Banned Books?

[oggbashan]

From my bookdealers' newsletter:

It seems inconceivable to many outside the USA, but US Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit has upheld the judgment that sales of all books 'printed' outside the USA are now banned within the area of the Court.

This has caused some concern and not just to those working in the areas affected as we report below.

On the face of it, this judgment cannot be easily policed and commonsense suggests that somehow, this judgment has to be amended. But as one of our readers points out, and based on precedent, this may not be easily achieved.

To an outsider, two aspects appear to be inescapable: the law is almost impossible to enforce, and the courts seem to have missed the point that it is the 'purpose' in the act of importing and then selling in the USA that is crucial. It is one thing to import and then sell a personal copy of a book printed outside the USA - and another to import large numbers of books from overseas for subsequent resale with intent to avoid territorial rights.


What will this mean for antique books? For books never printed in the US?

Og

 

[driphoney]

Second Court of Appeals area? C'mon pardner, y'all know none of us Texans can read no how!

Besides, and I'm having trouble bringing anything on this up on Google, a case such of this would be appealed to the Supreme Court, so it's not the end all be all of the decision.

Gonna keep searching . . . .

ETA: When I took out "Second Court of Appeals" I was able to bring up this one blog:
http://blog.robballen.com/2011/01/23/p4542-fcc-to-ban-imported-books.post

Kind of surprising this is all that comes up and I'm not sure how reliable this one little blog is. Also, I couldn't remember where the 2nd Circuit was and what I pulled up said Texas, but it's not, it's New York. Hmmm. Back to Government 101.

ETA Part II: I see my confusion. Texas has two courts, the state criminal court is also called a Court of Appeals. So, when I googled, that link came up and I didn't scrutinize.

I think it's best I not post when 1.) scared (first day of school) and, 2.) Need coffee.

 

[R. Richard]

Unfortunately, the school systems in the USA tend to emphasize 'feeling' over 'thinking.' If a clever lawyer can stoke feelings, he/she can get court decisions of incredible stupidity recorded.

 

[AllardChardon]

Thanks for bringing this to our attention, Og. What possible good can such a judgment bring?

 

[driphoney]

Until the actual case is read, the details are unknown. Ogg's original newsletter article never mentioned the name of the case and no information is coming up on a search other than that one blog I found which doesn't mention a court case, just an FCC ruling. All court cases can be searched and read. This ruling, if there is one, would have a trail because it was upheld in a court of appeals.

http://caselaw.findlaw.com/court/us-2nd-circuit

http://www.ca2.uscourts.gov/judgesmain.htm

As the 2nd Circuit covers New York, Connecticut and Vermont, it's probably not considered a conservative court and probably had a very specific and detailed reason for upholding the ruling. Whatever it was.

 

[LettersFromTatyana]

This appears to be a summary of the case, John Wiley & Sons Inc v. Supap Kirtsaeng:

http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/891663-264/court_rules_first_sale_doctrine.html.csp

Searching for the case turns up quite a bit... but I'm useless when it comes to legal matters, so I'll leave it to those of you with talent in that area.

 

[Tio_Narratore]

This appears to be a summary of the case, John Wiley & Sons Inc v. Supap Kirtsaeng:

http://www.libraryjournal.com/lj/home/891663-264/court_rules_first_sale_doctrine.html.csp

Searching for the case turns up quite a bit... but I'm useless when it comes to legal matters, so I'll leave it to those of you with talent in that area.

An interesting case, since it involves selling "legal" rather than pirated copies of the book. The court seems to be trying to find a way to protect a publisher from their own books, published and printed abroad for other markets. The books are produced more cheaply there, and thus can easily undersell those printed in the U.S.

More interestingly, the ruling would appear to preclude publishers having their books printed cheaply overseas for better profits at home. The decision could easily prove to be two-pronged for U.S. publishers.

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Well, we can at least answer Ogg's question. This ruling does not apply to antique books (since their copyright has run out) or books never printed in the U.S. What else it actually pertains to will be up to SCOTUS.

