Babies having babies

[Shelby]

The 14 year old daughter of my friend is pregnant. She wants to keep the baby, parents want her to either have an abortion, or put it up for adoption.

In Canada, she will be entitled to Mother's Allowance, which will allow her to have her an apartment & spending money....courtesy of us tax payers. GRRRR. A 14 year old!!!! (She'll have to have a roommate over 18)

Do you feel the parents have a right to force a decision upon her?

 

[Juliangel]

That is a tough call. Where were the parents with the advice on birth control and such, assuming she wasn't raped.

My sons are 10 and 8 and I have already started basic talks with them about respecting girls and their own bodies.

I just think 14 is too young to be a mother. She isn't old enough to know what she wants to do with her own life yet let alone bring another life in to the world to raise.

Everyone has their own view on abortion, there are times when it is the thing to do then there are other times.

I also know there are so many couples out there that would do anything for a baby that would happily raise it for her.

That is such a sad situation for anyone to have to be in. While her parents want to do what they feel is best they also need to consider what any of the choices are going to do to her mentally and the fact that it is not their decision to make.

She didn't get that way on her own and he should help make the choice. It is her body and their baby, both sets of parents just need to support them now.

 

[Weird Harold]

The 14 year old daughter of my friend is pregnant. She wants to keep the baby, parents want her to either have an abortion, or put it up for adoption.
...
Do you feel the parents have a right to force a decision upon her?

No I don't think her parents have a right to force adecision on her.

There isn't really enough information here for an informed opinion. Still, it sounds like the girl is taking more responsibility for her actions than her parents are.

Do you know whether the pregnancy is unplanned or not? Given your comments on the Mother's Allowance, might this be an ill-conceived plan to get out of her parents clutches?

 

[wolfy]

I don't think the parents have the right to force her to do anything about her child. I would hope they would continue to support her and the child and help her continue her life as best as possible. If the father is known and still around then hopefully his parents will help to. It is her child tho and her responsibility and even if her family won't help her she needs to do whats best for her child. I actually think putting the child up for adoption may be the best thing she can do even tho It might be really hard for her. That is only if her family and the fathers family isn't going to support them. She is way to young to be a mother and the baby deserves to have a loving complete family. I don't personally believe in abortion myself but since I can't become pregnant that will never mater since I do belive that it is a personal choice of the person who is pregnant and the partner that got her pregnant. The doctor of course should be alowed to refuse to perform an abortion tho. More information would be nice. Is the father known and still around? Will the parents still support her if she keeps the child? I'm not talking about finacial support i'm talking about emotional support and advice etc. I think she should think of the baby first even if it's really hard and try and do what she thinks will be best for it. Growing up with a single parent can be really hard for a child. Also I've seen before that alot of times babies that have babies continue the trend and their children often have babies really young to. My friend davids grandmother was born when her mother was 14...she had davids mother at 14 and she had billy davids sister at around that age. Billy is 17 and has had 2 kids now. Pretty scarry to be a great great-grandmother when your under 60 heh.

 

[Mustang Sally]

No 14 year old could possibly be emotionally mature enough to handle all the demands of an infant by herself. My God, does she realize how much a baby will change her life??

Besides that, mother's allowance might make for a living, but just barely. The child would surely be better off with a couple wishing to adopt.

No, her parents can't make the decision for her and they shouldn't try. That would only alienate her at a time when she needs them the most. They should guide her gently but firmly towards some kind of counselling or family planning clinic where somebody could help her make a more informed decision.

 

[Guest]

Granted 14 is awfully young to be a mother, I don't feel her parents should should force a decision upon her. If she chose to raise and keep the baby (which I think shows a sign of maturity and taking responsibility for thinking she was "old enough" to have sex) then why couldn't she live at her parents' house instead of living off of the tax payers? Bottom line, she's still a minor under her parents care.

~Tiggs~
http://www.freebackgrounds.com/kit12.gif

 

[Shelby]

This girl had been trouble for a couple of years. She's the kind of girl that an adult wants to hug & let her know that one day she will be a swan.

