Authenticity versus Common Reader Understanding

[elsol]

I got a comment about the authenticity of a story.

It had to do with the authenticity of my martial arts term... an amusing comment since in the two schools of TKD that I was in everyone, even the instructor, used the terms I used in my story or more 'American' ones.

But it did bring up the issue, I've always chosen what I thought was the most common reader choice of words rather than the most 'authentic' terms.

I think a reader wouldn't know what a do-bak was (since I had no fucking clue and I spent four years in one) and have to explain it in the story versus saying gi, which a majority of readers could understand.

I've always chosen to annoy the 'experts' instead of having to add unnecessary content to bring a normal reader up to common expert knowledge.

Been wondering if that was the best approach.

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[Lauren Hynde]

Dune
by Frank Herbert

FRANK HERBERT
I'm lots smarter than you are. I challenge you to understand even one of my paragraphs!

READER
Gee, Frank Herbert is smart. I can't even find the plot.

THE END​

Just say no. Do your thing.

 

[NoJo]

I got a comment about the authenticity of a story.

It had to do with the authenticity of my martial arts term... an amusing comment since in the two schools of TKD that I was in everyone, even the instructor, used the terms I used in my story or more 'American' ones.

But it did bring up the issue, I've always chosen what I thought was the most common reader choice of words rather than the most 'authentic' terms.

I think a reader wouldn't know what a do-bak was (since I had no fucking clue and I spent four years in one) and have to explain it in the story versus saying gi, which a majority of readers could understand.

I've always chosen to annoy the 'experts' instead of having to add unnecessary content to bring a normal reader up to common expert knowledge.

Been wondering if that was the best approach.

Sincerely,
ElSol

A little unexplained jargon is fine. You'll always get nitpickers. If the finer nuances of Taikwondo are relevant to your storyline, put a small glossary in at the end, like I did with my story based on the metaphor of the game of Go. But that could be considered pompous, so ya cant win.

 

[sweetnpetite]

I got a comment about the authenticity of a story.

It had to do with the authenticity of my martial arts term... an amusing comment since in the two schools of TKD that I was in everyone, even the instructor, used the terms I used in my story or more 'American' ones.

But it did bring up the issue, I've always chosen what I thought was the most common reader choice of words rather than the most 'authentic' terms.

I think a reader wouldn't know what a do-bak was (since I had no fucking clue and I spent four years in one) and have to explain it in the story versus saying gi, which a majority of readers could understand.

I've always chosen to annoy the 'experts' instead of having to add unnecessary content to bring a normal reader up to common expert knowledge.

Been wondering if that was the best approach.

Sincerely,
ElSol

I would think for a general audience, you are doing just fine. If you ever wrote a book or something, you could always put some notes in the back about (chidren's historical books often have stuff like this) what you did and why and teaching the reader a little something new. Could be Notes: or Apendix: or conversly you could put it all in an intro, so you don't loose the experts from the word go.

And then, if you were writing for a specialized market "Martial Arts Magazine" or something, of course you would use the 'proper' words. But I would think that if there's a good chance that "laypeople" are gonna be your audience, why bog them down with jargon.

So, the short answer is- You are right. Rock on.

 

[oggbashan]

Martial Arts Terminology is a special case.

The terms used in Martial Arts can cause a problem.

Different schools of the same Martial Art use different terms for the same thing. The labels are usually translated from the original language and are only approximations. What might describe an action in a California group may mean something totaly different in Korea.

Use of a term identifies you as a follower of a particular teacher. That could be good or bad - gain you respect or derision. For example one version of the Tai-Chi act 'Stork spreads its wings' is described by different Tai-Chi teachers as 'I'm a little teapot'* because they don't recognise that move as being Tai-Chi.

In general, for jargon, think it is better either to be obscure and use invented terms, or else to explain if it is necessary for the story.

Og

*I'm a little tea pot
Short and stout
Here's my handle
Here's my spout
When it's time for afternoon tea
Lift me up and pour me out.

 

[Softouch911]

As sweetnpetite said, I too concern myself with the audience. If most of the audience will understand gi but most won't know what whatthefuck is, why would you want to use technical language for a general reader. Writers who do that are accuse of using "jargon" and they suck.

This guy sounds like a pompous ass.

 

[wildsweetone]

You can please some of the people some of the time, but not everyone all of the time.

Write what feels comfortable to you in the first instance - write your experience. Others can comment all they like on it, but you will know and understand what you've said (and you will also know that all the others who learned the same way you did will also recognise what you've said).

The glossery idea is excellent - though being a website, would it be better to put the glossery at the front of the work rather than behind it? - no idea on that one, just a thought.

I wrote a piece about a Vietnam Vet. I had a couple of emails from people telling me I'd written a 'stereotypical' version of the character and that what I'd written never really happened anyway. I was given the information I wrote about not from one Vietnam Vet, but two. I had proof to back up my writing. That helped when it came to the nay-sayers' emails and I am comfortable with my writing.

 

[NoJo]

I'm a little tea pot
Short and stout
Here's my handle
Here's my spout
When it's time for afternoon tea
Lift me up and pour me out.

That's just beautiful.

