Author question

[CharleyH]

This is something that has been on my mind for ages. I have read many erotic novels off the library shelf - classic and new (The Lover and Lolita, as examples) and many articles by well known sexologists that have an element of childhood porn or in the latter case childhood sexual memory. I do wonder why the Internet (as a new media) does not often allow the same leeway to discuss childhood memory or experiences when it is quite .... natural really.

Just a discussion - any ideas?

 

[cloudy]

Not sure about elsewhere, but there's no doubt that the current political climate here in the states has an influence.

 

[CharleyH]

Not sure about elsewhere, but there's no doubt that the current political climate here in the states has an influence.

In both or written word internet vs. novel/magazine publishing?

 

[cloudy]

In both or written word internet vs. novel/magazine publishing?

I think both.

There's such a climate of fear right now about putting anything forward about sexuality.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

I think both.

There's such a climate of fear right now about putting anything forward about sexuality.

Especially in light of all the latest censorship.

Hi C.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

This is something that has been on my mind for ages. I have read many erotic novels off the library shelf - classic and new (The Lover and Lolita, as examples) and many articles by well known sexologists that have an element of childhood porn or in the latter case childhood sexual memory. I do wonder why the Internet (as a new media) does not often allow the same leeway to discuss childhood memory or experiences when it is quite .... natural really.

Just a discussion - any ideas?

I believe the source of your confusion is that you're comparing two things that aren't comparable.

Novels, classic and new, that touch subject of underage and childhood sexual experiences, do so under the approach of a literary work, for a reason that goes beyond the purpose of sexually arousing readers. The same thing happens in essays and articles on the same subject matter, obviously.

When you say that the internet does not often allow the same leeway to discuss those subjects, you're thinking of pornography sites. Literotica, for example, even having the root of Literature in its name, is still primarily a porn site. That's what the majority of readers are looking for when they come here. In that context, it's natural that the owners of this site, as well as of the majority of porn sites, decide not to cater to paedophile fantasies.

If you search the internet for communities exclusively dedicated to literature or to sexology without a focus on pornography, you will have no trouble finding discussions, stories and novels, classic and new, with elements of childhood sexuality.

 

[ABSTRUSE]

Hi Lauren.

 

[Purple Sage]

This is something that has been on my mind for ages. I have read many erotic novels off the library shelf - classic and new (The Lover and Lolita, as examples) and many articles by well known sexologists that have an element of childhood porn or in the latter case childhood sexual memory. I do wonder why the Internet (as a new media) does not often allow the same leeway to discuss childhood memory or experiences when it is quite .... natural really.

Just a discussion - any ideas?

The question of 'literary merit' aside, I think one of the major reasons/pretexts for censoring the internet is accessability. On the one hand, minors are easily exposed to porn, and on the other hand people trafficking in the truly heinous and illegal have a quick, easy and relatively difficult to trace medium of exchange. I'm not particularly impressed by either of these arguments, I think they are indeed pretexts to justify government monitoring of the internet, but I think they are the ostensible reasons for the difference in attitude.

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Governm monitoring is a myth. The internet is global, and the percentage of pornography sites lodged in the US is reduced. No government can control it.

 

[Weird Harold]

I do wonder why the Internet (as a new media) does not often allow the same leeway to discuss childhood memory or experiences when it is quite .... natural really.

I wonder if we're using the same Internet?

I frequent four different erotic story/porn sites and literotica is the ONLY one that bans underage sex, snuff, and bestiality and has any standards at all regarding non-consent stories.

I think one of the reasons there is so much political discussion about controling the content of the internet is that there is so MUCH material available that arguably is directly aimed at the arousal of pedphiles. Not to mention the sheer volume of absolutely erroneous information about human sexualiy that wealth of pornographic material contains -- and not just the "pedo" stories.

 

[CharleyH]

Especially in light of all the latest censorship.

Hi C.

Hi A. The 2257 laws (which are American) affect an international community? Why? (other than security council issies) Why. exactly, since you are American.

