Attention Gay Men

[sandcannon]

Please lend me your knowledge and experiences.

My family and I are ridiculously certain that one of our cousins is gay. Not just a little gay, but flamethrower-level flaming. This wouldnt really be a problem, except that various parts of our family are rather conservative and religious, and if he comes out of the closet his reprieve will be short lived, as he will likely be beaten to death.

Im not kidding. He will very likely be beaten to death.

Thing is, if we can get him away from the intolerant parts of the family, he'll be fine. Now we just have to get him out of the closet. He's homophobic, and gets super defensive about being called gay

For those of you who were in conservative religious families, what was the breaking point? How did you come to the realization you were gay, what got you to leave the closet, and what would we need to do to ensure he doesnt feel shunned?

 

[Chrissi]

Wow, in a couple of words: Step away and do nothing to expedite any attempt at forcing him to come out.

You have no idea if he is gay or not, please, despite your own observations, and despite what every stereotype you are aware of is telling you, don't make any assumptions.

That being said, even if your family member is gay, you have to let him come to terms with it on his own. Suicide is a significant issue in the young gay community, and to out someone on the brink and in this family situation could end badly.

Please, despite all your perceived good intentions, DO NOT ATTEMPT TO OUT YOUR FAMILY MEMBER, even privately to him.

All you can and should do at this point, is to make sure he is aware that no matter what he is safe and will be loved and respected by you.

I myself grew up in a fairly strict religious family. It was years of self doubt and difficult times before I finally understood the lesson, that God loves me no matter who I am and what I am, that He created me, and I cannot be bad or evil, just because I am gay, despite what the church taught. That being said, while I am out, my elderly father does not know. (my parents divorced when I was young.) The rest of my family knows that I am gay. It was difficult with my mother, and our relationship is cordial at best. My sister was "yeah, duh, so what" There were some surprises with some cousins, but all in all, nothing negative.

hope this helps
topher

 

[nkdjim]

Good comment Topher and good for you.

 

[suffolkengland]

What topher said, and FFS start confronting the bigotry of the other side of your family!

 

[sandcannon]

Yeah, the tolerant side of the family is just going to let the intolerant side die off due to religious extremism and a lack of belief in science. Thats the best we're willing to deal with.

Thanks for the advice. If you hadnt said that, I'd totally have called him on it at some point in the near future. (this is totally why I asked)

So I understand he has to come to this on his own, is there anything at all I can do to help him? the nutcase side of the family isnt a real threat if he doesnt come out to them directly, we know our game pretty well. But there has to be something i can do for him.

 

[Etoile]

The best thing you can do is leave him alone. This isn't your business. If he IS gay (again, you don't know) then just be supportive when he decides to do something. Until then, he has clearly stated that he doesn't want your help, and you're out of line for trying to force him.

 

[Chrissi]

Yeah, the tolerant side of the family is just going to let the intolerant side die off due to religious extremism and a lack of belief in science. Thats the best we're willing to deal with.

Thanks for the advice. If you hadnt said that, I'd totally have called him on it at some point in the near future. (this is totally why I asked)

So I understand he has to come to this on his own, is there anything at all I can do to help him? the nutcase side of the family isnt a real threat if he doesnt come out to them directly, we know our game pretty well. But there has to be something i can do for him.

You have to look at the flip side of the coin too....from what you state about his family, they sound intolerant at best...maybe his mannerisms, and dress, as you describe are his way of putting it in their face and rebelling against their attitudes and intolerance. He could be straight as an arrow.

As for stereotypes, leave them be. As I said, several of my relatives and friends did not know about me. On the other hand, I have one closish male friend who talks with a lisp, is limp wristed, dresses in a manner I would never dream of, and has a very effusive and bubbly personality, hates sports, loves theater and soap operas, and a few other stereotypical traits...well he has 3 kids is happily married to a woman, and while I am not 100% certain, by all indications that I am aware of, he is not gay, at all. He is one of my few straight male friends, and while my gaydar is sometimes off, I never once got a ping because of him.

Best advice right now, is just be a friend, open, accepting, tolerant...what every family member (person) should be.

 

[sandcannon]

The best thing you can do is leave him alone. This isn't your business. If he IS gay (again, you don't know) then just be supportive when he decides to do something. Until then, he has clearly stated that he doesn't want your help, and you're out of line for trying to force him.

yeah, I re-read my post just to make sure I didnt give the wrong impression, but I havent tried to "force" him into anything. While no, he hasnt asked for any help, he hasnt not asked either. He likely suspects, without basis, that I'd shun him because its the way of things. Tophers advice seems pretty bang on, and is well presented, so I'll roll with that.

Topher, you seem like you've been where my cousin might be, so I'll take your advice and let him know that the door swings inside for a reason, should he ever need it.

Thanks.

