babies for sale
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morninggirl5
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That's just plain wrong. $30,000 to adopt a child that is "perfect," right? There are hundreds of children who desperately need a family, but they had to have the "perfect baby." How selfish can they be?
Savage Kitten
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$30,000 ????
Wow! They got a great deal!! I wouldn't take a million dollars for either of mine!
As many children out there in need of families, it is really really hard to adopt a baby. There are so many valid reasons why a family would want a newborn or infant over an older child, too. Regular ol middle class joe isn't gonna find it too easy to adopt a baby, cut thru the months, even years, of red tape without some expenses. You know what they say, "money talks, bullshit walks".
Wow! They got a great deal!! I wouldn't take a million dollars for either of mine!
As many children out there in need of families, it is really really hard to adopt a baby. There are so many valid reasons why a family would want a newborn or infant over an older child, too. Regular ol middle class joe isn't gonna find it too easy to adopt a baby, cut thru the months, even years, of red tape without some expenses. You know what they say, "money talks, bullshit walks".
MissTaken
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Yes. 30k is absolutely wrong.
However, there are approximately 10,000 children in New York State who are freed for adoption and waiting for families. If a family adopts a child over the age of five, the adoption expenses are paid as well as a subsidy provided until the child is 18. The subsidy includes medical coverage. (The same holds true for a child who is younger and either has siblings or has special needs to varying degrees.)
So, yes, many couples do wait and pay a price for those perfect little babies, but if they have been given enough information and counseling an older child can be equally as fulfilling to parent.
Please, understand that I am not negating anyone's choice to adopt an infant. I am just plugging for those other children, some of whom so badly desire a family.
*stepping down from soap box*
However, there are approximately 10,000 children in New York State who are freed for adoption and waiting for families. If a family adopts a child over the age of five, the adoption expenses are paid as well as a subsidy provided until the child is 18. The subsidy includes medical coverage. (The same holds true for a child who is younger and either has siblings or has special needs to varying degrees.)
So, yes, many couples do wait and pay a price for those perfect little babies, but if they have been given enough information and counseling an older child can be equally as fulfilling to parent.
Please, understand that I am not negating anyone's choice to adopt an infant. I am just plugging for those other children, some of whom so badly desire a family.
*stepping down from soap box*
Oliver Clozoff
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Is 30k the "standard" fee?
If it is then it's not necessarily unreasonable. I have no idea what the bureaucratic costs are for approving parents for adoption so I don't know if $30,000 is unreasonable or not. Surely there costs for the labor of social workers to rigorously screen potential parents and investigate their backgrounds.
Administrative costs notwithstanding, there could be other justifications for a high adoption fee. I imagine that requiring a large amount of money would weed out those people who don't intensely want to become parents as well as those who might not be able to provide for the child financially.
I'm not trying to justify these arguments, just trying to imagine what some of the arguments in favor of a big adoption fee would be. I would also be inclined to say charging different amounts for different babies would be distasteful at the least and probably deeply unethical.
If it is then it's not necessarily unreasonable. I have no idea what the bureaucratic costs are for approving parents for adoption so I don't know if $30,000 is unreasonable or not. Surely there costs for the labor of social workers to rigorously screen potential parents and investigate their backgrounds.
Administrative costs notwithstanding, there could be other justifications for a high adoption fee. I imagine that requiring a large amount of money would weed out those people who don't intensely want to become parents as well as those who might not be able to provide for the child financially.
I'm not trying to justify these arguments, just trying to imagine what some of the arguments in favor of a big adoption fee would be. I would also be inclined to say charging different amounts for different babies would be distasteful at the least and probably deeply unethical.
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Sienna
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There can be no value placed upon a human life...... It is Priceless
Adoption is important for both the child and parent. We are talking humans here not pets.
A child is not a showpiece that is paid for and made to make the parents feel good about. They are an individual, a soul like the rest of us and they need all the love and tender care required to become independent adults.
OOOooops!.....I'll get off my soap box now....
Thanx...
Sie.xxx
Adoption is important for both the child and parent. We are talking humans here not pets.
A child is not a showpiece that is paid for and made to make the parents feel good about. They are an individual, a soul like the rest of us and they need all the love and tender care required to become independent adults.
OOOooops!.....I'll get off my soap box now....
Thanx...
