At last! Someone says something about female circumcision.

[oggbashan]

One of my deceased friends spent several years of her life trying to change the practice of female circumcision in Africa.

It is still barely recognised as a problem.

US envoy speaks out

Og

 

[Guest]

There have been a few threads on this horrific practice in the past, I thought, Og.

I wish they would change the name. It isn't anything remotely resembling male circumcision.

 

[cloudy]

There have been a few threads on this horrific practice in the past, I thought, Og.

I wish they would change the name. It isn't anything remotely resembling male circumcision.

It isn't. It's more like just outright mutilation.

I'm glad someone's speaking out about it.

 

[rgraham666]

I've never understood it. Why is the idea that women are property, and not very valuable property at that, so popular?

 

[Guest]

I've never understood it. Why is the idea that women are property, and not very valuable property at that, so popular?

It's the only way some men can get laid.

 

[rgraham666]

It's the only way some men can get laid.

Pity. A man who needs that to get laid shouldn't.

 

[Guest]

Pity. A man who needs that to get laid shouldn't.

Indeed.

 

[wehstar]

It's not just in Africa it's going on either. I was talking to a midwife in the UK who was saying that they have to watch out for it in pregnant women from a whole host of countries. Apparently the risk of death during childbirth is high.

 

[elfin_odalisque]

It isn't. It's more like just outright mutilation.

I'm glad someone's speaking out about it.

People have been speaking out against it for years. It's not a sexist, property thing, Rob, it's more a religious problem (what isn't?) In large parts of Africa it is believed that a man will die if his penis touches a clitoris.

Please, no-one use the sanitizing tag 'female circumcision'. It is not, and never has been, in any way connected with the claimed health benefits of male circumcision . The correct term is FGM, female genital mutilation, and that's what it is. Apart from the sheer barbarity it creates untold health problems for the women suffering this 'procedure' by untrained people and DIY instruments.

Again, Rob, most of the mutilations are performed by women.

Don't just think of Africa. Despite it being illegal, the practice still takes place in the US, Europe and Australia.

Nothing to do with gender, this is a cause that needs the same galvanization of protest for action as Aids, breast cancer or the like.

Sorry, rant over, but this is such an important issue - for men as well as women.

 

[oggbashan]

Fgm

I know that it is female genital mutilation, not circumcision.

I also know that there have been threads on this before.

What I think is significant is that a US envoy has spoken out against FGM, no matter how mildly. That is a significant breach of diplomatic etiquette, to criticise the internal customs of another country. The speech must have been made with the tacit agreement of the Kenyan authorities.

Perhaps there is hope that Kenya and the US can work together to educate MEN to stop FGM? Although the actual mutilation is usually performed by women, it is men's prejudices that keep the mutilation popular.

The false mythologies ascribed to sex in some parts of Africa are damaging and dangerous. For example, there are still too many who believe that sex with a virgin will cure AIDS.

I hope that this speech is the start of something and not just a one off.

Og

 

[mismused]

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[elfin_odalisque]

mis

A full FGM involves removal of the prepuce and the clitoris. The labia minora are cut away and the majora are sewn together to allow a sort of urinary access. With blunt instruments and no anesthesia this is bad enough without the psychological effect on the, often, ten year old girl.

In a civilized world, this is so not acceptable.

 

[oggbashan]

Effects

One of the minor effects of this practice can be that urination is exquisitely painful - every time. Any man who has had a catheter removed has experienced a small part of that pain.

The body is almost wide open to urinary and vaginal infections that can damage and kill. Pregnancy might be impossible, and any pregnancy of a woman who has been carved about can be even more life-threatening than a normal pregnancy in rural parts of Africa.

This kills women and babies. Why? To protect men's egos.

Og

 

[pellso27]

a real life photo of just that!

http://www.middle-east-info.org/league/somalia/fgm2.jpg

 

[mismused]

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[mismused]

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[Svenskaflicka]

It's not a sexist, property thing, Rob, it's more a religious problem (what isn't?)

You're wrong. The people who perform this mutilation are muslims, christians, and non-religious.

It doesn't say anywhere in anyt holy book that females should be mutilated this way. It's just a sexist thing to make women loose their libido, so that their husbands won't have to worry about being so bad in bed that a) their wives will realise what loosers they are, or b) their wives willwant to have sex with another man.

Imagine suggesting that a man should cut slits in his penis and either insert things to make it fatter or remove things to make it slimmer, all to please the woman's taste in girth of penises! It would be an enormous outcry about violating the rights of men!

This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the fact that men want to control women's sexuality and direct it to suit the men's own wants and needs.

 

[Boxlicker101]

I think the basic idea behind this mutilation we are referring to is to keep girls and women from enjoying sex. Supposedly, this will make her a better wife, because she is less likely to go fooling around. The religious aspect is that it will keep girls from committing the "grievous sin" of masturbating.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Now that's a picture of a prominant clitoris. Now just imaging "digging" one out that is not so prominent. Ouch!

Not to mention that there will be no antiseptic or anesthetic, and only dull impllements used.

 

[Pen_Dragon]

This has nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the fact that men want to control women's sexuality and direct it to suit the men's own wants and needs.

But that's just so... backwards.

I mean, if I wanted to control women's sexuality, I'd try to make them more sensitive, not less so.

Not saying that I want to control women's sexuality of course

 

[SlickTony]

They just say it has to do with religion. Hitherto, that was supposed to make it all right.

If any of these guys who've only experienced women mutilated in this manner ever get to the west and meet women who're not only intact, but fully expect the area to be kissed, licked, etc....I wonder what they must make of it.

 

[Penelope Street]

One of my deceased friends spent several years of her life trying to change the practice of female circumcision in Africa.

It is still barely recognised as a problem.

Og

I was aghast when I moved to Vancouver and discovered certain immigrants had brought the practice with them.

Thank you, Og.

 

[SlickTony]

I was aghast when I moved to Vancouver and discovered certain immigrants had brought the practice with them.

Thank you, Og.

Personally, I think those people ought to have their children removed. But I suppose that would simply drive the practice underground.

 

[Penelope Street]

Personally, I think those people ought to have their children removed. But I suppose that would simply drive the practice underground.

Indeed! The problem as I remember it was that the authorities were looking the other way because they were afraid the mutilators would play the old racism and relgion cards- which, of course, they tried.

 

[Boxlicker101]

Indeed! The problem as I remember it was that the authorities were looking the other way because they were afraid the mutilators would play the old racism and relgion cards- which, of course, they tried.

I don't see how they could ever even try to get away with that. Nobody in the US, regardless of race, religion or national origin, is allowed to mutilate the genitals of their offspring.

At the same time, if they feel strongly enough, they might take their daughters back to their native lands, to have them mutilated there. That would probably be illegal also, but it would still be a fait accompli.