song crossed all frontiers.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

World War I was the great crisis and tragedy of Western Civilization. It caused the West to lose confidence in its own value and worth, and we never got it back. No one has ever satisfactorily explained the war. Not its beginning in August, 1914, but why it continued after the first few months made clear to all that it was nothing but a meatgrinder that would detroy lives and nations to no purpose. Some deep spirtitual or philosophical malaise had to have infected the West in the decades before the war; how else could men of good will and reason all sides have failed to say, "This is insane - Stop!"

The Great Depression, Stalin, World War II and countless other tragedies of the 20th Century all have roots in World War I. The world never really recovered from it.

Thank you, Tatelou, for the reminder.


Edited to add: The West had many blemishes before 1914: Colonialism, unjust class systems, racism and more. World War I ensured that these injustices would be resolved in oceans of blood, rather than through reason-based processes founded on the humane and liberal values invented by the West, such as tolerance, and the belief that all men are created equal and have value.

 

[English Lady]

We should never, ever forget


for all those who died for us.

 

[matriarch]

This thread prompted me to revisit some of the poetry and diaries of WWI, and in the process, came across this. It is a plain, simple chronological list of all the major events, facts and figures of that apalling war, but that simplicity in itself makes those same facts chilling and almost overwhelming.

 

[rgraham666]

Shivers.

One of the problems with being an historian is you know to much about things like this foolish battle.

I, like Rumple, am in awe of the men who lived through this. And I pray for them to be at peace.

 

[matriarch]

The Soldier
Rupert Brooke

If I should die, think only this of me:
That there's some corner of a foreign field
That is for ever England. There shall be
In that rich earth a richer dust concealed;
A dust whom England bore, shaped, made aware,
Gave, once, her flowers to love, her ways to roam,
A body of England's, breathing English air,
Washed by the rivers, blest by suns of home.

And think, this heart, all evil shed away,
A pulse in the eternal mind, no less
Gives somewhere back the thoughts by England given;
Her sights and sounds; dreams happy as her day;
And laughter, learnt of friends; and gentleness,
In hearts at peace, under an English heaven.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

There are no nice words you can say about any war other than Thank you to those who fought with courage and honour.

To the victims and survivors.

 

[matriarch]

If anyone's interested, you can read more of 'The Poets' of WWI here.

They produce the pictures and emotions to go with the cold facts and figures.

Rest in Peace.
You have our eternal thanks for your sacrifices, every one of you.

 

[oggbashan]

The Youngest Brother

In the entrance hall of my Australian school is the Roll of Honour of those who died in World War 1, World War 2, Korea, Vietnam and other conflicts.

To me, five names stand out. They were five brothers who went to fight in World War 1 and died, either at Gallipoli or on the Western Front.

On other boards around the hall are records of sporting and academic achievements. Those brothers feature on most. They were the school's brightest and best who volunteered to go to war as soon as they could.

Eventually the sixth and youngest brother went after them. Wounded, he survived World War 1 and served in World War 2 as a supply officer in New Guinea where the Australians were fighting the Japanese over the Kokodo Trail. As an 'elderly' supply officer he was supposed to be well behind the lines. As he said 'Someone had to show our mates how to work the b***** guns' so he went up the trail to demonstrate the new equipment in action face to face with the Japanese.

I am proud to say that I knew him and that he was my father's friend. He was not the least of the brothers. Australia was built by men like those brothers.

Og

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

America's wars:

The revolution was fought for freedom and liberty.

The Mexican-American war was fought to get the Southwest and California. (OK, not noble, but at least we knew what we were about.)

The Civil War was fought to free the slaves.

WWII was fought to rid the world of murderous dictators.

Korea and Viet Nam were fought with intention of saving the people of those nations from another form of dictatorship. (OK, we know what the road to hell is paved with, but again, at least we knew what we were about, and were 1-for-2 in outcomes.)

World War I was fought for . . .? ? ? ? ? ? ?

The similar litany could be recited for every other combatant nation in WWI (with the possible exception of France, at least at the start), concluded by the same row of question marks.



Yes, I know I've grossly ovesimplified all those "fought fors." The point remains.

