Ask a Poet

[Senna Jawa]

Now I'm trying to think of things I'd like to ask a poet.

Like, why is the sky blue?

That's physics.

Or, what was I thinking, majoring in literature?

bj

You were not (but majoring--yes).

Regards,

 

[unpredictablebijou]

That's physics.

I'm hearing now that the sky isn't even blue. So I'm all bewildered.

You were not (but majoring--yes).

Regards,

I'm quite sure I was thinking something. Just can't remember what it was.

It must have been, 'golly, I sure would like to spend ten years making less than a manager at McDonalds teaching people how to write and speak in their native tongue, and end up running a jewelry store.'

Yeah, that's it.

bj

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Has this become a chat thread already?

Don't get huffy. I'm just saying that the other threads became sidetracked in much the same way. Someone makes a point. Another person comments. Someone else relates... and so on..

Though, I do see a huge benefit in keeping certain threads on target, how precise do we need to be?

Anyway, I actually do have a question for a poet. I've just been curious about this. What is the oldest form(s) of poetry? Anyone know?

 

[champagne1982]

God, make comments but sometimes I want to read small or big blog entries without wading through a bunch of flirt and whatever that goes on and on and has nothing to do with anything in the thread. Chat but don't clutter it so bad that you can't find a blog entry.

I figured I'd just write what I thought a lot of other people were thinking. I just believe that, like published poetry, once a thread is given up to the public then the only things that should be controlled on it would be those posts which the Literotica management considers inappropriate, illegal or viral hotlinks. Any other policing of the thread would be self-moderated as such through concensus and/or shaming those who step out of line back into the appropriate boundaries.

Consensus in this case would be the general approval of the PoBo community of moderation on those threads that serve a particular purpose. I simply thought the one thread for dumping off topic comments was sufficient. I guess I was wrong... lala. ♫☺☼♪♥ No harm, no foul.

 

[champagne1982]

Has this become a chat thread already?

Don't get huffy. I'm just saying that the other threads became sidetracked in much the same way. Someone makes a point. Another person comments. Someone else relates... and so on..

Though, I do see a huge benefit in keeping certain threads on target, how precise do we need to be?

Anyway, I actually do have a question for a poet. I've just been curious about this. What is the oldest form(s) of poetry? Anyone know?

I would imagine that teaching poems that were part of the oral tradition would be the earliest forms.. mnemonics and song spring to mind.

I googled earliest poem and came up with a Wiki article that points us to The Epic of Gilgamesh as the oldest surviving poem, in cuniform on clay. I feel as confident as the article writer in saying that poetry predates literacy, by a long shot. The Egyptian Book of the Dead could be loosely interpreted as poetry as well, except no one knows what it would sound like if spoken in the original language. Maybe they had rhyming couplets...

 

[Angeline]

Has this become a chat thread already?

Don't get huffy. I'm just saying that the other threads became sidetracked in much the same way. Someone makes a point. Another person comments. Someone else relates... and so on..

Though, I do see a huge benefit in keeping certain threads on target, how precise do we need to be?

Anyway, I actually do have a question for a poet. I've just been curious about this. What is the oldest form(s) of poetry? Anyone know?

Yeah it's a chat thread. It was posted to be a chat thread as well as a question/answer kind of place.

I think we chat in many threads here and that's fine. I also think we need to keep some threads pretty free of chat so we can find poems or critique easily. And I'm not huffy, I'm fine with all this though I think I've ruffled a few feathers. When I came here the forum was pretty new, but the people who started it (Eve, among others) were all still around and I think we're following the way the forum was set up. For example, the late smithpeter, my favorite poet here ever and a wonderful guy, was very adament that the passion and writing live threads should be poetry only. So in that case I feel like I'm trying to follow his wishes.

 

[WickedEve]

I figured I'd just write what I thought a lot of other people were thinking. I just believe that, like published poetry, once a thread is given up to the public then the only things that should be controlled on it would be those posts which the Literotica management considers inappropriate, illegal or viral hotlinks. Any other policing of the thread would be self-moderated as such through concensus and/or shaming those who step out of line back into the appropriate boundaries.

Consensus in this case would be the general approval of the PoBo community of moderation on those threads that serve a particular purpose. I simply thought the one thread for dumping off topic comments was sufficient. I guess I was wrong... lala. ♫☺☼♪♥ No harm, no foul.

Well, I guess you were wrong.

 

[champagne1982]

Well, I guess you were wrong.