Sie.xxx
SINthysist
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I paid that and more. I spent a lot of time, effort, and love on someone who would not have had anything to look forward to in life. What in the phuck, Hesus, I thought we were on the same page...
Adoption is expensive. Why? Because every government can get a cut!
It is yet another one of thier scams...
[editor's note: drunk and passionate...]
Adoption is expensive. Why? Because every government can get a cut!
It is yet another one of thier scams...
[editor's note: drunk and passionate...]
MissTaken
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Hmmm understandable frustrations, S!
You are right. Many of those babies lack potential for future as well.
18 months ago when I left the field. The average rate for adopting a baby in NYS was 10k and the wait was more than a couple of years.
Foreign adoptions average out at 10-15 k. (Each government has their own price and it could cost significantly more!)
I believe the increased rate for newborns and infants is primarily based upon demand rather than government intervention if it is a domestic adoption. (Not entirely sure.)
Important little tid bit: With foreign adoptions, special needs children cost significantly less. The special need may be no more than a correctable cleft palet or inopportune birthmark.
The laws were changed in 98 to facilitate adoption, but focused on older child adoptions.
Basically, after working with many families waiting for adoption adn many children waiting for families, I would support anyone who felt that the system needs to lighten up! Kids need families asap, and should not be viewed as a commodity.
You are right. Many of those babies lack potential for future as well.
18 months ago when I left the field. The average rate for adopting a baby in NYS was 10k and the wait was more than a couple of years.
Foreign adoptions average out at 10-15 k. (Each government has their own price and it could cost significantly more!)
I believe the increased rate for newborns and infants is primarily based upon demand rather than government intervention if it is a domestic adoption. (Not entirely sure.)
Important little tid bit: With foreign adoptions, special needs children cost significantly less. The special need may be no more than a correctable cleft palet or inopportune birthmark.
The laws were changed in 98 to facilitate adoption, but focused on older child adoptions.
Basically, after working with many families waiting for adoption adn many children waiting for families, I would support anyone who felt that the system needs to lighten up! Kids need families asap, and should not be viewed as a commodity.
BlondGirl
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When I, as a birthparent, was researching my options 8 years ago, I learned that 30,000$ was the average going overall cost for an agency adoption here in Texas. Private adoptions tend to run 1/2 that. (The agencies are all "nonprofit", of course. I found that very suspicious and elected NOT to use one.)
The Gladney center in Dallas promised me job opportunities if I used their services. I was very insulted. I did not want under any circumstances to give my daughter up but due to life's circumstances as well as my own intelligience, knew there was little choice.
Among the costs for the private adoption are:
advertising, medical expenses, the homestudy (averaged 5000$ for that alone--govt scam), transportation, and legal fees.
An interresting fact is that in many states, private adoption is illegal. I am soooo glad to live in Texas. I met my daughter's parents and brother. There are no horrible nasty secrets that someone else thinks we should be. (Good grief. If I can trust someone with my child, I can sure as hell trust them with my name and address.)
And, if you are wondering, yes, I think about my daughter every day. Her pictures decorate my walls. Her name is my favorite password. I still cry for the loss. I love her deeply and my regrets are many.
The Gladney center in Dallas promised me job opportunities if I used their services. I was very insulted. I did not want under any circumstances to give my daughter up but due to life's circumstances as well as my own intelligience, knew there was little choice.
Among the costs for the private adoption are:
advertising, medical expenses, the homestudy (averaged 5000$ for that alone--govt scam), transportation, and legal fees.
An interresting fact is that in many states, private adoption is illegal. I am soooo glad to live in Texas. I met my daughter's parents and brother. There are no horrible nasty secrets that someone else thinks we should be. (Good grief. If I can trust someone with my child, I can sure as hell trust them with my name and address.)
And, if you are wondering, yes, I think about my daughter every day. Her pictures decorate my walls. Her name is my favorite password. I still cry for the loss. I love her deeply and my regrets are many.
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This is shittier than green feces.
How lame are these people? I don't get it, but if I can't have kids, I am sure not going to go out and pay for ones that are all 'ideal' to my 'standards'. I don't even have ideals about the matter, but man, that is retarted. What features, exactly, are they paying for????
How lame are these people? I don't get it, but if I can't have kids, I am sure not going to go out and pay for ones that are all 'ideal' to my 'standards'. I don't even have ideals about the matter, but man, that is retarted. What features, exactly, are they paying for????
