Back to Basics: Poetry? Isn't that the stuff whatshisface wrote?

[KillerMuffin]

I'd normally do this bit on the Author's Hangout Board, but I think all the poets congregate here.

*ahem*

Basics are the best neh? So what can you, purveyors of poeticness, teach us? A lot more than you think, no doubt! Hop on in. Answer a question. Answer all of them. Answer only ones that are prime numbers. Do a little algebra. Just write about one of your favorite things. Writing.

First and foremost, what's a poem? Stories are easy, even bad ones. But sometimes you can't really tell what a poem is. Is Dr. Suess a poem? It rhymes. Some chick wrote a grocery list and called it a poem, is it? Fill us in here!

1) What, actually, makes a poem a poem?
2) Why do people read poems?
3) Why do people write poems?
4) What are the basic kinds of poems?
5) Do I need to know any rules to write poetry?
6) What's the difference between freeverse and structured poetry?
7) What is the basic poet "jargon" that I need to know?
8) How can I tell if the poem I'm reading is any good?
9) How do I know when I've got an actual poem and not just a mess of words?
10) There seems like an awful lot of things to know just to throw a few words together. What is the best method to learn about poetry?

 

[daughter]

Getting started

KM--

I'll answer these questions a few at a time.

1)What, actually, makes a poem a poem?

Some would say the most distinguishing feature between prose and poetry is meter and rhyme. Basically, meter is grouped syllables combined to create a rhythm.


3) Why do people write poems?

We all have a need to express ourselves some use music, or paint others use a diary or journal some of us write poetry.

4) What are the basic kinds of poems?

There are quite a few, some popular ones:

Villanelle: A poem in a fixed form, consisting of five three-line stanzas followed by a quatrain and having only two rhymes. In the stanzas following the first, the first and third lines of the first stanza are repeated alternately as refrains. They are the final two lines of the concluding quatrain.


Free Verse: A fluid form which conforms to no set rules of traditional versification. The free in free verse refers to the freedom from fixed patterns of meter and rhyme, but writers of free verse employ familiar poetic devices such as assonance, alliteration, imagery, caesura, figures of speech etc., and their rhythmic effects are dependent on the syllabic cadences emerging from the context . The term is often used in its French language form, vers libre. Walt Whitman's "By the Bivouac's Fitful Flame" is an example of a poem written in free verse.

Sidelight: Although as ancient as Anglo-Saxon verse, free verse was first employed "officially" by French poets of the Symbolistic movement and became the prevailing poetic form at the climax of Romanticism. In the 20th century it was the chosen medium of the Imagists and was widely adopted by American and English poets.


Haiku: A Japanese form of poetry, also known as hokku. It consists of three unrhymed lines of five, seven and five syllables. The elusive flavor of the form, however, lies more in its touch and tone than in its syllabic structure. Deeply imbedded in Japanese culture and strongly influenced by Zen Buddhism, haiku are very brief descriptions of nature that convey some implicit insight or essence of a moment. Traditionally, they contain either a direct or oblique reference to a season:



Sonnets: A fixed form consisting of fourteen lines of five-foot iambic verse. In the English or Shakespearean sonnet, the lines are grouped in three quatrains (with six alternating rhymes) followed by a detached rhymed couplet which is usually epigrammatic. In the original Italian form, such as Longfellow's " Divina Commedia," the fourteen lines are divided into an octave of two rhyme-sounds arranged abba abba and a sestet of two additional rhyme sounds which may be variously arranged. This latter form tends to divide the thought into two opposing or complementary phases of the same idea.

There are plenty of sites that provide definitions, biographies, and examples related to poetry. I often use about.poetry.com. The above examples are found there.

Back with more later.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Mickie]

Aw Hell. And I was worried more about the usage of adverbs in prose. No wonder I snoozed in poetry class. Those definitions were way over my head. Was it all in English?

What you have here is an entire novice who would run away at the sight of the WORD 'Haiku', let alone try to construct one. Is there a simpler way to explain? In other words, explain your explanations for those of us who are scratching our heads.

Stanzas? Quatrain? Are we getting into Nostradamas here?

But, seriously, folks, I'm not a complete literary dunce, and I'm more impressed that daughter understands her own explanation than I am at most poetry I manage to choke down.

Okay. I'm also not averse to learning new things. I'll pick one and attempt to compose something according to the rules.