 

[BlackShanglan]

Bless you for that, Ogg.

 

[hotchkiss]

My grandad was at the somme under age, he was in the cavalry as an ostler I believe.

He too never spoke much about it and I only learned of it after his death. He did mention to my mother about the unspeakable attrocities committed by both sides and the senseless waste of life.

My thoughts go out to all those good souls on all sides of all conflicts who gave up their most precious possession for their beliefs or countries. Tis a shame politicians never could do their job properly and defuse situations before the tragedy occurs.


HK
MIA

 

[Straight-8]

We Brits tend to forget how many nations, now independent, volunteered to help us and paid a terrible price.

Og

Beautiful post, Lou. Canada suffered 25,000 casualties in the battle of the Somme from a country that, at that time, had a population of around eight million. Canada won its battlefield reputation in this battle and was recognised by Lloyd George as 'storm troops' thereafter. Of course that meant they got to spearhead the assault in subsequent battles...a mixed blessing at best!

 

[kendo1]

Happy Birthday hotchkiss!

http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/gruppe/sir-smile-tuttisaltanti.gif

Ken

 

[hotchkiss]

Happy Birthday hotchkiss!

http://www.addis-welt.de/smilie/smilie/gruppe/sir-smile-tuttisaltanti.gif

Ken

Shh it's supposed to be a secret!

 

[dr_mabeuse]

World War I was the great crisis and tragedy of Western Civilization. It caused the West to lose confidence in its own value and worth, and we never got it back.

You're right about that. WWI put an end to our faith in science and progress and the perfectability of man that we've never recovered. More than any other factor it was responsible for the death of religion and saw the destruction of a social system and the European empires that, right or wrong, gave shape and sense to the world. It was the root cause of WWII as well as the Russian Revolution, which in turn led to the cold war.

Worse than that, it was a slaughter of terrifying efficiency and absolute futility, the first war of the machine age. Men were sent over the tops of the trenches into certain death by machinegun fire even though the generals knew it was hopeless, simply because no one had any other idea of what to do. The war started with dragoons on horseback with lances and plumed helmets and ended with mud, blood, poison gas, and the aerial bombardment of civilian targets.

John Keegan, the British military historian, has painted a brilliant picture of what it was like to be a British infantryman on the Somme on the opening day of the battle in his book The Face of Battle. He describes the canteens filled with gin and rum the men guzzled before going over the top, the total failure of the British artillery to neutralize the German defenses or clear the barbed wire between the trenches, and the way the men were caught on that wire and literally cut to pieces by massed machinegun fire.

It was hell on earth, and all a waste.

 

[oggbashan]

Artillery Failure

The British Artillery failed to cut the German wire because they used shrapnel shells filled with soft lead shot on steel barbed wire.

When soft lead meets steel, which is cut?

If they had used steel shot, as later in the war, the Battle of the Somme might have been different.

Simple changes in technology cost thousands of lives to develop.

Og

 

[neonlyte]

You're right about that. WWI put an end to our faith in science and progress and the perfectability of man that we've never recovered. More than any other factor it was responsible for the death of religion and saw the destruction of a social system and the European empires that, right or wrong, gave shape and sense to the world. It was the root cause of WWII as well as the Russian Revolution, which in turn led to the cold war.

Worse than that, it was a slaughter of terrifying efficiency and absolute futility, the first war of the machine age. Men were sent over the tops of the trenches into certain death by machinegun fire even though the generals knew it was hopeless, simply because no one had any other idea of what to do. The war started with dragoons on horseback with lances and plumed helmets and ended with mud, blood, poison gas, and the aerial bombardment of civilian targets.

John Keegan, the British military historian, has painted a brilliant picture of what it was like to be a British infantryman on the Somme on the opening day of the battle in his book The Face of Battle. He describes the canteens filled with gin and rum the men guzzled before going over the top, the total failure of the British artillery to neutralize the German defenses or clear the barbed wire between the trenches, and the way the men were caught on that wire and literally cut to pieces by massed machinegun fire.

It was hell on earth, and all a waste.

And no where is that waste more clear than walking the burial grounds of the Somme, and the Normandy fields of WWII, the endless landscape of crosses and the air redolent with the betrayal of dreams.