What is the latest censorship? :|

 

[CharleyH]

I wonder if we're using the same Internet?

I frequent four different erotic story/porn sites and literotica is the ONLY one that bans underage sex, snuff, and bestiality and has any standards at all regarding non-consent stories.

I think one of the reasons there is so much political discussion about controling the content of the internet is that there is so MUCH material available that arguably is directly aimed at the arousal of pedphiles. Not to mention the sheer volume of absolutely erroneous information about human sexualiy that wealth of pornographic material contains -- and not just the "pedo" stories.

I won't say what I do, but I am certain I come in contact with these issues more than you, WH. . There is fear in the Adult E community, even on Lit - where does it stem from? Almost every site from Thailand to Europe and Canada have a 2257 statement on their site. Why? 2257 is an American law? No?

 

[Pure]

Hi Lauren,

You said,

If you search the internet for communities exclusively dedicated to literature or to sexology without a focus on pornography, you will have no trouble finding discussions, stories and novels, classic and new, with elements of childhood sexuality.

I can see that for written material, but I think there's a genuine 'chill' regarding images. For another thread on Lewis Carroll, I tried to find the only four remaining child nudes of his, and only one was I able to turn up.
Yet those pictures are in a standard 'hard copy' mainstream biography.

There is, of course, some, written child porn at certain sites.

But I think your general point is correct that porn sites are in a poor position, if they 'cross the line', or if they're singled out as in the two cases in Fla (Red Rose Stories, and 'thatsreallyfuckedup' dot com.

http://www.ncsfreedom.org/news/2005/102005ObscenityWave.htm

http://www.cybercrimelaw.org/blog/220/Obscenity+laws+and+war+photos.html

They are already, at present, vulnerable under 'obscenity' law, which now has particular focus on 'deviations.' But I think most sites in or connected with the US are wary of being tarred as 'child porn' purveyors-- or 'material harmful to minors' as some of the proposed laws have said. There are millions to be made if one just stays 'mainstream'.

So as you say, a "Literature" site has more leeway. There are classics, like Romeo and Juliet which are safe; attacking them would create a stronge defense.

 

[Norajane]

Since Yahoo, Microsoft and AOL just handed over their data on what people search for on the internet, and Google is in litigation over the same issue, the last thing anyone using their services is 'safe' to do is search for forums to discuss sexual development of young adults.

The feds are specifically searching for pedophiles, but who's to say you won't be arrested until they sort you out. Maybe far-fetched, but not entirely so.

 

[CharleyH]

I believe the source of your confusion is that you're comparing two things that aren't comparable.

Novels, classic and new, that touch subject of underage and childhood sexual experiences, do so under the approach of a literary work, for a reason that goes beyond the purpose of sexually arousing readers. The same thing happens in essays and articles on the same subject matter, obviously.

When you say that the internet does not often allow the same leeway to discuss those subjects, you're thinking of pornography sites.

No Lauren, I am not thinking that. Internet publishers barely want even an intellectual or psychoanalytical hint of childhood sexuality for fear of being attacked by the 2257 police. Why are Americans the internet police? Every country has their own stipulations on acceptable and unaccepted publication sex, why is sex on the Internet regulated by America?

 

[Norajane]

No Lauren, I am not thinking that. Internet publishers barely want even an intellectual or psychoanalytical hint of childhood sexuality for fear of being attacked by the 2257 police. Why are Americans the internet police? Every country has their own stipulations on acceptable and unaccepted publication sex, why is sex on the Internet regulated by America?

Do you Yahoo?

 

[Colleen Thomas]

Someone, somewhere might be having fun.

The local busybody comittee can't allow that. People start having fun and the next thing you know they're dancing, or skipping church, or reading trashy novels like Huckleberry Finn. Have to nip that kind of thing in the bud.

Where you go as an author, should be unfettered by anything other than the bounds of your imagination and interest. At this time, in this country, a good many people want to put up legal fences to keep you on the approved path.