Unfortunately, a few months before she became pregnant, she asked her parents if she could move in with her boyfriend (19 or 20, rape in any lawbook). Parents were blindsided. As we live in the country, when kids get off the bus, they're home for the night, unless parents drive them somewhere. They didn't know boyfriend existed.

KABANG..she's pregnant, except that 10,9 & 8 months before babe arrived, boyfriend darling was not in the country. (Does sperm fly? Well yah, sometimes, but...) Her answer was, now I can get mother's allowance & live with him. Except it's not his, she won't tell, & boyfriend darling has his own apartment...paid for!

What the fuck is a parent to do. And yeah, they support her, but 6 months later they still cannot believe this.

 

[AJPLAY]

What a mess

I don't know if this will help, but I feel for your friend. My 16 year old did the same thing and it was componded with being interracial. The law allows a child to not have parents consent for any of the medical care required no matter what why the child decides to go, abortion, adoption, or to keep and have the child. They however can not give your child an asprin with out covering thier ass with notes and written statements of permission from the parents; strange to me. My parents forced my sister to abort an early pergnacy when she was 14 and my sister never forgave them. My parents feel they did the right thing and so do I however the guilt that is laid on they as they get older is overwhelming at times. I tried to force my daughter to abort and even thought about doing things worse. I felt I was looking out for her and thought I was doing what was right. First I think that your friend must realise that ther was nothing they could do and even if there was it's too late for that now. By the time a child is 14 they been instilled with about as much as your going to give them as a parent the rest is maturing and developing what they've learned. If your friend focuses on the blame and why or what went wrong they'll go out of their mind. We all make mistakes and some times we get lucky and they're no big deal sometimes people die for a stupid mistake and the rest fall some where in-between. I guess I'm rambling so I'll close by saying that I'm glad that my daughter did the right thing for her. I respect the way she stood up to me even if it was defience, which I'm sure we've all defied or parents at one time. She loves her child and does the best she can. Society excepts it better than I do and she receieves more help then I thought was available, which tells me that it happens every day; your right not to me though. I guess I'll say what so many have told me if you love your child would you help her any way you could. I felt life is hard, who needs to start this way. But if it's not one thing it will be something else. I would suggest to be there for her and help her in her decision but don't force her into any thing. I hope this helps. Good luck and I feel for you and your freind.

 

[Jester]

They aren't the only ones who can't believe it.

I don't think that they should have the right to force a choice on her. Advice, opions, caring are all fully within their rights, though. If they had forced, it most would only have created alienation and resentment. They could have lost contact with her permanaently. On the other hand, you have the current situation that you described. It's never simple.

I think that, in situations like this, you have to give a person all the advice and caring that you can and then hope that they make a decision that is the best all around. The thing is, the decision isn't theirs. Even if you made it for someone with their best interests at heart. Life is a messy thing.

 

[Mustang Sally]

I certainly doesn't sound like she's keeping the baby to be mature and take responsibility. From what Shelby said, it sounds like she's using it as a means to an end - living with the boyfriend. All the wrong reasons! I sincerely doubt she realizes what she's getting into.

But if she's six months pregnant already, I guess the course is set. She's gonna have that baby. Maybe her parents should suggest she stay at home with baby instead of moving in with the boyfriend? (what does he think of all this anyways??)

If she does move in with the boyfriend and things don't work out, would the parents be willing to take her back into their home and help with the baby? Hope so!

 

[Rolly]

I think the boyfriend will be gone when needed, then what?

She has a difficult time ahead of her. She has discarded her childhood. I do not think anyone has the right to make her decision regarding the baby. But, possibly should not the parents have had a little more input into her life before she became pregnant? Possibly if they had, she would not be pregnant now. Also if not the parents, then how about a mentor? Someone older she could have talked with and discussed sexuality with. A nurse or an aunt for example.



Whoever gossips to you will gossip about you. …. Old Spanish proverb

 

[Angel]

No 14 year old could possibly be emotionally mature enough to handle all the demands of an infant by herself. My God, does she realize how much a baby will change her life??

Besides that, mother's allowance might make for a living, but just barely. The child would surely be better off with a couple wishing to adopt.

