Australia tells the EU to stick Kyoto up their Arse

[WriterDom]

Where it belongs.

 

[modest mouse]

Helluvan in-depth thread. Copy and Paste too much work for you?

 

[Svedish_Chef]

The US just refuse to sign, and we are the ones telling em to shove it.

Nice.

 

[WriterDom]

The US just refuse to sign, and we are the ones telling em to shove it.

Nice.

Yeah, try and tell me you don't want global warming up your arse.

The Aussies aren't signing either.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Yeah, try and tell me you don't want global warming up your arse.

The Aussies aren't signing either.

New Zealand are sticking with the Kyoto Protocol. As we should. If Bush had a pair of balls he would also have signed.

 

[KillerMuffin]

We were smart not to sign. Look at Finland. The demand for energy never goes down, it always spirals upward. Now they're fighting environmentalists to build a nuclear power plant because they don't have the emission levels to build any other kind.

Life sucks, eh?

Besides, before Clinton left office 99 US Senators passed a Resolution stating that they would not sign Kyoto. See, there's these reports from dozens independent analysists that state the loss of jobs and money the US would sustain would make signing the treaty staggeringly detrimental to the US.

This is an excerpt from one, the Standard and Poors DRI.

"This study prepared for labor unions, confirms that even with significant emissions trading and other flexibility mechanisms, the Kyoto Protocol will (1) cost 1.3 to 1.7 million jobs, (2) annual GDP losses of $112 to $178 billion, (3) cause energy prices to rise up to 77% in some sectors, (4) cause household income to decrease 1,021 to 1,403 per family and (5) increase household energy costs by 1,012 to 1,574."

Meanwhile, China with a 40% CO2 emission rate, the second largest greenhouse gas emitter in the entire world with the cheapest labor force in the entire world would have absolutely no responsibility to decrease or control future emissions.

Some say anything is better than nothing. Morons. Kyoto is worse than nothing because it gives free emission reign to third world and newly industrialized nations and the megacorporations that will be locating their pollutants to these places.

Look it up.

Besides, none of this means jackshit if it doesn't start with the global energy consumer base who is the largest polluter in the world.

 

[miles]

Yeah, try and tell me you don't want global warming up your arse.

The Aussies aren't signing either.

Hey Writer Dude, you won't be laughing so hard when things start getting hot in August. Worse, the weather, in it's infinite racism, will turn cooler, then much cooler until about next April. Then it's going to get really warm again.

 

[WriterDom]

New Zealand are sticking with the Kyoto Protocol. As we should. If Bush had a pair of balls he would also have signed.

It's up to the senate. Last I heard they were 97-0 against. Clinton can say he was for it, but he could also say he'd sign a treaty against blow jobs and it would be only spin without senate approval.

 

[kiwiwolf]

KM, good arguements all, but with 4 kids i look at shit like this from the perspective of what sort of world are we leaving for our kids. NZ has the highest skin cancer levels in the world. One of the biggest ozone layer holes is perched right over the South Island here and it is only getting bigger. I want my kids to be able to do things that I took for granted as a kid. Lying on the beach for example. I understand and appreciate the economic impact of Kyoto but looking at the big picture the effects of not signing are far worse than the loss of jobs.

 

[miles]

KillerMuffin

We were smart not to sign. Look at Finland. The demand for energy never goes down, it always spirals upward. Now they're fighting environmentalists to build a nuclear power plant because they don't have the emission levels to build any other kind.

Life sucks, eh?

Besides, before Clinton left office 99 US Senators passed a Resolution stating that they would not sign Kyoto. See, there's these reports from dozens independent analysists that state the loss of jobs and money the US would sustain would make signing the treaty staggeringly detrimental to the US.

This is an excerpt from one, the Standard and Poors DRI.

"This study prepared for labor unions, confirms that even with significant emissions trading and other flexibility mechanisms, the Kyoto Protocol will (1) cost 1.3 to 1.7 million jobs, (2) annual GDP losses of $112 to $178 billion, (3) cause energy prices to rise up to 77% in some sectors, (4) cause household income to decrease 1,021 to 1,403 per family and (5) increase household energy costs by 1,012 to 1,574."

Meanwhile, China with a 40% CO2 emission rate, the second largest greenhouse gas emitter in the entire world with the cheapest labor force in the entire world would have absolutely no responsibility to decrease or control future emissions.

Some say anything is better than nothing. Morons. Kyoto is worse than nothing because it gives free emission reign to third world and newly industrialized nations and the megacorporations that will be locating their pollutants to these places.

Look it up.

Besides, none of this means jackshit if it doesn't start with the global energy consumer base who is the largest polluter in the world.

DON'T BELIEVE ANY OF THIS SHIT!

Facts never proved a damn thing.
Go with rhetoric. No one can disprove feelings.
If we would all just come together the air will get better.
We need solar cars - now. So what if they cost $123,000.91 each. The government has to do something now.

 

[miles]

It's up to the senate. Last I heard they were 97-0 against. Clinton can say he was for it, but he could also say he'd sign a treaty against blow jobs and it would be only spin without senate approval.

Another liar bringing facts into the debate.

Kyoto #1

 

[KillerMuffin]

I would also suggest that the average person do a little research on ice ages. Particularly the Paleozoic. You know, the Ice Age that we're starting to leave. Natural regression of glaciers is impossible to stop.

It's very true that antrhopogenic contributions are speeding the process. It's also very true that it's not going to stop even if we never emitted another carbon dioxide atom.