(so pat me on the head now and tell me to be good. )

Mickie

 

[daughter]

examples

Mickie--

I only pulled the technical definitions. Haiku isn't intimidating at all. Even if we screw them up, we can pull it off.

In the simplest explanation, haiku is 3 lines long with a syllabic pattern of 5/7/5.

Sonia Sanchez is a favorite poet of mine. She writes quite a bit of haiku and tanka( two additional lines). Here's an erotic haiku from the poet:

i have caught fire from
your mouth now you want me to
swallow the ocean.


I'll post other examples later.

Peace,

daughter

 

[Mickie]

Don't take me completely seriously, Daughter. Grain of salt here. Haiku

Email is the curse
I wait on the silly thing
It laughs at me - ha!


I know a little -- just enough to get into trouble.

Mickie

 

[REDWAVE]

Good questions!

Cool questions, Killer Diller Muffinpuss. You know I really love you, don't you?


Anyhoodle, I too will take on your questions one by one.

(1) What, actually, makes a poem a poem?

Fuck if I know. At one time, it was possible to give a fairly coherent answer to that question. Poetry was distinguished from prose by having, if not rhyme, at least some kind of formal meter. But with the prevalence of free verse in the twentieth century, there really is no clear-cut way to distinguish the one from the other. Basicly, a poem is just prose arranged on the page a funny way. To the extent the distinction is even meaningful any more, I'd say it comes down to this: poetry involves a more intense use of language, with more concentrated metaphor and imagery, than prose. By that definition, however, there are passages of prose that are actually quite poetic, and there are things called "poems" that are really quite prosaic.


(2) Why do people read poems?

Fuck if I know. Why do people do anything? Why do we exist in the first place? Why is it that something exists rather than nothing? Isn't it true that existence is inherently paradoxical and mysterious? Why am I such an asshole?


(3) Why do people write poems?

Well, I don't know why "people" write poems, but at least I have some ideas about why I write poems. I write poems mainly to express my utter dismay, disgust and despair over life in general, and this sick, rotten society in which I live in particular. Lately, I have been writing poems mostly for the purpose of speaking out against the war. I've written many poems late at night, when I was trying to sleep. I didn't even want to write a poem, but instead of falling asleep, my mind would be whirling and the words of a poem would start to come to me, and I would get up-- grumbling over doing so because all I really wanted to do was go to sleep-- in the middle of the night to write a poem. The creative process is hell, I tell ya.


Well, that's all I can handle for now. Man, you ask some tough questions there, Killer M. I'll do some more later.

 

[Guest]

1) What, actually, makes a poem a poem?
The intense linguistic crystalization of a non-narrative singular moment, experience, or emotion, expressed with the aid of meter/rhythm, (sometimes) rhyme, alliteration, and a long list of other "standard poetic devices" like personification, metaphor, and onomatopoeia

2) Why do people read poems?
I assume you mean rather than prose? For the intensity of emotion, imagery, and imagination, combined with an admiration of/appreciation for the difficulties of working within its constraints.

3) Why do people write poems?
Why do people write at all?
To answer more specifically: This depends what you mean by poetry and who you ask. Some write "poems" because they're relatively short, and thus sometimes incorrectly perceived as easy, as something one can dash off at a moment's notice without significant thought or editing. Some write in imitation of a particular style of poetry, like "free verse" for the same reason. Others prefer the evocative image or moment to the foreclosed possibilities of a contained narrative. I'm sure there are many more reasons, but I'm too lazy to try to figure out what they are.

4) What are the basic kinds of poems?
What defines "basic kinds?" Are Petrarchan sonnets a different "kind" of poem than Elizabethan sonents? Are sestinas more or less "basic" than free verse? This is a potentially exhausting question.

5) Do I need to know any rules to write poetry?
No, but you need to read, comprehend, and feel poetry, and understand something of its history, conventions, rhetorical maneuvers and organizing rules in order to do it well.

6) What's the difference between freeverse and structured poetry?
Free verse is structured poetry. The fact that it does not follow a predictable/predetermined metric foot, line, rhyme, or stanzaic pattern does not mean that it follows no structure. Read Ginzburg, cummings, Adrienne Rich, or any number of the excellent famous writers of free verse--there's clear structure in all of it.