No, her parents can't make the decision for her and they shouldn't try. That would only alienate her at a time when she needs them the most. They should guide her gently but firmly towards some kind of counselling or family planning clinic where somebody could help her make a more informed decision.

Of course no 14 year old is emotionally ready for that. But on the other hand aborting or putting up for adoption a baby is just as, if not more emotionally demanding. Not only would she have to deal with getting pregnant, but the possibility of guilt and/or other emotional problems if FORCED against her will to give her baby up. I got pregnant at 16. I wasn't planning it or ready for it, and I got that way because I was irresponsible. However I felt that I owed it to that Child to grow up, and LEARN how to be a mother. I owed it to him to stay in school so I could someday have a career and support him. I owed it to him to better myself even though I was 16 so that he could have a good life, but unfortunately he died and I had to give birth to him that way. I also had to have a D&C and for me it was very traumatic. It took me YEARS to get over the experience and to this day I wish I'd had my son. The deed is done, and if this girl is ready and willing to do what is right for her child, even at the age of 14, I feel her parents have no right to demand abortion or adoption. I can honestly say that after my own experience that I would fully support my daughter if this happened to her, and I would help her every step of the way. Hopefully when I DO have kids someday and I teach them about these things they will take what I taught and NOT get into a situation like this, but I would NEVER force them to do something this big, not ever. I couldn't imagine going through what I went through BY CHOICE.

 

[Sammyjo]

Yikes!! My uncle and his girlfriend tried to pull a fast one on their parents (keep in mind this was almost 30 years ago)

They came to both sets of parents wanting to get married. They were desperate to spend the rest of their lives together. He had one year of school left, she had two. Both sets of parents say "Hell no". Brilliant idea!!! Let's get pregnant, they can't say no then. Wrong again! Both sets still said no. So, here they are, stuck raising a kid that they really didn't want, only because they couldn't get married a little sooner than they wanted to.

Of course, they are married now...I think the ink was barely dry on their diplomas when they got married...

I don't know this girl or her parents. It does seem a bit odd...and somewhat similar to the story above. Her parents should not force her into a decision...but they do have options. As she is still a minor, they can decide to "force" her to live with them. They can also make damn sure that she is the one taking care of that child. Quite obviously, they will have to help her a bit. But paternity should be established, and the man should also help monetarily, as well as with medical insurance. She should also finish her schooling in some fashion, whether it is night classes or your equivilent of the GED. Then it's on to college, because we all know how hard it is to provide for a child on $5.50/hr. Not to mention the fact that it will be 4 years until she is an "adult"...that guy might not stick around that long. She has a long road ahead of her...I just hope she doesn't screw up her unborn child's life because she "wants to have her baby".

These stories make me sad. My sister said that last year there were two 15 year olds, best friends, both pregnant...walking around the school in their PJ's because they didn't have any clothes that fit...and threatening to beat people up...nice role models.

*sigh*

I'm running low on fuel, and there is still so much more to say...gotta get my rest though.

 

[Jade]

No, I definetely don't think the parents should be forcing a decision upon her about whether or not she should be "keeping" the baby. Basically, whether someone is pro-choice or pro-life I would imagine they would side with that one.

However, what is with this, let's pay for her to have an apartment thing? Eh? Who comes up with a rule like that?
For goodness sakes, I become angry enough at the American media and how they glorify pregnancy and motherhood (which would normally be fine but.... it is) targeted at TEENS and therefore many of our pregnant teens here are (like your friend's kid) pregnant by will. (EG: "It is a Hollywood BABY BOOM!"... and other assorted covers of People Mag. It in my opinion is a hidden attempt by some secret government agency to get Americans to procreate more in general b/c our population percentage in comparison with other countries is rapidly declining... so they send us subliminal messages like in that movie "They Live" tellings us BREED... BREED!! .. LMAO... anyway...)

