Avatar......WOW!

[SnoopDog]

The story line is an insulting piece of shit; it's completely nonsense, with flat, stereotypical characters, cardboard plot line ("Dances with Wolves," "Last Samurai" etc., etc.) and the old line about the "White guy" who, after learning the native ways saves the natives who can't save themselves from white guys.

Someone called this movie $300 million dollar version of "Fern Gully" and they're right. Dazzling, yes. But any director with that much money and that much CGI experts and creative people working for him could give you the same. I'll tip my hat to Cameron for showing what 3-D and CGI can really do. But that's it.

This story had me wincing and cringing with embarrassment. I don't mind going to a popcorn movie to enjoy the popcorn, but I do mind popcorn movies that toss in creaky old stereotypes and pretend that just because they're aliens and not, oh, say, Native Americans, that I shouldn't be insulted.

And there's more than a few holes in the story. This thing is a sieve. One example: this science which can forcibly grow whole bodies of combined alien-human DNA can't restore a guy's own nerves (for his legs) for cheap? Okay, fine, how about this science that makes all these robot exoskeletons giving him some robot legs? We give those to vets now. But all this guy gets is a cheap wheelchair?They can afford to give him a 6-year flight to an alien planet but not a cool wheelchair? And what about that bull-shitum-mineral they're after? What does it do? What does it do that people who have faster-than-light science can't do?

And oh, Lordy, dem poor ignorant (but glow-in-the-dark-pretty) natives, they lives their whole existence plugged into the planet but it takes dat white man to think of askin' it for help! Good thing dem natives done taught him how to plug in! He even thought to get himself the biggest penis (I mean, dragon) when no one else thought o' that. Dem white fellas sure are clever, especially when they ain't scientists, cause scientists, shoot, they know too much, ya gots to start out stupid in order to learn how to connect with the natives and save their asses for 'em. We don't want no smarties, no sir!

This is "Phantom Menace" all over again. The Emperor has no clothes. None. But my-oh-my, aren't those missing clothes purdy.

I saw it once; I won't ever see it again. I can put those three hours to much better use. Enjoy the sequels.

Very well said indeed.



Snoopy

 

[Recidiva]

The story line is an insulting piece of shit; it's completely nonsense, with flat, stereotypical characters, cardboard plot line ("Dances with Wolves," "Last Samurai" etc., etc.) and the old line about the "White guy" who, after learning the native ways saves the natives who can't save themselves from white guys.

Someone called this movie $300 million dollar version of "Fern Gully" and they're right. Dazzling, yes. But any director with that much money and that much CGI experts and creative people working for him could give you the same. I'll tip my hat to Cameron for showing what 3-D and CGI can really do. But that's it.

This story had me wincing and cringing with embarrassment. I don't mind going to a popcorn movie to enjoy the popcorn, but I do mind popcorn movies that toss in creaky old stereotypes and pretend that just because they're aliens and not, oh, say, Native Americans, that I shouldn't be insulted.

And there's more than a few holes in the story. This thing is a sieve. One example: this science which can forcibly grow whole bodies of combined alien-human DNA can't restore a guy's own nerves (for his legs) for cheap? Okay, fine, how about this science that makes all these robot exoskeletons giving him some robot legs? We give those to vets now. But all this guy gets is a cheap wheelchair?They can afford to give him a 6-year flight to an alien planet but not a cool wheelchair? And what about that bull-shitum-mineral they're after? What does it do? What does it do that people who have faster-than-light science can't do?

And oh, Lordy, dem poor ignorant (but glow-in-the-dark-pretty) natives, they lives their whole existence plugged into the planet but it takes dat white man to think of askin' it for help! Good thing dem natives done taught him how to plug in! He even thought to get himself the biggest penis (I mean, dragon) when no one else thought o' that. Dem white fellas sure are clever, especially when they ain't scientists, cause scientists, shoot, they know too much, ya gots to start out stupid in order to learn how to connect with the natives and save their asses for 'em. We don't want no smarties, no sir!

This is "Phantom Menace" all over again. The Emperor has no clothes. None. But my-oh-my, aren't those missing clothes purdy.

I saw it once; I won't ever see it again. I can put those three hours to much better use. Enjoy the sequels.

It's funny how I see it differently. I loved the movie.

I just don't consider the "white person" and "native person" comparison here to be the only way to see it.

I consider myself a person who is deeply connected to the Earth, and I'd be equally deeply connected to that planet. I don't really consider race to be a factor of how connected you are spiritually, any more than race is a factor in how well you can sing or dance or love.

