Ask a MtF TG a question

[stickygirl]

This is probably a dumb question, but what is the difference between Gender Queer and Non-binary? I have looked up the definitions of both, but I am struggling to understand the distinction.

Oh - you and your difficult questions!!
I'm sure there are others more conversant with the terminology because I've been somewhat selfish by only viewing these terms through my very subjective lens.

I would say.... that one is a flag and the other a pointer placing them in a societal/sociological sense. Non-binary to me comes with a *shrug* of indifference as though we are saying "pfft - I'm non binary so don't pin me down" OR "I'm really not sure about Rowan's status but they're non-binary" - it's a catchall term.

Gender Queer in my experience tends to be a flag descriptor used by people who are generally outspoken about their beliefs on gender and kinda demonstrative too. This is going to be a massive generalisation, but GQs will often dress goth, punk, piercings, inks.

When I used to spend time on Reddit, the GQ subs were full of angry gender-political posts with a lot of policing going on. I used to go to the Gender Fluid sub because the convos were more chilled.

Overall, I think they have been terms that young people have latched onto as they struggle with their identity. As a result the users can be prickly about their gender so, if you find yourself in a discussion, then ask how they describe themselves or else you might provoke a defensive reaction.... y'know

 

[MColton84]

Overall, I think they have been terms that young people have latched onto as they struggle with their identity. As a result the users can be prickly about their gender so, if you find yourself in a discussion, then ask how they describe themselves or else you might provoke a defensive reaction.... y'know

Thanks, that makes sense. My son is very intune with these things, and me being behind the times often makes for some tense situations. Thank you for the opportunity to ask these questions, without feeling like an intolerant dinosaur.

 

[timreh]

This is probably a dumb question, but what is the difference between Gender Queer and Non-binary? I have looked up the definitions of both, but I am struggling to understand the distinction.

I'm gender queer / gender fluid.

I am not non-binary.

My non-binary friends do not feel any attachment to being male or female.

I rarely think of myself as anything that's not male or female. Sometimes I'm feeling female in body, and sometimes I'm feeling semi-male in body. Sometimes I'm feeling ambivalent about my body.

Sometimes I'm feeling female in gender / activity / presentation, and other times I know my gender / activity / presentation is more typical of how males are viewed. Sometimes I'm feeling androgynous in presentation.

 

[AlexBailey]

This is probably a dumb question, but what is the difference between Gender Queer and Non-binary? I have looked up the definitions of both, but I am struggling to understand the distinction.

I use 'queer', 'non-binary', 'gender-queer', and 'gender-fluid', pretty interchangeably for myself, it mostly depends on the situation. I don't make any issue out of it in daily life, and it rarely comes up in conversation.



I'm fifty years old and before I heard those terms I often felt very dysphoric and out of place. I'm definitely male but a lot of my energy is femme, so much so that before I grew facial hair people often assumed I was a girl even if I was dressed in jeans and a sweatshirt.

I feel inbetween male and female- somewhere along a spectrum that is not consistent - 'fluid'

I used to just think of myself as bi-sexual, but that's not the whole picture. When I was an 'LGB' activist in my twenties I never felt like I quite fit in. My girlfriend identified as a lesbian and did not consider herself bi regardless of the fact that I'm not trans. It was very confusing at times. The first time I heard the term 'non-binary' about twenty years ago it really resonated with me. It literally means not strictly one or the other.

The term 'queer' has changed meaning to me since I was a kid. Until recently I thought of it specifically as homosexual and I mostly only heard it used derogitorily -- there are many people who still use it that way, especially from mine and my parent's generation. I feel like it's been newly claimed, or maybe reclaimed. 'Queer' literally means 'different'. I like that, and it's what I use in casual conversation.




If the conversation ever came up with my parents, or someone who shared their views, I would say I'm NB. If I'm talking to someone who knows the difference I say GQ, or if the conversation is more specific; GF.

I don't care what pronouns people use for me -- however someone is inspired is fine.

 

[coati]

I started being sexually active with other people during the early 1970s. At that time, it seemed like all of society's labels for men and women who were not exclusively straight and gender-rigid were demeaning and mean-spirited.

The dissonance between the negative societal conditioning and the joyous intimacy I actually experienced was disturbing, but love and intimacy easily won that personal battle. That's just how love is. Both my partner and I have a rich history of intimate experience, and we don't bother to label any of it. We just apply this experience to our daily lives.

At least one of the more negative labels (queer) was later co-opted by the LGBTQ movement. Most lesbians I met during my university days in the early 70s accepted that term, even if society put a negative spin on it.

The social movements of the 60s and 70s brought all these terms into the mainstream for a much more open discussion. Some people are still freaking out about that discussion, but they tend to be the same ones who are obsessed with other fears and phobias.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks both.

My grandmother used to use the word queer for any number of things including a scandalised version it as gay. Out lesbians adopted the word to throw back as a challenge 'what ya gonna do about it?' attitude.