 

[Stella_Omega]

It also sets an interesting precedent for other goods that used to be made in the USA. If booksellers can prohibit the sale of foreign, but legally-printed books here, could someone like American Apparel stop foreign-made clothing from being sold here?

 

[Tio_Narratore]

The ruling would only open that possibility if the clothing were copyrighted or patented. By the way, how much clothing is made in the U.S. nowdays?

 

[voluptuary_manque]

Rather more than most people seem to believe. There are several mens suit companies that insist on having their products made in the US, a couple of high end shoe factories. Like the very best of everything else, I guess, you can get Made in USA clothing if you're willing to pay for it. It's all a choice, yanno? Are you a Nordstrom's shopper or a Wal-Mart?

 

[driphoney]

It also sets an interesting precedent for other goods that used to be made in the USA. If booksellers can prohibit the sale of foreign, but legally-printed books here, could someone like American Apparel stop foreign-made clothing from being sold here?

Well, if you equate that identical books identically (or the content anyway) reproduced for outside markets under sanctioned international copyright (or not) but brought into US to compete against those same books already produced legally here to that of knock-off bootleg clothing produced outside the US and brought in to compete against US made, or otherwise legally produced clothing under license and sold here, I wouldn't think so.

But what do I know? I'm just an unemployed student.

(It's just fun pondering and joining the conversation.)

 

[Handley_Page]

It also sets an interesting precedent for other goods that used to be made in the USA. If booksellers can prohibit the sale of foreign, but legally-printed books here, could someone like American Apparel stop foreign-made clothing from being sold here?

So no more Saville Row suits from London, then ?
No more shirts from Turnbull & Asser, ?
No more shoes from Loake ?

Then we get onto cars and have a real ball.
Pretty soon thereafter, the rest of the world is up in arms about Trade Barriers and USA goods banned from RoW. If this included military hardware, the Federal Budget would be shot clear through.

 

[oggbashan]

It also sets an interesting precedent for other goods that used to be made in the USA. If booksellers can prohibit the sale of foreign, but legally-printed books here, could someone like American Apparel stop foreign-made clothing from being sold here?

If other countries took the same actions then the US would be in even more financial difficulty. It was called protectionism when countries raised trade barriers against other countries' products.

In the 1930s UK people couldn't buy Detroit's cars without paying a punitive tax levy. They could buy exactly the same car (except for the badges) made in Canada because Canada came within the 'Empire' as defined for tax purposes. Ford England used to produce cars in Manchester with some components made in Southern Ireland. After Eire became independent, Ford had to duplicate their component factory in England to avoid the punitive taxation.

Now? Fords sold in England can be made in Germany or in Spain and that causes no problem because those countries are within the European Union.

The world's economy depends on trade. If one country insists on only selling products produced in that country, and others reciprocate, how are raw materials to be paid for?

What is an American product? Is it a Japanese car made in the US? Or a car made in Japan and shipped to the US in parts and assembled in the US? Or a Japanese car shipped to the US whole except for the final dealer's check-over?

Is an American movie actually American if it is made by a US-based company but filmed in New Zealand with computer graphics produced in the UK? Or do you go to the Hollywood back lot to produce a film set in a rain forest?

How many 'American' products are actually made by American companies in other countries that have cheaper labour costs?

 

[driphoney]

How many 'American' products are actually made by American companies in other countries that have cheaper labour costs?

Not many. That's why we're considered a service economy now.

 

[Handley_Page]

It raises a few funnies, as well.
I was told a few years ago of a local authority in New York state who decided not to buy a Komatsu combine harvester "because it is foreign". So they bought a John Deere ('cos it's american).
Komatsu things were, apparently, made in the state.
John Deer were made abroad and imported.

 

[oggbashan]

The ruling is mentioned in the Huffington Post.

Some of the comments are worth reading.

 

[Svenskaflicka]

It also sets an interesting precedent for other goods that used to be made in the USA. If booksellers can prohibit the sale of foreign, but legally-printed books here, could someone like American Apparel stop foreign-made clothing from being sold here?

Wouldn't that put Wal Mart out of buisness?