I hate that. Being wrong, y'know. This is a problem that makes arguments and discussions carry on far longer than the subject warrants around me. <le sigh> I try to blurt then move on, sometimes that bone is far too tasty.

 

[sassynyc]

Was it Twilight Zone where there was a hairy man on the wing of a plane tearing lumps off it? That has haunted me for years

That's my favorite episode. That, and the one where a pretty girl is in an accident and has to be bandaged up. When the bandages are removed, she's looked at as some monstrosity. She's in a paralel universe, where everyone looks like pigs, thus pretty is the new ugly. Freaky, indeed.

 

[sassynyc]

Who told you the sky is blue?

And do you ever wonder if alien sightings aren't really aliens but earthlings from long long long ago who were a thousands times more advanced than we are now, and they got out just before a big natural catastrophe (they saw a comet coming), but they left no evidence behind that could really verify they ever existed, and they just pass through their old neighborhood once in a while? Or they are the distant future us and they zip and slip in and out of narrow creases?

No no we are a vast experiment into interspecies breeding and the creator has a weird sense of humour I mean to say who in their right minds would try to breed us with Men? There is a parallel universe where some poor souls are being forced into the same experiment in reverse

As South Park explains it, we (humanity and earth) are a reality show spawned by an alien tv network. If our ratings drop, we get cancelled, pronto.

 

[hmmnmm]

That's my favorite episode. That, and the one where a pretty girl is in an accident and has to be bandaged up. When the bandages are removed, she's looked at as some monstrosity. She's in a paralel universe, where everyone looks like pigs, thus pretty is the new ugly. Freaky, indeed.

purest unparalleled incomparable timeless anachronistic genius

another that sticks with me is the one where a couple ends up in a cage, like for an alien zoo, or something like that.

 

[unpredictablebijou]

That's my favorite episode. That, and the one where a pretty girl is in an accident and has to be bandaged up. When the bandages are removed, she's looked at as some monstrosity. She's in a paralel universe, where everyone looks like pigs, thus pretty is the new ugly. Freaky, indeed.

Trivia queen, married to TWO sci-fi geeks, steps in. That one is called "Eye of the Beholder" and is probably one of the five most famous Twilight Zone episodes.

yup. *nods* speculation has it that not only was that a commentary on physical beauty standards, it was also a rather radical statement about the McCarthy anti-communist era, and nearly got Serling canned.

trivia queen, signing off...

bj

 

[murphy13]

Hi. I was wondering if you could take a look at a poem isubmitted in 2003. It's title Gifts and I'm Murphy 13. i am happy to follow whatever rules as far as having my work discussed. Let me know.

thanks

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

Hi. I was wondering if you could take a look at a poem isubmitted in 2003. It's title Gifts and I'm Murphy 13. i am happy to follow whatever rules as far as having my work discussed. Let me know.

thanks

Just out of curiosity...
what does the "13" signify?

 

[LadynStFreknBed]

I would imagine that teaching poems that were part of the oral tradition would be the earliest forms.. mnemonics and song spring to mind.

I googled earliest poem and came up with a Wiki article that points us to The Epic of Gilgamesh as the oldest surviving poem, in cuniform on clay. I feel as confident as the article writer in saying that poetry predates literacy, by a long shot. The Egyptian Book of the Dead could be loosely interpreted as poetry as well, except no one knows what it would sound like if spoken in the original language. Maybe they had rhyming couplets...

Thank you, champ!
(Though I'm not in the habit of trusting Wiki.)

 

[champagne1982]

Thank you, champ!
(Though I'm not in the habit of trusting Wiki.)

I'm pretty sure there's supporting references to the Gilgamesh info.. the rest I came up with on my own .

Night.

 

[Tzara]

Thank you, champ!
(Though I'm not in the habit of trusting Wiki.)

This page at Washington State University (part of their World Civilizations course material) dates the Sumerian language tablets Champie is referring to to about 2000 BCE, which is way old.

Your original question was about form, though. I'm not sure an epic like Gilgamesh is what you would really call a form.

Sappho wrote in a particular stanzaic form, but I'm not sure that would be considered a "form poem." Perhaps Equinoxe or BJ could comment on that, as I think both of them have some knowledge of Sappho's poetry.

As for more specific forms, the sonnet dates from the 13th century, as does the triolet. The ghazal is apparently earlier--12th century or so.

But then forms change over time. Apparently one of the first appearances of the format of the limerick dates from the 13th century, written in Latin by Thomas Aquinas, of all people. The theme was somewhat different than the typical modern limerick, however.