Otherwise you might actually enjoy what you are doing, and as we all know, that's a sin.

 

[CharleyH]

Hi Lauren,

You said,

If you search the internet for communities exclusively dedicated to literature or to sexology without a focus on pornography, you will have no trouble finding discussions, stories and novels, classic and new, with elements of childhood sexuality.

I can see that for written material, but I think there's a genuine 'chill' regarding images. For another thread on Lewis Carroll, I tried to find the only four remaining child nudes of his, and only one was I able to turn up.
Yet those pictures are in a standard 'hard copy' mainstream biography.

There is, of course, some, written child porn at certain sites.

But I think your general point is correct that porn sites are in a poor position, if they 'cross the line', or if they're singled out as in the two cases in Fla (Red Rose Stories, and 'thatsreallyfuckedup' dot com.

Okay I see your point, but you discuss ... fairy tales and the fairy tales you speak came from the salons on Paris, no.

Thanks for your add Pure.

 

[Weird Harold]

Almost every site from Thailand to Europe and Canada have a 2257 statement on their site. Why? 2257 is an American law? No?

In compliance with United States Code, Title 18, Section 2257, all models, actors, actresses and other persons who appear in any visual depiction ...

Section 2257 only applies to "visual depictions" and to American users of the internet -- who just happen to be the most lucrative demographic for porn sites. It just makes simple business sense to announce that your site does not put your paying customers in danger of prosecution.

Title 18 section 2257 is seen as the "tip of the wedge" by both sides of the issue of censorship, but to the best of my knoweldge the written word is still safe for now and only a few sites, like Literotica are pessimistic enough to avoid accepting stories they may have to remove in the future.

 

[CharleyH]

Section 2257 only applies to "visual depictions" and to American users of the internet -- who just happen to be the most lucrative demographic for porn sites. It just makes simple business sense to announce that your site does not put your paying customers in danger of prosecution.

Title 18 section 2257 is seen as the "tip of the wedge" by both sides of the issue of censorship, but to the best of my knoweldge the written word is still safe for now and only a few sites, like Literotica are pessimistic enough to avoid accepting stories they may have to remove in the future.

2257 is certainly important for the Bush sexuality. If the most users (as you say) are American - why Victorianize them with such - stupidity? And why the hell do other countries care? I can technically as a Canadian, write child porn (not an advocate - just a point) as my constitution says I can and so does my supreme court. So, if I wish to write child porn on my website, why must I be afraid of American laws? Can they really stop me as a Canadian with a 2257 law and on the internet? What will they do?

 

[CharleyH]

Just a bump ' cause ya'll panty oriented and not especially smart.

 

[impressive]

Just a bump ' cause ya'll panty oriented and not especially smart.

So why you slummin' here, then?

 

[CharleyH]

So why you slummin' here, then?

to detect the common denominator?

Joking - I appreciate all thoughts. Even yours

 

[ABSTRUSE]

to detect the common denominator?

Joking - I appreciate all thoughts. Even yours

Did you just call her fat?

 

[Liar]

2257 is certainly important for the Bush sexuality. If the most users (as you say) are American - why Victorianize them with such - stupidity? And why the hell do other countries care? I can technically as a Canadian, write child porn (not an advocate - just a point) as my constitution says I can and so does my supreme court. So, if I wish to write child porn on my website, why must I be afraid of American laws? Can they really stop me as a Canadian with a 2257 law and on the internet? What will they do?

Nopes. As long as you, the company that hosts your site, or any of it's affiliates aint American, our local laws should dictate, AFAIK. On an erotic sites that includes sponsors (who won't buty ad space unless they know you're 'legit'). Many of which are American.

I could however see that major American Internet providers could start blocking the host anyway unles it complys with US laws. And that's a lot of traffic for the struggling net porn venue.

Just a bump ' cause ya'll panty ...

Mmmm, panties...