I don't care who saves whom. Just that there's saving going on. And it's not about how cultures are ignorant, it's how combining cultures and strategies and tactics results in a superior ability to fight something you might not otherwise have understood.

My only disappointment is I expected Jake to figure it out earlier and to have helped them reinforce that damned tree, drop rocks into rotors and drag humans out of that camp one by one and give them a simple choice to stop or die.

I also didn't think the tree should have had to come up with the "herd the wildlife thataway" idea. When I saw the first line of horses I said to my husband "I hope they're herding those big motherfucking rhino things, because that's what I'd do."

 

[Belegon]

Hmmm...not sure about that. I had the impression that the brother was cremated before the journey.

Me too, but if Jenny didn't pick up on it, it indicates a hole in the storytelling again. Because one of the tests of good writing should be that others are not confused about what is actually happening.

If I have people reading my work who are confused about the sequence of events, I would consider that a comment on my execution of the narrative. After all, its my job to tell them what is going on.

 

[SnoopDog]

I might draw some heavy fire here but I think the whole "story doesn't matter as long as it's a good action/SFX/joyride movie"-argument is invalid.

If people spend SO much money on a single movie (and it has definitely reached a level of insanity that is not to be justified anymore), then why not spend 0,01% of the budget on someone who's able to at least pull of a decent story. I mean, come on guys, a couple of hundred millions and a production time of what, a year all together or so? Why not the little extra effort?

I tell you why. Because they don't really care. When it comes to it, tt's a formula/genre movie - the rest is all smoke and mirrors.

Basically they're sh**** in our faces and saying, "hey, but it looks nice, doesn't it? And it's a hell of a ride".

Is it? Absoluety.
Does it suffice? Absolutely not.

I won't say it's as bad as a Bay-movie, and I'm clearly for stupid action movies. But if you give us what you call a Megamovie that's trying to be a milestone to the medium then just-below-mediocre isn't enough. I'm sorry.

Don't get my wrong. I know that the movie does what the producers set out to do - earn money and give some people a good time. But for, it is really a bad sign for the industry when talented people like Cameron with a huge load of money cannot come up with something more than eye-candy.


Snoopy's two cents.

 

[Verdad]

I'm going to feel like such a grumpy old spoilsport, too, but I thought the movie substandard. A visual delight without much depth was what I expected, and I was fine with that. The movie still left me completely unmoved, though, 3D and all.

The good part was seeing some old school sci-fi tropes brought to life. There seems to have been a bit of everything there, from A. E. Van Vogt to Larry Niven. Still, the movie remained Dances with the Wolves in alien drag, and that's all I can say about it. The world and the characters evaporated from my mind the minute I exited the theater, if not sooner.

 

[jomar]

I suspect that for many expectations exceeded reality.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Jenny, identical twins happen when one egg splits and becomes two embryos. They share the same DNA.

That's not far-fetched, it's fact.

Actually, that makes no difference. (Burrus V, Waldor M (2004). "Shaping bacterial genomes with integrative and conjugative elements). The human DNA is constantly changing within each person from viruses, cosmic radiation, exposure to certain pesticides and something called "hypermutation" that occurs as cells divid normally. That means that for the first few weeks after the maternal twins are born their DNA is the same. From that point on their DNA will diverge. This is the reason man "identical twins" from the same egg often times do not look alike and have different body styles.

 

[Nirvanadragones]

I adored it. Not only from a photographic perspective (even though what they did with that is pretty fucking amazing)

Their connection with the earth really moved me. As did the music. And it made me feel. Which is always a good thing.

Ironically, I was thinking about Lit, right after the movie - free associated with AV/ avatar - who we are, who we really are, what we show to the world. How easy it is to try on a different "skin". I know we've had the discussion a million times before. But the movie brought it home once again, how we can live in two worlds, and be the same person, yet not, in both.

 

[Jenny_Jackson]

Me too, but if Jenny didn't pick up on it, it indicates a hole in the storytelling again. Because one of the tests of good writing should be that others are not confused about what is actually happening.

If I have people reading my work who are confused about the sequence of events, I would consider that a comment on my execution of the narrative. After all, its my job to tell them what is going on.

It's not that I didn't pick up where the cremation takes place, it's the way it was presented. Look, Jake is awakened from staus at the planet. The next thing is the brother is being cremated. The dialogue indicates he was shot in a robbery a week before the departure. Then next lines are "the company" telling him to take over the job. It's a gap in the telling, not the plot.