I don't agree with adopting from other countries, for the same reasons that are stated here. There are MANY children, younger and older, that SHOULD be adopted HERE first. Hell the Government should make it madatory (MAYBE), that you can't adopt outside of the U.S., with so many available here.
Ah hell, what do we know? We're just the ones who put those assholes in office.
Ah hell, what do we know? We're just the ones who put those assholes in office.
BlondGirl
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Lobito, dear--it is often easier and less pricey to adopt for a foreign country. The domestic adoption process can take 5 years and is less sure--can fall through easier.
As idealistic as adopting an older child sounds, it is not all fun and games and happily-ever-after. Like so many things, it is much easier to be an armchair critic than it is to actually give well thought out statements based on research and experience.
Oh, and what is the money paying for? I stated that above. If the mother has had a hospital stay during the pregnancy, that is covered OUT OF POCKET by the adoptive parents. (Unless, of course, they are agency adoptions--these birth parents tend to be on Medicaid.)
As idealistic as adopting an older child sounds, it is not all fun and games and happily-ever-after. Like so many things, it is much easier to be an armchair critic than it is to actually give well thought out statements based on research and experience.
Oh, and what is the money paying for? I stated that above. If the mother has had a hospital stay during the pregnancy, that is covered OUT OF POCKET by the adoptive parents. (Unless, of course, they are agency adoptions--these birth parents tend to be on Medicaid.)
oh I understand all too well the idea of adopting from out of the country.
There is a BIG thing now about U.S. parents adopting from Guatemala. so I'm VERY familiar with that. That saddens me as much as the kids in the U.S. who can NOT be adopted as easily. Because they are taking away population from "MY" country.
Just because they have money, and it's easier, certainly doens't make it more right.
There is a BIG thing now about U.S. parents adopting from Guatemala. so I'm VERY familiar with that. That saddens me as much as the kids in the U.S. who can NOT be adopted as easily. Because they are taking away population from "MY" country.
Just because they have money, and it's easier, certainly doens't make it more right.
BlondGirl
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Lobito, my dear--the welfare of the child should be the utmost of concern.
I am not sure how moving a child who is "unwanted" from your home country is a bad thing.
Another thing that I had thought about last night was how likely it would be for an Asian couple here to be able to domestically adopt a child of Asian decent. Every Asian child I have seen that has been adopted literally came from Asia--not from birthpatents here in the US.
As the parent of a biracial child, I would not intentionally choose to have another child outside of my race. If God elected to place a child in my heart that was not fish-belly-white, I would not second guess that at all. But to intentionally choose to parent a child who is so obviously of mixed race here in the community I live in is a request for social complications. (Please make note here: It has never been an issue with other white people--there is another racial category, of which neither myself nor my son fall into, that the subculture tends to focus on race FIRST in all situations.)
I am not sure how moving a child who is "unwanted" from your home country is a bad thing.
Another thing that I had thought about last night was how likely it would be for an Asian couple here to be able to domestically adopt a child of Asian decent. Every Asian child I have seen that has been adopted literally came from Asia--not from birthpatents here in the US.
As the parent of a biracial child, I would not intentionally choose to have another child outside of my race. If God elected to place a child in my heart that was not fish-belly-white, I would not second guess that at all. But to intentionally choose to parent a child who is so obviously of mixed race here in the community I live in is a request for social complications. (Please make note here: It has never been an issue with other white people--there is another racial category, of which neither myself nor my son fall into, that the subculture tends to focus on race FIRST in all situations.)
SweetBrat73
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I see nothing wrong with anyone paying $30,000 for a baby they want if that's what they want to do. And why is it selfish for them to pay for a baby if they can't have one of their own??? Would you want someone to adopt a child they really didn't want??? That wouldn't be any better for that child than living in a foster home. At least the child may get love in that foster home than if it was adopted by a family that really didn't want it.
There are many reasons a family doesn't want older childer, or handicap children, or children with brothers or sisters. It's a person's right to be selfish. Doesn't make it right but they are giving a child that needs love and attention and clothes and whatever what they need and what they can. I see nothing wrong with that. And it's not that easy to adopt the kids that are older and handicap either. It's easier than a baby but not by much. I've know a few ppl that have wanted children that "nobody else wants" and they've had to go through hell and then never got the child. It's cheaper to get them...but not much easier.
Now I have a slight problem with ppl adopting from other countries, but that's only because that child misses out on their culture and history. On the other hand that child is loved by it's adoptive parents and that's better than not being loved at all and the child can always study their culture I reckon...