I would think that various oriental forms would be much earlier, but again the question is what exactly is meant by "form poem."

 

[Equinoxe]

Has this become a chat thread already?

Don't get huffy. I'm just saying that the other threads became sidetracked in much the same way. Someone makes a point. Another person comments. Someone else relates... and so on..

Though, I do see a huge benefit in keeping certain threads on target, how precise do we need to be?

Anyway, I actually do have a question for a poet. I've just been curious about this. What is the oldest form(s) of poetry? Anyone know?

I would imagine that teaching poems that were part of the oral tradition would be the earliest forms.. mnemonics and song spring to mind.

I googled earliest poem and came up with a Wiki article that points us to The Epic of Gilgamesh as the oldest surviving poem, in cuniform on clay. I feel as confident as the article writer in saying that poetry predates literacy, by a long shot. The Egyptian Book of the Dead could be loosely interpreted as poetry as well, except no one knows what it would sound like if spoken in the original language. Maybe they had rhyming couplets...

I agree, poetry is certainly older than literacy, and in some sense the earliest poetic 'form' could probably be said to be song. Words for poem and song are interchangeable in many languages and it is known that poetry in ancient times was generally sung.

In any case, ancient poetry tended not to have strict form, like a sonnet or a ghazal; certainly there was nothing that specified the length, metre, and rhyme scheme (but rhyme does not seem to have been a standard feature of Western poetry until rather late anyway).

 

[Equinoxe]

Sappho wrote in a particular stanzaic form, but I'm not sure that would be considered a "form poem." Perhaps Equinoxe or BJ could comment on that, as I think both of them have some knowledge of Sappho's poetry.

She often, but not always, wrote in a particular stanza form (three lines of dactyl, dactyl, trochee, dactyl, dactyl followed by a fourth line of trochee, dactyl), but there doesn't seem to have been any limit on the length of the poem overall—but then, it is worth noting that only four of her poems survive remotely intact and only one is complete (which actually makes her one of the best preserved Ancient Greek poets).

Regarding oriental forms, the earliest extant poetry, such as in the Shi Jing (dating back about 3000 years), was rather formless in nature. I suppose the first true form in Chinese poetry was jintishi, or the various types thereof, which became fully developed by the Tang Dynasty period—they have regulated line lengths, rhyme schemes, tonal patterns, rhetorical structures, and, in most forms, overall lengths. Japanese poetry was generally formalised in the late 7th century, establishing tanka and choka (which, like the poetic forms of Sappho, has no particular length) by around 700.

 

[murphy13]

I wish the 13 meant something interesting but it's a number that I can remember. What did you think it might signify?

 

[UnderYourSpell]

That's my favorite episode. That, and the one where a pretty girl is in an accident and has to be bandaged up. When the bandages are removed, she's looked at as some monstrosity. She's in a paralel universe, where everyone looks like pigs, thus pretty is the new ugly. Freaky, indeed.

Was there one where two young people were ostracised for being unbearably ugly and in the end ran away together and that's when you see they are very goodlooking by our standards ?

Hi. I was wondering if you could take a look at a poem isubmitted in 2003. It's title Gifts and I'm Murphy 13. i am happy to follow whatever rules as far as having my work discussed. Let me know.

thanks

How do I find something that far back you guys?

 

[murphy13]

Was there one where two young people were ostracised for being unbearably ugly and in the end ran away together and that's when you see they are very goodlooking by our standards ?



How do I find something that far back you guys?

It;s in the erotic poetry section and the title is "Gifts" and Murphy 13 is the author.
Thanks

 

[champagne1982]

It;s in the erotic poetry section and the title is "Gifts" and Murphy 13 is the author.
Thanks

Gifts by murphy13.

I see you have two early comments from jthserra and annaswirls, two very talented literotica poets. What would you like us to do exactly. Are you requesting general public comments, constructive feedback or indepth critique? Sometimes all you need to do is invest a little feedback from yourself on other poets' works and then reciprocation kicks in.

I think you should write and post some newer poems so that your submissions page sees more traffic, the key to being read sometimes isn't to draw us to an older piece but to post a newer work on your index page and get read by the active members of the Literotica Poetry Community.

By the by, that's a fine poem.

 

[UnderYourSpell]

Why do we get random itches?

 

[unpredictablebijou]

Why do we get random itches?

Random itches mean that an angel is having kinky thoughts about you.

bj