B Plot, or Side Story?

[NuclearFairy]

How do you decide when something is so integral with the main plot that it needs to stay in the story as a b plot.

How do you decide when it's gone off on its own tangent and needs to mostly be scraped from that story and written as it's own side story, sequel, or spin off?

 

[Britva415]

I don't understand the question.

I mean, I do, but, I don't understand how one can fail to be aware of whether the subplot is a Chekhov's Gun or not.

Can the overall story happen without the subplot? Or would removing the subplot make it a different story entirely and require different events?

 

[Bamagan]

How do you decide when something is so integral with the main plot that it needs to stay in the story as a b plot.

How do you decide when it's gone off on its own tangent and needs to mostly be scraped from that story and written as it's own side story, sequel, or spin off?

Assuming a literal (mathematical?) tangent is being referred to (a single point where a line intersects a curve or shape), does the integral part of B seem sensible on its own at the point where it intersects A. If yes, then that's all you need of B in the first place, and if it's sufficiently interesting it can later become a sequel or spin-off or whatever. If no, that suggests you need more of B before and/or after the intersection point in order for it to not be 'out of nowhere' or a clumsy narrative device (deus ex machina style).

 

[old_prof]

How do you decide when something is so integral with the main plot that it needs to stay in the story as a b plot.

How do you decide when it's gone off on its own tangent and needs to mostly be scraped from that story and written as it's own side story, sequel, or spin off?

To me, there's lots of questions that need to be asked first.

As @Britva415 says, is this potential subplot integral to the main plot, advancing it somehow.

How long is the story itself. A short story generally does not want subplots in general. Novellas probably want one. A full novel often has many subplots. Tolkien (and Lucas in Star Wars) loved to split the story into separate strands that are woven together again to define the final story arc.

Does it distract from the main plot or compliment it. Does is show aspects of your characters that otherwise would not be clear?

Do you need this to maintain pace in slow parts of your main plot. Sanderson talks about adding subplots to keep a steady beat of action at the pace he wants at a given point in a story arc.

Can it resolve close to the same time as the climax of the main story arc?

 

[crookedletter]

If I ask myself that question and don't know the answer, I'd probably be inclined toward cutting it. Take it out, read what you have. Is it better? Is it at least not worse? Keep it out. Or, identify what about what you've cut now feels missing.

 

[Britva415]

f I ask myself that question and don't know the answer, I'd probably be inclined toward cutting it. Take it out, read what you have. Is it better? Is it at least not worse?

"Is it broken?"

 

[Writer61]

How do you decide when something is so integral with the main plot that it needs to stay in the story as a b plot.

How do you decide when it's gone off on its own tangent and needs to mostly be scraped from that story and written as it's own side story, sequel, or spin off?

If it is integral then it has to stay.

My target is 3-5 (Lit) pages so if including it helps achieve that, then it stays, otherwise it comes out.

 

[old_prof]

My target is 3-5 (Lit) pages so if including it helps achieve that, then it stays, otherwise it comes out.

To me the story drives everything, including the length (except for 750s). I don't have a pre-ordained length I target. I usually have an idea how long a story will end up being, but I'm not striving for it. I would never include (or exclude) anything to change the length of the story.

I did argue above that the length matters, but I think I meant that differently than you're saying. The depth and complexity of the story matter here and length of story can be a surrogate for that. 3-5 lit pages is a longish short story to a short novella. I would probably avoid subplots for something that length UNLESS the subplot is necessary for the story arc or to help define an important character. You probably have little by way of character arcs in a story that length. Maybe the MC has an epiphany.

 

[Writer61]

To me the story drives everything, including the length (except for 750s). I don't have a pre-ordained length I target. I usually have an idea how long a story will end up being, but I'm not striving for it. I would never include (or exclude) anything to change the length of the story.

I did argue above that the length matters, but I think I meant that differently than you're saying. The depth and complexity of the story matter here and length of story can be a surrogate for that. 3-5 lit pages is a longish short story to a short novella. I would probably avoid subplots for something that length UNLESS the subplot is necessary for the story arc or to help define an important character. You probably have little by way of character arcs in a story that length. Maybe the MC has an epiphany.

I think (hope) that character/story arcs come from the series, rather than individual episodes.

 

[old_prof]

I think (hope) that character/story arcs come from the series, rather than individual episodes.