Ok that's enough for me....just my opinion
There are many reasons a family doesn't want older childer, or handicap children, or children with brothers or sisters. It's a person's right to be selfish. Doesn't make it right but they are giving a child that needs love and attention and clothes and whatever what they need and what they can. I see nothing wrong with that. And it's not that easy to adopt the kids that are older and handicap either. It's easier than a baby but not by much. I've know a few ppl that have wanted children that "nobody else wants" and they've had to go through hell and then never got the child. It's cheaper to get them...but not much easier.
Now I have a slight problem with ppl adopting from other countries, but that's only because that child misses out on their culture and history. On the other hand that child is loved by it's adoptive parents and that's better than not being loved at all and the child can always study their culture I reckon...
Ok that's enough for me....just my opinion
MissTaken
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As this thread clearly indicates, adoption is a personal issue as well as quite emotional for all involved. Perhaps, the degree of differences indicated here explain some of the problems with adoption legislation. If we don't have a consensus, how could we expect our legislators to do so?
Sweetbrat: Please understand, I am not begrudging anyone's choices. I was merely pointing out other options and perspectives on adoption. Yes. Some people chose to adopt older siblings vs. babies. There are no saints and sinners. Anyone who adopts gets my two thumbs up as does anyone who choses adoption for their child. All choices are personal and as long as child best interest is the paramount concern, all will be well.
Blondgirl: *hugs* and hat's off to you. I hope that none of my remarks were seen as hurtful. I have worked with adoption at all ends of the spectrum, birth parents, foster parents, kinship adoptive parents and adoptive parents. I respect all. Now, it sounds as though you have handled your daughter's adoption very well and have done all you could to meet what are her best interests. Many people are not so fortunate as to know where their children are, much less meet the adoptive parents. God Bless you and your daughter.
Sweetbrat: Please understand, I am not begrudging anyone's choices. I was merely pointing out other options and perspectives on adoption. Yes. Some people chose to adopt older siblings vs. babies. There are no saints and sinners. Anyone who adopts gets my two thumbs up as does anyone who choses adoption for their child. All choices are personal and as long as child best interest is the paramount concern, all will be well.
Blondgirl: *hugs* and hat's off to you. I hope that none of my remarks were seen as hurtful. I have worked with adoption at all ends of the spectrum, birth parents, foster parents, kinship adoptive parents and adoptive parents. I respect all. Now, it sounds as though you have handled your daughter's adoption very well and have done all you could to meet what are her best interests. Many people are not so fortunate as to know where their children are, much less meet the adoptive parents. God Bless you and your daughter.
SINthysist
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We did not pay 30K for a designer baby. In fact, the Chinese Government matched us based on what, who only knows.
Why did we go international? The US legal system. We did not want the birth parents or grandparents wanting to tear the child from us. We do not want he going in search of her birth parents (we have seen that happen and the damage casued when that child was rejected a second time). In short, we wanted a separation of space, laws, and customs in order that she be ours and ours alone. Call it selfish, but I have seen the US system work against the family in more than one instance.
Why did we go international? The US legal system. We did not want the birth parents or grandparents wanting to tear the child from us. We do not want he going in search of her birth parents (we have seen that happen and the damage casued when that child was rejected a second time). In short, we wanted a separation of space, laws, and customs in order that she be ours and ours alone. Call it selfish, but I have seen the US system work against the family in more than one instance.
BlondGirl
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SINthysist said:
Are you assuming that what you see on Jerry Springer and Sally is the normal occurance? I have known MANY people who are adoption triad members and have never seen any who had any thing other than the child's best interrests at heart. (This includes the intentional deceit I have experienced from my own daughter's parents. I can only hope and pray that their lies were made with the belief that they were doing best for the our child.)
SINthysist said:
The adoption process involves a lot of tears and heartbreak to accompany the joys and rewards. It is the nature of the beast. I will embrace my child's decisions involving me--regardless of what they are. I am not ashamed of her or consider her a dirty-little-secret. She is a human being and a loved one. Both her birthfather and myself still have a horrible void from her loss.
I have never understood why it is okay for a child to grow up and be expected to develop many relationships in life but people like Sin assume that it can only result is something monstrous. It seems to me that we have the right to know each other and answer questions and give reasurances to each other. She certainly deserves the right to speak to me and face me. I think that goes both ways.