7) What is the basic poet "jargon" that I need to know?
This would take too long to answer, and I'm not that ambitious. I suggest The Politics of Poetics and The Riverside Handbook of Basic English as sources of futher info. Politics is more about poetic forms and their historical periods of relative popularity, the Riverside is an excellent resource for the really basic stuff like the devices (metaphor et al).

8) How can I tell if the poem I'm reading is any good?
Okay, taste is subjective, yada yada yada. Qualifications aside, as a start, try asking yourself these questions:
*Could I write this on my first try?
*Does it capture something familiar in a way I haven't thought of, evoke a strong emotional and intellectual response, and/or convey the essence of a moment/thought/idea/etc?
*Does it do all of the above in a rhythmically consistent way that makes creative/unusual/innovative use of language and/or form?

9) How do I know when I've got an actual poem and not just a mess of words?
If you're a poet, you'll probably never be truly satisfied with your own production, unless you're arrogant, vain, or shallow. Poetry is all about trying to capture the ineffable and inarticulable but deeply experienced particulars of living. It's a really tough thing to create, FAR tougher than prose in many ways. So, most likely you'll tinker with it until it has something relatively original to say, and says it in a way you're not embarrased to put your name on for public consumption.

10) There seems like an awful lot of things to know just to throw a few words together. What is the best method to learn about poetry?
*Read poetry. Every day.
*Read about poetry, poetic history, poets, and critique. Often.
*Write. And read your own writing even more critically than you read others'. Try using your study of poetic criticism to analyze, deconstruct, and/or spot the flaws in your own poems.
*And then practice some more.
*Put it out there to be read by others. See what others have to say. Try to find out if readers receive the same message/image/etc. that you were trying to convey.
*Seek critique from readers, editors, teachers, anyone who'll take the time to give you input. When you receive critique, look for the ways it might improve your next efforts, rather than trying to defend your poor little poem from attack or seek validation for your efforts.

Of course, that's just my opinion.
And we all know I'm a lousy poet, and full to the brim with opinionated bullshit.

 

[RisiaSkye]

Damn, just damn.

I take all that time and effort, and then forget to log in--what a maroon!

 

[REDWAVE]

Wow!

I'm impressed, Risia-- you answered all ten at one go. What great stamina you have.

 

[WriterDom]

If I read a book and it makes my whole body so cold a fire can never warm me, I know that is poetry. If I feel physically as if the top of my head were taken off, I know that is poetry. These are the only ways I know it. Is there any other way? -Emily Dickinson.

Poetry is not a turning loose of emotion, but an escape from emotion; it is not the expression of personality but an escape from personality. But, of course, only those who have personality and emotions know what it means to want to escape from these things." -T.S. Eliot

 

[daughter]

Form Examples: The Sonnet

KM--

Our own HomerPindar gives us good examples of traditional forms to render erotic poetry. Here's a sample by the talented poet:

Sonnet
by HomerPindar ©

The hint of your smile seems to challenge me
to step into your room with my own smile
to close the space between us so that we
may stand together, silent all the while
you press my hand to your breast to feel your
nipple harden against my palm. Gently
at first I squeeze you, but we both want more.
Lips together while undressing quickly.

We melt to the floor in a tight embrace
Only I feel your mouth on me as I
spread apart your legs to bury my face.
With hungry passion together we lie.

The first such answer to your challenging
smile – such satisfaction I want to bring


Nice take. Who says forms have to be boring and restricting?

Peace,

daughter

 

[daughter]

Villanelle, anyone?

HomerPindar seems to enjoy writing forms such as the sonnet and villanelle. With a given structure, the poet can focus on imagery, word choice, and other nuances that sometimes intimidate the neophyte. Forms help the student to develop his abilities. Later, with free verse, the poet has a wellspring of devices and patterns to alter, incorporate, and emulate in his work.

Here's Homer's take on the villanelle:


Villanelle
by HomerPindar ©

I want to join with you
To caress your luscious skin all night
To feel your warmth until the morning dew.

Undressing you slowly to enjoy the view
Caressing, massaging, hands follow sight
I want to join with you

Kissing each inch of skin as it's revealed anew
feeling you press against me, standing in the moonlight
To feel your warmth until morning dew.

To melt together, our desires imbue
our bodies together throughout the night
I want to join with you.

Kissing down your body to take you
with my slow, measured kisses, to a new height.
To feel your warmth until morning dew.

Feeling our joined heat surround us in a golden hue
To wrap ourselves together with passions might
I want to join with you
To feel your warmth until morning dew.