Gay is coming back into younger mainstream with a number of meanings first gay = crap "Urgh that's so gay!" but some people are using it in its original sense as in joyous. It's difficult to keep but I normally have students around to keep me up to speed. It's quite a good way to place people date-wise for eg. UK people using "sick" meaning "good" are from 20 - 25 ( and often male ). I hate the term but that's half the idea.

As I've declared before I'm bi-pan-aro for sexuality and binary trans with some flexibility for gender ...also aspie to confuse things further... also hot but y'know.

 

[AlexBailey]

Pan-aro? How does that work?

Lol.

 

[stickygirl]

Pan-aro? How does that work?

Lol.

Oh! Ooops my bad... You knew I meant demi-pan didntcha?! I could say biro-pan but I'm trying to use pencils where I can these days

 

[AlexBailey]

Oh! Ooops my bad... You knew I meant demi-pan didntcha?! I could say biro-pan but I'm trying to use pencils where I can these days

Lol. You lost me.

What is biro-pan? I looked it up and Google returned biro-pen as most results -- then your reference to using pencils... I'm so confused, but some would already say that's obvious.

 

[stickygirl]

Lol. You lost me.

What is biro-pan? I looked it up and Google returned biro-pen as most results -- then your reference to using pencils... I'm so confused, but some would already say that's obvious.

Hehe! biromantic is much the same as panromantic but more bi than pan.

https://brooksandkirk.co.uk/assessor/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/simples.jpeg

 

[AlexBailey]

As I've declared before I'm bi-pan-aro for sexuality and binary trans with some flexibility for gender ...also aspie to confuse things further... also hot but y'know.

Okay, let's see how I'm doing with reading your labels.

bi-pan-aro for sexuality = you're into males or females, not so much in between, but you are mostly aromantic? Does that mean you generally stay away from sexual encounters or that you are into sex but you just don't fall in love?

binary-trans with some flexibility for gender You are trans-female but you still identify somewhat with both m and f?

And aspie meaning on the Aspergers' spectrum?


And also hot well... yeah!

 

[MsNatalie99]

I feel bad for not being able to follow, but I am intrigued by how indepth it all is. It makes me wonder where I sit on this.

 

[stickygirl]

I feel bad for not being able to follow, but I am intrigued by how indepth it all is. It makes me wonder where I sit on this.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/869affa8d622a45d7842aa53b683605e/042876f4e814fc20-b8/s540x810/5941a3978b98aa6b568ea41e36a1470b42922faa.jpg

 

[MsNatalie99]

https://64.media.tumblr.com/869affa8d622a45d7842aa53b683605e/042876f4e814fc20-b8/s540x810/5941a3978b98aa6b568ea41e36a1470b42922faa.jpg

Truer words have not been spoken.

 

[timreh]

I feel bad for not being able to follow, but I am intrigued by how indepth it all is. It makes me wonder where I sit on this.

I think something that you may want to keep in mind, where you are on the spectrum today may not be where you feel you are 6 months or 6 years from now.

For myself, and most of my LGBTQ+ friends, finding the first "label" that fit was the key. After that it was simply a case of morphing into other labels as we found where we felt most at-home.

I latched onto Trans as my gateway label. But as time and experience progressed I felt trans was too limiting, too constricting. So I started exploring how I felt, and then looked at the words used within the community and found the ones that fit me better.

At this point I feel gender queer / gender fluid / trans femme / sapiosexual / pansexual are the words that best describe me.

 

[MsNatalie99]

I think something that you may want to keep in mind, where you are on the spectrum today may not be where you feel you are 6 months or 6 years from now.

For myself, and most of my LGBTQ+ friends, finding the first "label" that fit was the key. After that it was simply a case of morphing into other labels as we found where we felt most at-home.

I latched onto Trans as my gateway label. But as time and experience progressed I felt trans was too limiting, too constricting. So I started exploring how I felt, and then looked at the words used within the community and found the ones that fit me better.

At this point I feel gender queer / gender fluid / trans femme / sapiosexual / pansexual are the words that best describe me.

I get that. I have already grown so much since I moved to Virginia and started on this thread. Labels are interesting. They free you, giving a name to your identity. They are also constricting. With a label, there is rules, ones that I don't always abide in. I am still looking for my starting point in the spectrum, but at least I don't have to look alone anymore.

 

[stickygirl]

I get that. I have already grown so much since I moved to Virginia and started on this thread. Labels are interesting. They free you, giving a name to your identity. They are also constricting. With a label, there is rules, ones that I don't always abide in. I am still looking for my starting point in the spectrum, but at least I don't have to look alone anymore.

Labels have their place but they're really only shorthand for a longer conversation. I'd be surprised to hear anyone describe themselves as 100% GQ - I'd be more inclined to nod in agreement, suspecting that they would probably modify their views in time.

In science we come up with a hypothesis - a label if you will. Then you test it with experiments and observations. The whole purpose is to reject, modify or accept the original idea.... but you never close the door to newer ideas. Often if you refuse to change or listen, but cling to the original label or idea out of stubborness or fear, then it can be tough to finally accept the need to change because your pride is hurt. But that doesn't mean you were wrong, it just means you had trouble letting go.

Same with sexuality and gender. How can you describe yourself when you don't have an objective view?