One of the most important things I want to convey to my daughter is that she was not disposed of. She was wanted from the start and loved and we did the best we could. Apparently, Sin, that is not something that your attitude can allow.
SweetBrat73
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SIN...Just because you went international doesn't mean she won't go looking for her birthparents...it'll just be way harder... I think all adoptive kids eventually want to know who their birth parents are...just because...and that's not because adoptive parents aren't good to the kids or didn't love them enough...I would want to know...just know what happened...
BlondGirl...I don't think SIN thinks only bad things will happen either...but I agree with her on some points about not wanting the birth parents to change their minds and want their baby back...it does happen...and because the news and such has made it such a big deal because of a few cases it makes things harder on the adoptive parents...I personally wouldn't let the birth parents in on every aspect of my adoptive child's life just because it would be frightening...they could start to think that's such a beautiful child and so smart or whatever and start thinking they want the child back...that would be "my" child now...not theirs...and the courts are begining to let birth parents take their children back more and more often...once the child turned 18 I would help them find the birth parents if that's what they wanted though...you have to understand it's heart breaking on both sides, not just yours and tv has adoptive parents scared...
Brat
BlondGirl...I don't think SIN thinks only bad things will happen either...but I agree with her on some points about not wanting the birth parents to change their minds and want their baby back...it does happen...and because the news and such has made it such a big deal because of a few cases it makes things harder on the adoptive parents...I personally wouldn't let the birth parents in on every aspect of my adoptive child's life just because it would be frightening...they could start to think that's such a beautiful child and so smart or whatever and start thinking they want the child back...that would be "my" child now...not theirs...and the courts are begining to let birth parents take their children back more and more often...once the child turned 18 I would help them find the birth parents if that's what they wanted though...you have to understand it's heart breaking on both sides, not just yours and tv has adoptive parents scared...
Brat
SINthysist
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BlondeGirl
Nice try, but I, you, my daughter, the whole world knows why she was disposed of as soon as she was born.
She had the misfortune of being born in China and being a female. She was given up so her mother could have a boy. That's the truth she'll have to come to grips with. The chances of her finding her birth mother while not zero, might as well be.
Nice try, but I, you, my daughter, the whole world knows why she was disposed of as soon as she was born.
She had the misfortune of being born in China and being a female. She was given up so her mother could have a boy. That's the truth she'll have to come to grips with. The chances of her finding her birth mother while not zero, might as well be.
G
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Hey, I was one of those overseas adopted kids. From Ireland--sending bastard kids out of the country was an easy way for the government to avoid social services. And I grew up. It took me 40+ years to get up the nerve to try and find my mother.
Nothing anyone does can stop it.
Maybe I'm just lucky. My mother and I met again at Thanksgiving, 2000, and it's been just wonderful. Sure, there were lots of tears. She missed me all our lives. And there are still problems--she never told her subsequent husband that she'd had me, and doesn't feel that she can now. So I have half-siblings who also don't know about me, but I know them.
The U.S. needs to ratify the Hague Convention on international adoption. The main point of which, is that money doesn't change hands. No Buying Babies. No financial incentive for real parents to sell.
Nothing anyone does can stop it.
Maybe I'm just lucky. My mother and I met again at Thanksgiving, 2000, and it's been just wonderful. Sure, there were lots of tears. She missed me all our lives. And there are still problems--she never told her subsequent husband that she'd had me, and doesn't feel that she can now. So I have half-siblings who also don't know about me, but I know them.
The U.S. needs to ratify the Hague Convention on international adoption. The main point of which, is that money doesn't change hands. No Buying Babies. No financial incentive for real parents to sell.
SINthysist
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The U.S. needs to adhere to it's constitution and ignore socialist Europe until that house of cards collapses upon itself and leaves itself open for the upcoming Islamic Jihad [ala Pat Buchanon].
But more seriously, Europe has been the source of so many flaky treaties built on Bad Science, Kyoto, or bad secular social engineering. They do not reflect the values of America and hence, are rightly ignored except for leftists elitists who always seem to have some sort of inferiority complex when it comes to Europe.
But more seriously, Europe has been the source of so many flaky treaties built on Bad Science, Kyoto, or bad secular social engineering. They do not reflect the values of America and hence, are rightly ignored except for leftists elitists who always seem to have some sort of inferiority complex when it comes to Europe.