Fortunately our rate is declining, and I hope that it continues to do so. I could honestly go on and on about this decision b/c of some of the courses I have taken relating to it hehe, but for now I just want to emphasize that we should not REWARD people for making UN-intelligent decisions!!! And yet in every single country, ALL of the time... that appears to be the situation doesn't it? I am quite certain that right now I can state with full confidence that no matter who we are or where we are from, we shouldn't have to think too hard to think of an example for our own respective county!

A teen girl... a child essentially in mostly every way, DECIDES she wants a baby, she then thinks, HEY, I can be on my own and get hand outs AND be a mommy and have my own baby to love and care for! That sounds like a great plan!
And... that's what she does. Does that make her stupid? Not nec... did she fall into a pre-set trap?... It almost seems like that doesn't it.

[Edited by Jade on 10-28-2000 at 08:26 AM]

 

[Samuari]

I've raised four girls, the youngest is now fourteen, with the others in college. None of them had this problem, nor do I expect them to. They were raised in an open atmosphere that encouraged questions, and taught them to think things through to logical conclusions.

I knew that I didn't have to worry about the youngest when she was talking about one of her friends becoming pregnant "Yech, it would be like being grounded for eighteen years!" Thank GOD she has her mother's brains and good looks.

 

[teresafannin]

My sister worked for the WIC program for years. The statistics of neglect/abuse in cases like this are horrific. A 14 year old girl is in no way ready to be a mother, too many adult women aren't ready to be mothers. In the majority of cases, the boyfriend will be long gone, these little girls have no concept of how hard it is to take care of a baby as part of a couple, let alone by themselves. I think the systems of welfare & mother's allowances were began with good intentions, but I also think they encourage this sort of thing. I wish this young lady well, she will need all the support from family & friends that you have to give.

Three cheers for Samurai!! I also raised my son to ask questions & I have him straight answers. I never worried about him becoming a father at a young age. He wanted to know that he could give his family a good life & planned on school & establishing his career first. You & your wife should be congratulated for being honest with your daughters.

 

[Latina]

I adopted my son when he was 6 months old. His birth mother was 14, birth father was 19 an a convicted drug dealer. This boy was conceived by date rape of the 14-year-old. I KNOW that I have given him a far better life these past 13 years than he could have had with his birth parents.

When he was 3, I found out he has two separate learning disabilities. So raising him has been a real challenge. Every year, the public schools have become harder for him, so this year we started him in a school that specialized in learning-disabled chldren, and after just three months, his math score went up from C- last year to A- this year, and English from an F to a C. And this school's academic standards are HIGHER than public schools. But the classes are small, about 6 kids each, lots of individual attention and lots of HANDS-ON learning--instead of memorizing, they go out and see science and math at work out in nature! It seems to work, so we don't mind spending the money for him to attend, when NOT attending could mean his failing in life. But if that 14-year-old's child has special needs like this type of school, needs that are VERY expensive, how will she manage?

Losing my first husband when our son was 6 was hard on both of us, but my second husband has fully accepted him as OUR son, he never says STEP son. We both love our son very much, despite the MANY difficulties we have had with him, there have been a few truly great moments too, and we would not have missed those for anything. Like the local city-wide "Olympics" when he took first-place ribbons city-wide in TWO athletic events. When he raised over twice as much for a charity event as any other participating child--everyone pledged so much a mile to their sponsoring kid in a bicycle race, our son completed 53 miles, next nearest boy only did 20 miles. When he told us recently that despite his rants against us, he knows we love him, and he loves us back. We have never regretted adopting him.

Anyway, my point is, that all parties have to consider what is best for the CHILD! A penniless 14-year-old mom does NOT sound like the child's best interest. An adoptive couple can give a child a great life and LOTS of love, I know we have tried to and I believe we have succeeded and are succeeding.

-- Latina




[Edited by Latina on 10-30-2000 at 09:53 AM]

 

[Samuari]

my hats off to ya

Latina that is some of the best heart meds that I 'm goin to find. Congrats on a job well done!