Not everyone writes episodic series. Personally, I write everything from silly little one page stories to full length novels. My most common has been 25-30K novellas that are not part of a series. I did write a long series of episodic stories that I still occasionally add to. Those have individual story arcs that add to the overall saga arc. Generally one or two characters have their own personal growth in any given episode.

Each of us do things differently in length and organization of stories.

 

[BobbyBrandt]

I live for the sub-plots in most of my stories. Many have led to subsequent stories on their own.

IMO the key is to always provide a resolution to the sub-plot, or at the very least, leave it as a cliff-hanger for a sequel and then write that to provide the resolution. Never leave it dangling.

 

[TheWritingGroup]

In "Pranked" one of the main characters originally encounters a neighbor, who distracts her long enough for her to be separated from her stepdaughter. Maureen really had nothing to do with the story itself, she was just a distraction. Unfortunately, I decided she was distracting the reader more than the protagonist.

On the other hand, I found her intriguing to write. Why was she there, anyway?

Maureen got cut out of "Pranked," but she's the heroine of "Wager" and "Winnings," her side-stories.

--Annie

 

[pink_silk_glove]

How do you decide when something is so integral with the main plot that it needs to stay in the story as a b plot.

How do you decide when it's gone off on its own tangent and needs to mostly be scraped from that story and written as it's own side story, sequel, or spin off?

A longer story will have b plot for sure,maybe even c plot, d plot. There are no spinoffs. It's either in or out.

 

[NuclearFairy]

To clarify, this question wasn't about any story in particular. I was just pondering the question and wondered what your guys' take was on it.

 

[anthrodisiac]

It depends on how much you care about how tight the story is. Overall length plays a major factor in how much side plot to include. Like @pink_silk_glove mentioned, longer stories can tolerate subplots better.

It's a very subjective line depending on your writing style, genre, word count, topic, objective for the story, etc. Sometimes it's nice to just have a subplot because it tells you more about the world or the characters. Sometimes you do it because it's fun. I like incorporating subplots in shorter works if they take place in the same universe, because then you can pop in characters that will show up in their own stories, or as side characters in another story, and it's cool to see those interactions if it makes sense to include them. How someone behaves when talking to MC 1 vs. MC 2 is a fun facet.

 

[SinclairGroupLLP]

My take has always been whether the Plot B (or C or more) advances the overall story and enhances the characters, giving them arcs or making them more real.

My series has so many different plots going on at the same time, but I think they're all important to getting the characters to the ending I've had in mind since I started. Some of the B plots have totally taken over the main plot temporarily, if that's where the story makes sense to go.

I will agree with others that it all depends on how long a story you're willing to tell. All the stuff I do I tend to write in scenes like I'm doing a screenplay, and I try to tie the various plots together like I would a serialized TV show or a movie.

This is probably why my series are all 500k+ words or more, lol.

If you're not interested in writing books, then I would suggest probably pairing things back - you can always use the extra material in another story or series of chapters, if that's what you are aiming for.

 

[MrPixel]

In my big story (recently finished) there were a number of subplots that didn't necessarily influence the primary story line. There was, however, a subtle B-plot where a character was introduced roughly halfway in who became a major player. The whole story ended when the life circumstance establishing her presence was resolved, so she was free to resume her former life. Fade to black.

 

[Paul_Chance]

Your subplot should:


A. Support the resolution of your Plot

B. Contain at least one relevant and necessary plot resolution element


If your subplot does not meet both the criteria above, then cut it out.


Here’s an example:


Main Plot: Heroine rescues Hero by riding non-stop for a hundred miles to cut off bandits who kidnapped Hero.


Subplot: Heroines sister meets her at 50 mile relay point with change of horses.


It’s necessary so the heroine can complete her ride to the rescue and as such is a subplot in support of the plot.


If, suddenly in your story the focus on the subplot becomes more engaging (to you, the writer), then by all means consider taking the sister off on her own adventure.