 

[Experiencedguy]

Jesus Christ -- what a fucked up family. Do you realize, that by printing what you just have, if your family members do indeed kill this poor kid, you are guilty of murder in the first degree?? You have just implicated yourself if you don't do something to prevent this, if this thread is ever linked to his death. The worse thing you have ever done to yourself in your life is posting something as dumb as this.

 

[Stella_Omega]

oh for crissake, experienced guy, chill out. You need a little more experience, imo.

 

[Setanta84]

Jesus Christ -- what a fucked up family. Do you realize, that by printing what you just have, if your family members do indeed kill this poor kid, you are guilty of murder in the first degree?? You have just implicated yourself if you don't do something to prevent this, if this thread is ever linked to his death. The worse thing you have ever done to yourself in your life is posting something as dumb as this.

How is he guilty of premeditated murder? At no point in the post does he say something like, "You know what? I better just kill him. He'll be better off that way. I have a plan for how to do this. I also have the means, i.e. a shed with plenty of sharp and blunt objects. And I have the opportunity, due to inviting him over for a game of 'baseball.'" He'd literally have to post something like that for it to be used as evidence against him for that charge.

 

[Experiencedguy]

To those of you who question my logic: He has presumed knowledge that a crime may occur. If, indeed, this crime does take place, he is an accessory before the fact, which carries the same penalty as the crime commited. Therefore, if the penalty is death for those committing the actual crime, he also faces the death penalty (Note: Canada does not have the death penalty, but they do have life in prison). Same as an accessory after the fact. Basic criminal law, which you learn in your first year of criminal law. Although the actual criminal punishment does vary from jurisdictions, it is still a crime. Any lawyers want to prove me right on this?? Or, if I'm wrong, let me know publicly and hang me out to dry.

The real point: People, you are stupid if you don't think about what you post on a public forum!! It can come back and bite you on the ass.

 

[sandcannon]

To those of you who question my logic: He has presumed knowledge that a crime may occur. If, indeed, this crime does take place, he is an accessory before the fact, which carries the same penalty as the crime commited. Therefore, if the penalty is death for those committing the actual crime, he also faces the death penalty (Note: Canada does not have the death penalty, but they do have life in prison). Same as an accessory after the fact. Basic criminal law, which you learn in your first year of criminal law. Although the actual criminal punishment does vary from jurisdictions, it is still a crime. Any lawyers want to prove me right on this?? Or, if I'm wrong, let me know publicly and hang me out to dry.

The real point: People, you are stupid if you don't think about what you post on a public forum!! It can come back and bite you on the ass.

Yeah, except the parts where I've already stated:

1. A desire to protect him
2. Pre existing plans to safeguard him from said deadly beating.
3. Overall disagreement with such a beating being necessary, a good idea, or a good thing.

I do see what you're saying, but this isnt a circumstance in which what you're saying would apply.

Besides, I'd likely go to prison for the revenge I would likely carry out if I failed to protect him, to which I would happily plead guilty for. He's family, I dont care what the old school parts of my family think, as I couldnt give a good goddamn about homosexuality.

 

[Chrissi]

To those of you who question my logic: He has presumed knowledge that a crime may occur. If, indeed, this crime does take place, he is an accessory before the fact, which carries the same penalty as the crime commited. Therefore, if the penalty is death for those committing the actual crime, he also faces the death penalty (Note: Canada does not have the death penalty, but they do have life in prison). Same as an accessory after the fact. Basic criminal law, which you learn in your first year of criminal law. Although the actual criminal punishment does vary from jurisdictions, it is still a crime. Any lawyers want to prove me right on this?? Or, if I'm wrong, let me know publicly and hang me out to dry.

The real point: People, you are stupid if you don't think about what you post on a public forum!! It can come back and bite you on the ass.

Step away from the crime drama, that is not basic criminal law. You must have missed a few classes.

Accessory before requires actual knowledge of an actual crime AND intent to participate or aid and abet the principal. "Presumed" knowledge, a "guess," a "feeling," even if true, is not enough, it has to be actual knowledge. However, assuming arguendo there is "actual knowledge" then in addition, there must be an some level of participation, or rendering of aid or assistance to the principals, toward the furtherance of this crime. How exactly is that happening here?
Basically, none of the above elements are present here and ALL elements must be present for the crime to be proved.

Please cut the histrionics and leave the legal advice to the experts.

On a side note, by your logic:
Assume you have just cashed your paycheck at your bank. You have left the teller window and are just exiting the doorway to the bank when suddenly a black SUV comes to a screeching halt in front of the bank, and out hops three men in black, faces covered in masks, and all holding guns. They are rushing toward you and the bank doorway, of which you are still holding open. You fear a bank robbery. In rush the 3 armed masked people, who you are still holding the door for. As soon as they pass, you run home, but despite having a cell phone, you do not call 911, or call out to any other person, you are just happy to get away with your cash from your paycheck. You hear shots firing as you are running away. Later that evening you see on the news that indeed your bank was robbed.

Are you an Accessory before the fact?