 

[Latina]

Thanks, Samuari

Just got a disturbing phone call from our 13-year-old son's school today. They went on an out-of-state weekend outing, all the kids had a LOT of fun, including our son. But our son got hooked on cigarettes a year ago--they are plentiful in the public schools where he was going last year. We have cut-off his supply of cigarette money, and his school is so remote that it very hard for him to get cigarettes. But that nicotine addiction is too strong. On the way back to the school, he got caught trying to steal a pack of cigarettes from a store where they made a restroom stop. He has been punished for the attempted shoplifting, by having to pull weeds on the school grounds. And he still did not get the cigarettes he wants. So I guess in some ways it was a small victory.

What disturbs me is, the school has a snowboarding team, he REALLY wants to join the team, but after this incident, he will have to wait an additional two weeks to be eligible, beyond the set waiting period. Intellectually, he knew all of this before he tried to steal the cigarettes, but emotionally, the craving for cigarettes was MORE important to him at that moment than his desire to be on the school snowboarding team. Because his brain has some misfunctions, controlling implses has always been hard for him.

And I honestly don't know how to FIX that! We are working with the school on this issue, we are trying to get him to see that giving in to impulses only hurts himself, but until he can make the sports team MORE important to him than cigarettes, until HE wants to change, I fear we are fighting a losing battle. Not giving up, just frustrated at the temporary setback. As a loving parent, this incident is SO frustrating. I know how much he wants to be on the snowboarding team, he talks about it a lot, and I want him to succeed. Seeing him do something to sabotage his own goals is anguishing. I know we brought him up better than this, and his learning disabilities DON'T mean that he can't learn to control his impulses. I am trying not to blame myself, blaming doesn't solve the problem, and I'm trying to view this as only a TEMPORARY setback in getting him able to deal with the world.

The school and my husband and I are doing all we can, and with time, love, and patience, I know we can succeed. But it is a tough road, and one no 14-year-old parent could travel.

Which gets me back to this thread's topic, I know he would not be getting this love and support and help with his birth parents, an underage mother and the convicted drug dealer who raped her. So my advice to the 14-year-old girl, the subject of this thread, still stands: consider the CHILD's best interest, and put him/her up for adoption. A 14-year-old parent would NEVER have the emotional or financial stability, and the patience, to be able to help her child in a situation like the one I describe, that we are now facing. Someone would LOVE to adopt her child and love him/her.

-- Latina

 

[Shelby]

Update...

The father threw her out on the weekend. She's in an apartment with about 6 other kids & boyfriend darling, 1/2 hr. away from the parents. Mother will support her & baby as much as she can, but as of now, father will not allow her to come home.

I've offered to help in any way I can. The mother, my friend, asked if I could drop off some food whenever I was going by. FOOD! The Baby having the Baby needs food. That's one way to break my heart.

NB/ She will not come & stay with us as we said boyfriend darling wasn't welcome to live here.

Can't say that I know how I would react if it was my daughter.

 

[Naked Hunny]

How can her father throw her out? Arent their laws against that shit? I havent contributed to this thread because as many of you know it is something i know all too much about. My parents kicked me out when I became pregnant with snickerdoodle problem was I was 18 so they could kick me out without getting in any trouble. I recieve no help from the government but it sounds as if I need to move my ass to Canada. I work full time with my fair share of overtime as well and im still in debt hell i charged groceries last week. Its getting harder and harder as snickerdoodle gets older and older.

Latina. I understand how you feel as an adoptive parent but I could never give up my child. Id work my fingers raw before I had to spend on day without her.

 

[Latina]

TO NH:

Yes, believe it's illegal to kick-out child at 14. Brother-in-law legally signed himself out of high-school at age 16, at which point my husband's parents kicked him out, rather than keep him in the house with no school and no job. He got a job, moved BACK in but paying his parents rent. He was legally old enough to decide he was done with school, but they did continue to help him, just on terms that since he said he wanted his independence, he had to REALLY stand on his own two feet or go back to school. He chose to stay out of school, but work and pay his parents rent, and they then continued to support and help him in MANY ways, until age 18. But at 14 I don't think you can get away with not supporting your kids AT ALL.

I didn't give up on son. Quite the opposite. He flunked public school last year, had to make it up in summer school and even then BARELY passed. He would stay out late with friends, and when he WAS home, he was violent (hitting us) and destructive (holes in doors, walls, dents in car where he kicked it, etc.). Went to all kinds of counselors, parenting classes, etc. He has been emotionally difficult and had a tough time in school since kindergarten.