 

[Stella_Omega]

3113, you are certainly in an unforgiving mood re:this year's holiday movies.

I enjoyed it despite the cliched story. Yeah, I could see what was going to happen. So what?

I don't need every movie to be The Usual Suspects or Momento.

I do. It's really depressing to think that the more money invested in a film, the stupider it will be.

This movie is a visual event and it totally delivers on that level. And I like the story just fine. Yeah, it's cliched. But sometimes a thing becomes a cliche because it works.

This basic story works. Yes, it is easy enough to run the "Noble Savage" thing on top of this... but while I recognized it, it didn't bother me as much as it did 3113.

That might be because 3113's husband is black.

It's much harder to not let it bother you, when you or an SO has dealt with the ignorance and neglect of our common entertainment for your entire life. I mean-- think about that.

Sure the cliches work; as long as you aren't the one targeted by the cliche, they work to your advantage. But if you are not the white conqueror, those cliches work real well -- in a real wrong way.

Dude is basically still following orders and being a marine, only thing he knows how to be. His world view gets expanded and he has a change of heart. Cliche? Absolutely. But does it really happen that way? EVERY SINGLE DAY! My own father is a perfect real life example of it. Not just in military matters of course... I'm talking more generally.

yes.
We want to hear stories about ourselves. And when it comes to other cultures and other races, all of us well-meaning, liberal White Guys-- we want to have a well-meaning White Hero that redeems our race for the crapola we have inflicted on everyone else. So, that's what we give ourselves.

And we want those other people to forgive us, so we write the natives welcoming our White Guy Hero into their world (just like they would do for Me because I am so special and better than your average White Guy and in no way racist). We gift ourselves with natives that are happy to have us and gladly share their Native Wisdom and Insights With us.

But, if you are a member of some other culture, you know what is on that screen? Another stupid native giving it up to a White Guy. That's what someone Not White sees.

We are sure that we are smarter, really. We are Americans and we innovate, and damn we are good! We can even be better at being a native then those natives ever thought of. And we bring fresh new insights to their native, tradition-bound ways. We win their battles for them.

Which means that no other culture can even hold their own traditions. White Guys can grab what attracts them, and do it better. If you are of any other culture, sitting in that movie theater-- that's the message you get.

Funny how us White Guys never notice that, huh? Wonder why not?

White Guys can Dance with Wolves and Save the Indians! White Guys can be the Last Samurai! The Japs can't be a last Samurai nearly as well. White Guys can have a Faithful Tonto sidekick! An adorable Native Princess Bride! Tame the Biggest dragon of all! Yeah, baby!

And when someone like... a black guy, or a native American mentions that they might like, just once in a while, to see their own people in the center of a narrative about their own people, we white folks get so hurt. Those unforgiving and unappreciative persons of color. Why should the cliches bother them? They are only cliches, and if they get repeated ad nauseum, it's because they work...

for us.

Us White Guys.

And who else matters, after all? Blacks? Women? Native Americans? Mexicans? They aren't the target market. And they like our White entertainment just fine. They don't complain about it anyway. Unless, of course, they are feeling unforgiving because it's Christmas or something, those spoilsports.

I haven't written a review of this yet, having only returned from seeing a couple hours ago. But I would completely recommend it, and I would also say that to enjoy it as it was intended you must see it big and beautiful.

And put any desire to be part of the story, right out of your mind, if you happen to not be White or a Guy.

Sorry, Bel.

 

[jomar]

.....

 

[Belegon]

Stella, the more I read your post, the more it angers me.

My children are not white, although their father is. Your post is based on an assumption and then uses the color of my skin as proof that your assumption is correct. And in the process implies that I am incapable of empathy.

To say I feel insulted is a gross understatement. You just used me to make your own point and did so without knowledge of or consideration for my feelings.

Your apology is not accepted.

And that is about all I have to say to you on the subject.

 

[Stella_Omega]

In that case, I hope that you will want to think carefully about the dearth of not-white heroes in your children's entertainment. And you might want think carefully about how you dismissed someone else's anger because the cliches don't bother you.

Avatar is just another brick in the wall of white-oriented entertainment. It's a mighty high wall.

 

[ishtat]

Visually - brilliant utterly stunning

The story - patronising, cliched, anti American vomit inducing claptrap.

'Chipmunks' is outrating it in Sydney after only a few days.