Barmitzvah

[NoJo]

I went to a meal held by a religious jewish couple to celebrate their son's barmitvah yesterday. As a very assimilated non religious guy I found it interesting. The Barmitvah boy (sorry, Man) was a nice kid, the youngest of four brothers.

His two oldest brothers, eighteen and seventeen, were very good-looking guys. They both had nice looking girlfriends, also from religious families. I was amazed to find out that they never touch each other. Never hold hands, let alone snog.

They'll quite probably be married within two or three years. I found myself wondering whether there was any advantage in terms of strengthening marriage ties, when the couple have never even touched each other before their wedding night. A long, long way from my own experience.

It all seems very weird and primitive to this child of the seventies. What do you think?

 

[Weird Harold]

It all seems very weird and primitive to this child of the seventies. What do you think?

Orthodox Jewish courting and marriage customs have to have some merit to have survived, essentially intact, for a couple of thousand years.

If it works for them and they're comfortable with their customs, then more power to them. "New" is not necessarily synonimous with "Improved."

 

[Guest]

on the first read through i thought you were talking about the older brothers... that they never touched...never snogged...
i was wondering where the hell you were going with that...

was joe thinking about writing a brotherly incest story? and what does that have to do with being jewish? did the youngest of the four brothers feel left out? the father wasnt religious so it was ok with him? when was the bris? did that have anything to do with the new fashion craze of foreskin turtle necks?

 

[tolyk]

Orthodox Jewish courting and marriage customs have to have some merit to have survived, essentially intact, for a couple of thousand years.

If it works for them and they're comfortable with their customs, then more power to them. "New" is not necessarily synonimous with "Improved."

[threadjack]

You know, I've never liked the term "new and improved", if something is new how can it be improved. It would be much better as "the newly improved" or some such statement.

[/threadjack]

 

[Softouch911]

I don't know if the sexual mores do much more than encourage a quick trigger on the honeymoon, but the refusal to accept divorce certainly helps make the marriage "last" longer.

Softie, wondering if they have 'Jackin' World' as a "Favorite"

 

[Guest]

I found myself wondering whether there was any advantage in terms of strengthening marriage ties, when the couple have never even touched each other before their wedding night.

Joe, I honestly think any couple can make of their circumstances whatever advantages they want or need, at least if there is mutual respect and good communication. Aside from religious observances of any sort, it wasn't that long ago that most couples married as virgins (at least the female half), or were 'virginal' to themselves. Some made out fine, others didn't. Naught to do with sex but some couples rely on friendship more than romance or lust. It's such a personal, individual thing.

Perdita

 

[DrFreud]

It all seems very weird and primitive to this child of the seventies. What do you think?

Why did it seem primitive to you?
I would consider cave-man sex to be primitive but not abstinence (forget about religious convictions, try having the woman explaining to the horny cave dude that she's having a headache...)

Anyway, I also heard that Hasidic Jews have sex through a hole in the bedsheet but apparently that's all bull

DrF

 

[BlackShanglan]

Naught to do with sex but some couples rely on friendship more than romance or lust.

This caught my eye because when I'd read the first half, I thought that it stood alone fairly nicely. Having recently read a lovely poem by Christine de Pisan mentioning (very generally of course) how her husband handled the wedding night, I thought what an enormous difference attitude makes. Experience or inexperience, as Perdita notes, can either of them work well or badly; I think if the couple proceeds from friendship and kindness, much good can come of either.

Shanglan