 

[AchtungNight]

I don't know for sure if I had ancestors in this battle, but I very well may have (especially if anyone from Clan Ramsay or anyone named Smith was at the battle). I do come from a large family that includes a lot of veterans. And if there is one thing I will always appreciate, it is history. Therefore I can do naught but send my sympathy to those who feel this loss of history today. I too do not forget.

Matriarch: Thanks for those poems. They are great. Another text on the war I'd like to recommend to all here is All Quiet on the Western Front. I read that book in 10th Grade, did a lot of papers on it, and liked it a lot. Even if I did drive my teacher nuts by often writing something like "until Paul turned on his rock music" in parentheses after the book's title.

 

[Xelebes]

I don't know if any of my relatives fought in the war. I know my grandfather was 1st Lieutenant in WWII but was born just a few months before the war broke out. I don't think my great-grandfather (father of that grandfather) served in that war. All my other great-grandfathers were farmers in Alberta so they were needed where they were. The only great-great-uncles I know of were doing something else. One was a priest who 4 years after the Great War became the moderator of the Scottish United Church. The other one I know of was busy in India-Pakistan designing and building mountain passes for trains and the sort. It would be plausible that some great-great uncles from Wales were sent to the war, but I have no records showing that they were. I guess it would be rather easy to find out though.

 

[Roxanne Appleby]

The British Artillery failed to cut the German wire because they used shrapnel shells filled with soft lead shot on steel barbed wire.

When soft lead meets steel, which is cut?

If they had used steel shot, as later in the war, the Battle of the Somme might have been different.

Simple changes in technology cost thousands of lives to develop.

Og

Hmmm. With all due respect, I have the sense that this is seeing the trees but not the forest. The tactical problems went a lot deeper than suggested here. They just did not have a clue of what they were dealing with. The generals were still thinking in terms of Napoleonic warfare, despite the fact that 50 years earlier the American Civil War had already demonstrated that rifles capable of 300 yard-plus accuracy had created a whole new ball game. The technology-fix that came close to solving the tactical problem was the invention of the tank, but that only provided one of the terms of the winning equation. The other was provided by Liddell-Hart in the 1920s, when in analyzing what had happened he essentially invented (or at least described) the idea of using tanks in a different way, an innovation that was the germ of "blitzkrieg." Guderian, Rommel and some other German chaps read it, thought about it, tried out a few things, and came close to conquering the world as a result.

But even that discussion is inadequate. Raise your gaze and your horizon a bit further and you are left with this: It was all pointless anyway. It is hard to think of a more purposeless war. The utter tragedy is that all those men, and Western Civiliation's confidence in its own worth, died for nothing. Absolutely nothing.



Edited to add: I think it is not coincidental that Liddell-Hart, the inventer of the theory that became blitzkreig, was also the great biographer of Sherman. Sherman understood what modern war was about much more than any of the generals of WWI, that it meant a war between peoples, not just armies. His march to the sea was really the the precursor of blitzkreig, and had the same conceptual basis.

 

[oggbashan]

Hmmm. With all due respect, I have the sense that this is seeing the trees but not the forest. The tactical problems went a lot deeper than suggested here. They just did not have a clue of what they were dealing with...

My post was solely concerned with WHY the wire wasn't cut on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, not on any wider issues.

Even if the wire had been cut effectively, the battle would not have decided anything except the possession of a few hundred yards of territory, and met the strategic intention of relieving pressure on the French Army.

The strategic intention was met. The cost in British and Allied lives was enormous. Was that cost worthwhile? If it prevented a French collapse, in the wider context of the whole war, possibly.

I think that the generals knew by the time of this battle just what sort of war they were facing. The war would be won by gradual attrition and the cost to both sides would be enormous. The politicians and leaders did not know, or if they did, ignored the truth.

Politicians and Imperial rulers brought about WWI by territorial ambition and self-seeking bargaining for advantage in a divided Europe. Once mobilisation started, the march to war was beyond stopping.

If they had realised what modern war would mean? Would they have pulled back? Given the mentality of rulers at the time, I doubt it.

The soldiers paid the price of their rulers' incompetence in blood.

Og