Now he is in a school that specializes in learning-disabled kids, getting the help he needs to succeed in life. It is not a punishment, it is helping him gain the skills he'll need to survive in life. The teachers are wonderful, trained and experienced in dealing with learning-challenged children, and they give him LOTS of help to succeed in school and in life. We visit most weekends (in fact, we probably see him more now than we did when he lived with us and stayed out with friends nights and weekends), and are in constant contact by phone, email, and regular mail with him and his teachers. We send weekly care packages of food. We give the school money to buy him things he needs (like coins to wash his clothes). Yes, it is hard not having him here every day, but the alternative is to let him continue to flunk school, hang around with tough kids, get in trouble, hit us, and destroy our house. Hard as it is, this is the best thing for him, so he can learn to live a normal and productive life, we are already seeing improvements in many areas. He has started learning forest conservation, and environmental responsibility (this school is VERY oriented toward outdoor activities and sports as well as academics), and is doing better in math, English, and Science. He built a locking cabinet in wood shop, to keep his TV and VCR in. Given his severe learning disablities, he would not and could not have done these things at home and in public schools. So as hard as it is to not have him home, we know this is what he needs to succeed. We have met other parents whose children have been in the school 2 or 3 years, and have seen tremendous transfomations in their kids, so this gives us hope and overcomes my motherly impulse to yank him out of the school and bring him home and hug him. This was a tough decision to have to make, and that 14-year-old parent does not have the experience and maturity to make such decisions, being only a child herself. The fact that she let herself get in that situation shows a lack of clear thinking.

Our son is much calmer since entering this special school, he's only been there 3 months and already seeing a little progress, the first few steps on a mile-long journey. Maybe after a full school year we will see much more change. The cigarette shoplifitng incident is hard to take, but he has done worse things in the past and he is progressing, I'm trying to see this as only a temporary setback. He will be with us for a full week a Thanskgiving, and two weeks at Christmas.

That father who kicked-out the 14-year-old needs to guide her, not punish her. The baby with a baby of her own needs counseling and guidance on adopting-out her child, or getting work skills and day-care help if she really intends to support herself and her child. Either way, I wish her luck. Parenting is both the hardest and most rewarding job anybody will ever have to do.

-- Latina

 

[Samuari]

My dear Latina, my heart goes out to you, and your son. It sounds like there may be some chemical imbalence to deal with there. If so, there are pretty standard diagnostic tools to discover the problem and fix it. I hope this is so. Quitting smoking is by far the hardest thing that I've ever done. I still sometimes get the craving, and I quit 12 years ago.


Shelby, that may be for the best, if it gets her attention. Its easy for me to say, its not my kid or my friends kid, but if she starts to see what rough raod it can be she may reconsider.
I spent two years with the YWCA as a parent aide, and part of the job was dealing with a resident masturnity unit as a postive male role modle. The one thing that seemed to be universal was that those girls were going to have thier babies because that way they would have someone who loved them.
Silly isn't it? but true.

 

[Shelby]

Naked Hunny - you should've moved your ass to Canada. Hell, we're in Ontario, in Quebec you get a big cheque for EACH kid you have. Damn near everything is paid for. Want to go back to school? No problem - we'll give you money for a babysitter.

Against the law to throw out Baby having Baby? She's WIN/WIN.Has apartment/no school/boyfriend darling & baby. To boot, so many of her Mothers' friends care...she has a completely stocked nursery, food delivered to her etc...hell, we're showing her she made the right decision. But we cannot do nothing as there is baby to consider and as an adult, I can't not help. But SHE WON. For now. When she's 28 & supposed to be having the time of her life, she'll have a 14 year old, who is probably pregnant.

What father did is wrong, but, he is a critter.

 

[Samuari]

or quiter?

I HATE irresponsibility wherever I find it and there seems to be enoungh here to float the Queen Mary.


[Edited by Samuari on 10-30-2000 at 08:38 PM]