 

[FantasiaRealms]

I think it is imperitive to be 'true to your school' so to speak. That is to say, write what you know, and if you don't know it all...research it until you do. I have a favorite author of the whodunnit genre/murder mysteries type books...Patricia Cornwell. The first book (not hers but my first introduction to her style) was Body Farm. The title itself intrigued me, so I picked it up. Nevermind her keen sense of writing style. What held me thereafter the last page of that book, to always seek her work out, was the simple fact that this lady KNEW what she was talking about. How would I know that? Because even though I am not a medical examiner, coroner, or any of the other amazing things her main character in the series could have and has been, I have actually been in and/or lived in the places of which she writes. And she has done great justice to my own memories and knowlege. I can appreciate the detail that goes into creating a fantasy/horror world for the reader, based upon true facts. Especially when I can read along and say "hey...I know that too!" And considering that the characters, such as Patricia Cornwell offers in her books, are usually quite worldly and intelligent, when she then offers fine and factual geography to place them within, it gives me pause to smile and say..."Now here, I can relate!" So I think it is therefore important to write what you know...because, as you shall find...if you intend to have a large enough audience, someone will eventually be there to either disagree with your fiction and find it offensive, or will heartily thank you for writing something they, too, could envision, because they, too, know what you know of the subject. That's my .02 on the matter, anyway

~Fantasia

 

[elsol]

That's what I figured... cause I was like "Dude, I was taught by a Korean Grandmaster and Russian master... they both called it 'uniform' cause they were in a America and we no speakee that foreign language stuff!"

The school wasn't actually named a Tae Kwon Do school, but 'Korean Karate' because the owner thought most americans in the 70's did not know the difference between Karate and TKD.

I can count to ten in Korean though!

Sincerely,
ElSol

 

[LadyJeanne]

*I'm a little tea pot
Short and stout
Here's my handle
Here's my spout
When it's time for afternoon tea
Lift me up and pour me out.

I don't know if that's authentic, Og. The version I learned is:

I'm a little teapot, short and stout
Here is my handle, here is my spout
When I get all steamed up, hear me shout
Just tip me over and pour me out!

 

[impressive]

Just say no. Do your thing.

I understood Herbert. (Now I'm worried about myself.)

 

[The_Fool]

I understood Herbert. (Now I'm worried about myself.)

Don't worry about it....We understand....

 

[Softouch911]

I don't know if that's authentic, Og. The version I learned is:

I'm a little teapot, short and stout
Here is my handle, here is my spout
When I get all steamed up, hear me shout
Just tip me over and pour me out!

I've been on Lit. too long.


This sounds dirty.

 

[The_Fool]

I don't know if that's authentic, Og. The version I learned is:

I'm a little teapot, short and stout
Here is my handle, here is my spout
When I get all steamed up, hear me shout
Just tip me over and pour me out!

I think I would rather pull what ever handle is required to undress you
tip you over
Get you all steamed up
hear you shout
and then pour myself into....


Nevermind.....as you were...

 

[The_Fool]

Okay, I have to make a legit comment....I've been in too many discussions that were technically correct and left most of the room with that glazed eye why am I here look. Being technically incorrect will get you chastised by the knowing few. Writing something readable will probably be read more and certainly enjoyed more.

 

[dr_mabeuse]

Depends, depends... Guys like Tom Clancy and others pop stiffies from using jargon, and they pull it off (pun intended). There's a whole genre of writing that glories in hi tech obscurantisms. They give flavor, as long as you have time to explain what they are. If you don't have time to explain them, jargon just seems like you're showing off

Writing about martial arts is probably like writing about BDSM. You're always going to hear from people who want to show that they're badder or dommier than you, and that what you called a "whip" is actually a quirt or a kurbash, as any fool should know.

As if readers are going to know what it means when your hero approaches your heroine with a kurbash in his hand.

 

[Op_Cit]

I'm with doc. I'll put it another way: If it doesn't contribute to the story I don't think it belongs.

Another factor: Just because you think it's authentic, doesn't mean it is. You can only truly say it's authentic to your own experience.

 

[LadyJeanne]

I've been on Lit. too long.


This sounds dirty.

I performed this on stage when I was 8.

I think I would rather pull what ever handle is required to undress you
tip you over
Get you all steamed up
hear you shout
and then pour myself into....

You know, I'm not really busy or anything right now...

As if readers are going to know what it means when your hero approaches your heroine with a kurbash in his hand.

Polish-Chicagoans are more likely to use a kielbasa, I believe.

 

[minsue]

Just write what is natural to you. Don't worry about the "common reader". A lot of authors don't give readers nearly the credit they deserve and we readers end up with all of our options for stories becoming homogenized mush because we're considered too stupid to read anything else. If you write well, they'll be able to understand a previously unknown word here or there because of the context.

 

[yui]

Just write what is natural to you. Don't worry about the "common reader". A lot of authors don't give readers nearly the credit they deserve and we readers end up with all of our options for stories becoming homogenized mush because we're considered too stupid to read anything else. If you write well, they'll be able to understand a previously unknown word here or there because of the context.

Well said, Min!

Is that Colly's leg?

 

[cloudy]

I try to be as authentic as I possibly can. I usually do many, many more hours of research compared to how long it takes me to actually write the story.

*shrug*

Just me, maybe.

 

[minsue]

Well said, Min!

Is that Colly's leg?

Yes......but in a non-stalker way, I swear!

 

[yui]

Yes......but in a non-stalker way, I swear!

If I weren't already in the Cult of Min I would sell my car and join it right now! Though getting there could be a problem...

 

[Virtual_Burlesque]

. . . For example one version of the Tai-Chi act 'Stork spreads its wings' is described by different Tai-Chi teachers as 'I'm a little teapot'* because they don't recognise that move as being Tai-Chi . . .

Then there is the single-arm extended stork movement, known as the "I'm a coffee pot." stance, from Arsenic & Old Lace which comes near the end of the film.

http://www.tigersweat.com/images/arsen12.jpg

Cab Driver: I'm not a cab driver. I'm a coffeepot!​