Interesting tidbit:

Methane is 10 times stronger than CO2 at recycling longwave radiation. Animals are the largest emitters of methane. Don't eat meat, baby. Oil drilling in polar areas, which includes Alaska, Canada, Scandinavia, and Russia also releases tons of methane. If you're American, please write your congresspersons and demand they keep drilling out of ANWR. It's a short term solution to a long range problem anyway.

Kyoto is a finger in the dyke. It's a bunch of people fooling themselves into thinking it's the solution when in the end, it's less than a solution and inherently detrimental because it treats third world and NICs like they have the carte blanche to emit.

But that's one Muff's highly informed opinion.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Kiwi, Kyoto doesn't lower global emissions. It just moves them from polluted areas to unpolluted areas that lack the infrastructure to handle the influx of industry. Most of these people don't even have sewers and they die from things like typhoid and dysentery.

So what, GM, Chrysler, and Ford quit putting it out in the US. They just move to Mexico or China and do it.

How has Kyoto helped anyone?

 

[WriterDom]

I want my kids to be able to do things that I took for granted as a kid. Lying on the beach for example.

The sun is nasty to beach bums. You don't need a treaty to figure that out. I'm sorry your kids have to wear raincoats for sex. Pussy on uncovered cock beats hours of sun on skin any day.

 

[kiwiwolf]

Kyoto is a finger in the dyke. It's a bunch of people fooling themselves into thinking it's the solution when in the end, it's less than a solution and inherently detrimental because it treats third world and NICs like they have the carte blanche to emit.

But that's one Muff's highly informed opinion.

Muff I have no arguement with any of the points you have made. The base of my arguement is emotion not logic. But for someone who is in an area being immediately affected by the damage already cause by emmisions it is hard not to have an emotive arguement base.

I can think back 20 years to a time when I could do things that my kids will never be able to do. Maybe Kyoto is just a finger in the dyke but isn't it better to do something than to sit and do nothing? Okay so we are coming out of an ice age. Why continue to compound the effects of that occurence by continuing to do damage to the atmosphere? It just doesn't make sense. I am no flag waving greenie, just someone who would like to pass on something decent to the next generation.

Kiwi farmers are going to be taxed on an emissions scale based on herd sizes. OKay so this is just a laughable drop in the bucket but it is a start. Can you really tell me that taxing some of the huge manufacturers is going to so shrink their massive profits that it will drive them out of business. I don't think so.

 

[kiwiwolf]

The sun is nasty to beach bums. You don't need a treaty to figure that out. I'm sorry your kids have to wear raincoats for sex. Pussy on uncovered cock beats hours of sun on skin any day.

You know I used to think you were a bright person. God I hate being proved wrong.

 

[miles]

Global Warming is a fraud. The "scientists" who originally supported this far fetched theory were later proven to be people with no expertise, training, or experience in anything related to the subject.

A perfect example of creating a crisis where a problem doesn't exist. Instead of talking about the impending doom and gloom the planet is facing, do a little research.

 

[Svedish_Chef]

Yeah, try and tell me you don't want global warming up your arse.

The Aussies aren't signing either.

Yeah, but apparentally we told em to shove it and you just refused to sign.

We get our large doses of global warming thanks, including a lot from the US.

Thanks guys.

 

[KillerMuffin]

Can you really tell me that taxing some of the huge manufacturers is going to so shrink their massive profits that it will drive them out of business. I don't think so.

Who said anything about them going out of business? That's not the problem.

This is what's going to happen.

They're going to move to China. They're going to build factories. They're going to build factories that have no requirements regarding pollution.

So instead of the US emitting 75% of all greenhouse gasses, China will be emitting 75% of all greenhouse gasses. Why? Kyoto does not apply to China.

Can you see how Kyoto is not only no solution, but detrimental because it merely shifts pollution from one country to another and sends industrialized nations into a depression that they simply won't be able to pull out of?

 

[kiwiwolf]

Who said anything about them going out of business? That's not the problem.

This is what's going to happen.

They're going to move to China. They're going to build factories. They're going to build factories that have no requirements regarding pollution.

So instead of the US emitting 75% of all greenhouse gasses, China will be emitting 75% of all greenhouse gasses. Why? Kyoto does not apply to China.

Can you see how Kyoto is not only no solution, but detrimental because it merely shifts pollution from one country to another and sends industrialized nations into a depression that they simply won't be able to pull out of?

Dammit KM you pushed me into actually doing some research. I bow to the weight of your knowledge on this one. This is one of the reasons I love Lit. I come here to be educated and you have certainly done that today. I still feel the same way but the emotive side of things is now tempered by a bit more knowledge on the subject.

 

[SINthysist]

kikiwolf

Wasn’t NZ relatively uninhabited? Perhaps there was a reason. We also have been on an education war for people to take care of their skin here.

Climate has caused many huge migrations. One is reminded of how several American civilizations toppled when droughts pushed the barbarians from the north (Texas & Oklahoma, go figure…).

One would not be so simplistic to say that you should move for the sake of your children, but vast frozen areas of the major land masses would suddenly become as available as NZ would be unavailable…

We really need more studying. We are just beginning and have so much to learn. So many mistakes, so many discoveries. Science is not a knee-jerk reaction. That is the domain of politics.


If you do something that is better than doing nothing, you run the risk of appointing recourses to a failed political objective and depriving the research needed to drive the sound research needed to “evolve” a solution, IF THERE IS ONE AT ALL…