 

[ronde]

I have used subplots to help define characters. The hard-nosed cop tracking down a bad guy, but is suddenly faced with helping a lost kid would be an example. If you write a character into one plot, you'll assign that character a personality based on that plot. Put in a subplot, and you can show another side of the character that might help you explain why he or she does something within the main plot.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

A. Support the resolution of your Plot

B. Contain at least one relevant and necessary plot resolution element


If your subplot does not meet both the criteria above, then cut it out.

yes, I believe that a lot of folks here just have so much fun sandboxing their fave kinky characters, they forget that some poor soul has to slog through 53 meandering pointless chapters. Trim, cut, edit. Thios is also why you should write the whole thing first before posting any.

 

[Paul_Chance]

yes, I believe that a lot of folks here just have so much fun sandboxing their fave kinky characters, they forget that some poor soul has to slog through 53 meandering pointless chapters. Trim, cut, edit. Thios is also why you should write the whole thing first before posting any.

That’s my opinion as well. (It’s also why I think chapters have decreasing readership through a long work.)

 

[MrPixel]

It’s also why I think chapters have decreasing readership through a long work.

And you would be right. I have no issue at all with it.

 

[pink_silk_glove]

That’s my opinion as well. (It’s also why I think chapters have decreasing readership through a long work.)

I agree. Obviously there are going to be readers who like the first chapter and then after chapter 4 or 5 lose the feeling for it no matter how well written or how tight the plot is, but another factor is that those first couple of chapters were inspired and the rest of them were just the author sandboxing and fooling around with his beloved characters and everything just meanders pointlessly. The plot is crap because the writer has zero plan whatsoever and no sense of cohesion. He's just arrogantly putting the reader through this long and tiring gauntlet of every idea that he can possibly wring out of his characters and not throwing away a single line. There is no plan at all. No roadmap. It's just sidetrack after sidetrack because there is no meaningful plot, just the ramblings of the writer's addiction to his fucking amazing characters every time that he gets out of bed and decides to tack more on to the end of this saga. It's the writer getting wrapped up in his writing experience with no regard whatsoever for the reader and the reading experience. He loves writing this, so everyone else should equally love reading it and get the same high. Well it doesn't work that way.

Write the whole thing first, all 59 chapters, Then go back and edit and trim, tie things up, streamline, vertically integrate and foreshadow. Do all of these things and you will have a better story that creates a more cohesive reading experience and interest in later chapters will improve.

But no, if you do this, you'll have to wait months and years before someone tells you how awesome you are and gives you a 5. That's fine but you are holding back your own writing and your development as a writer.

But I'm a pantser. I have to post as I go. No you don't. Pantsers need to edit more than plotters do. If you post as you go and string out a meandering aimless yarn, you can't edit. If you are not willing to do this, you are probably not a true pantser. You're just lazy and you're writing for attention and applause. Editing schmediting. I need to hit submit so I can get some scores!

 

[OddLove]

I don't overthink it too much. My process is pretty much 'Do I like this?' Then if the answer is yes I keep going. If the answer is no I scrap it.

But also, I don't taking writing as serious as others. So I'm not thinking beyond what I like.

Most of the time I don't even know what's going to happen next when I'm writing. I'm just in my own head talking to writing crew like "Oh! imagine this happens." Then I'm like "yeah, and the he says babble babble all flirty like" and as I'm writing that another one speaks up "hey, how about this?" so I'm like "hell yeah" and I write that down too.

Then we negotiate during editing a little bit and send that shit.

So if you kind of freestyle it like me, then in my opinion you should fill out the side plot to completion, then check during a read through after and decide if you like it or not.

 

[anthrodisiac]

Pantsers need to edit more than plotters do. If you post as you go and string out a meandering aimless yarn, you can't edit. If you are not willing to do this, you are probably not a true pantser. You're just lazy and you're writing for attention and applause. Editing schmediting. I need to hit submit so I can get some scores!

No kidding. As a lifelong pantser, I tend to massively overwrite and then end up trimming 25 - 30% on average because I thought it would be fun to chase down some fun little thread, only to discover later that it had no purpose other than my own amusement. Knowing that, I'm doing my best to be very intentional with my series, doing honest-to-god planning of the chapters ahead of time so I know the scope of the arc, themes for each chapter, lessons for the MC to learn in each chapter, keeping it fresh while progressing the MC's growth.

It's definitely a lot different when you're posting one chapter at a time. If I'm writing a book, I don't have to worry about these things in the moment because I can always go back and nix my self-indulgence before publication. Now I don't have that luxury.

Serial work is a very new experience for me. It's been interesting.