This isn't totally relevant, but whenever I think about identity in this way I think Clara Oswald in Dr Who. So I'll throw this in - for fun only. If you're not familiar with the back story it may leave you scratching your head!! Plus Jenna Coleman... any excuse

https://youtu.be/epc-Z974eiQ

 

[MsNatalie99]

In science we come up with a hypothesis - a label if you will. Then you test it with experiments and observations. The whole purpose is to reject, modify or accept the original idea.... but you never close the door to newer ideas. Often if you refuse to change or listen, but cling to the original label or idea out of stubborness or fear, then it can be tough to finally accept the need to change because your pride is hurt. But that doesn't mean you were wrong, it just means you had trouble letting go.

Same with sexuality and gender. How can you describe yourself when you don't have an objective view?

This isn't totally relevant, but whenever I think about identity in this way I think Clara Oswald in Dr Who. So I'll throw this in - for fun only. If you're not familiar with the back story it may leave you scratching your head!! Plus Jenna Coleman... any excuse

https://youtu.be/epc-Z974eiQ

I hear you, although he was my least favorite Doctor. I was probably one of the few who was in love with Christopher Eccleston. So hot.

I see your point on the importance of labels. I just struggle with them.

 

[timreh]

Labels have their place but they're really only shorthand for a longer conversation.

Exactly. Labels save us time, allow us to communicate basic information quickly and have it likely to be understood.

Am I just like another sapio person? Nope. Am I just like another gender queer person? Nope.

But by using those common terms the conversation can quickly move forward to the more interesting / intricate parts of a dialogue.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Exactly. Labels save us time, allow us to communicate basic information quickly and have it likely to be understood.

Am I just like another sapio person? Nope. Am I just like another gender queer person? Nope.

But by using those common terms the conversation can quickly move forward to the more interesting / intricate parts of a dialogue.

You and stix are both right. At least in the sense of outside conversation, how we explain our identity to others. I was only saying that such labels can feel like chains when we turn them inward. Doing so puts us is a box, like a plant being transplanted in a pot, and can limit our growth. Labels have value. Always have. But I'm a peacock, I gotta fly.

 

[stickygirl]

1. https://64.media.tumblr.com/3ecd09423bf7b279dcbe908acf514c5c/tumblr_o9qt3sFJoB1r3c2bbo3_r1_500.gifv
2. https://64.media.tumblr.com/c9c786ec1ca4176613c016058267b1dd/tumblr_o9qt3sFJoB1r3c2bbo1_r1_500.gifv
3. https://64.media.tumblr.com/e9dfd458266163a54ee34c35b47e86e5/tumblr_o9qt3sFJoB1r3c2bbo2_r1_500.gifv
4. https://64.media.tumblr.com/f6be2fcb7d0896771026e511bc0151e7/tumblr_o9qt3sFJoB1r3c2bbo4_r8_500.gifv

Aspie brain at work - not logical - wait, switching to innuendo mode - Oooh, you mean?
This is pretty much a summary of my brain operating 'at work' = an inability to connect social and work related topics or discussions out of context.

We are neurodiverse and we are the upgrades, please keep us away from stairs or unannounced humorous situations​

 

[coati]

We are neurodiverse and we are the upgrades, please keep us away from stairs or unannounced humorous situations​

And use emojis to indicate when sarcasm is being conveyed.

 

[stickygirl]

And use emojis to indicate when sarcasm is being conveyed.

Quite so! I'm ok with Lit mostly because I treat it as my Matrix Training Program for neurotypical behaviour. Mostly I'm good in real life too, because I've become so good at masking/bluffing that even I have trouble figuring out if what I just said was a learned bluff response or actually what I thought! Bluff response - that was a Blade Runner thing

But that ^^ sequence is perfect. That's how we trip up, when something comes up, particularly in a work setting where we do a facepalm "Waat?"

PS I had to read your post three times before I realised you weren't actually being sarcastic to me. Not your problem, but I realised I did that.

 

[MsNatalie99]

Quite so! I'm ok with Lit mostly because I treat it as my Matrix Training Program for neurotypical behaviour. Mostly I'm good in real life too, because I've become so good at masking/bluffing that even I have trouble figuring out if what I just said was a learned bluff response or actually what I thought! Bluff response - that was a Blade Runner thing

Forgive me but I had to ask about the blade runner reference. My friends son was diagnosed with aspergers when he was 3. I was told that it's harder to diagnose it in girls than in boys. Anyway, I was wondering, my friends son doesn't react very well to sarcasm but love slapstick and puns. Is that an aspergers thing, of is he maybe feigning amusement for my benefit? I didn't want to ask my friend for fear of sounding like "what's wrong with your kid?".

 

[coati]

If your friends and associates learn from you what you are dealing with, that should make things easier. I know it's made it easier for me to understand where you are coming from. Some folks are so non-communicative that everybody around them is confused.

Generally, I find that people who are aware of their emotions are better at describing their inner world, and these are mostly women, or guys who are not rigidly ruled by gender roles.

I know a few guys who seem like they are lost on their own island. With the pandemic, I've been grateful to have confidantes whom I can talk to on the phone during the past year.