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stickygirl said:
Wooo - cool Coati - I was only using some of my UK irony!! :rose: :kiss: This whole thing about divided by a common language x

Totally agree with the Brexit thing - lunacy on a serving of crumbly Chesire cheese. The stupidist thing now is that the whole country is doing a 'stiff upper lip' and pretending that we actually meant to leave, despite the fact we didn't.
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Sorry, having a rough month. The politics over here got even worse when Trump paraded around with the Brexit advocate. Xenophobia has become an international hallmark in the so-called western world.

Damn, I can't even take a joke...
 
We all have good days and bad days, phases that we go through and, despite my best efforts, my own subjective reactions end up “in print”. Maybe some would support my more outspoken blurts, others simply shrink away or others, like your good self, are mortified that they have inadvertently caused offense?
I have a big mouth at times, my emotions swing like a fairground ride. I do get angry at some threads and posts, but then I’ll try to see things from another persons’ perspective, take a few deep breaths and sign off for a day or two without making comments that I might regret.
I am still trying to unravel my emotions about shemale porn and part of my problem is that when something pushes all the wrong buttons, it repels me: nothing kills feeling sexy like anger. It’s my problem and I’m not going to push my views into a discussion or a thread when it would be clearly antagonistic.
It surely goes without my saying that I am frightened by the aggressive sexualization of trans women when they are reduced to ‘things’ and not people. I know some regular women feel the same way, so I’m not being paranoid. But then our desire for sex is tempered by the mood of the moment: I’ve had raging sex and I’ve had tender moments too and there should be room for both. I suppose I need to understand that porn works the same way and we do kiss our mothers with those lips, or cuddle an infant with the same arms that hung onto a sweaty back.
I need to remember that.
So thank you for your post :rose:
Hopefully we can both be wiser and continue to respect and love people all of the time and fuck their brains out as and when it is appropriate!
 
"People who fetishize trans women are not our allies"

I watch trans porn, and I get aroused by it. I also watch other sorts of porn and get aroused by that as well, but I know that it usually doesn't represent how real people act, react, interact, behave or have sex in real life. I know a lot of cisgender people so I have references I can check the reality of those fantasy scenarios against. Most of us don't have that check when it applies to trans people. It requires an effort to educate ourselves and understand trans people's reality, and that it's not the same as the fictions porn presents. I think the increasing visibility of trans people is a good thing, because it lets us see the real people, as people.

Thanks, Sticky <3
 
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BradBigBrain said:
What do you think of a cis male playing a TG lady in a major TV show?

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/25/02/31/25023192ab907351073bae57a28a12f6.jpg

Walton Goggins in Sons of Anarchy
Click to expand...
Ridiculous, insulting and wrong.
I don't care how good the writing or acting, it encourages the idea that being trans is an act and that trans women are just men.
That insidious message far outweighs any benefit from airing trans topics in the media. In years to come these films will be seen with embarrassment and shock.
 
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stickygirl said:
Ridiculous, insulting and wrong.
I don't care how good the writing or acting, it encourages the idea that being trans is an act and that trans women are just men.
That insidious message far outweighs any benefit from airing trans topics in the media. In years to come these films will be seen with embarrassment and shock.
Click to expand...

It's like John Wayne as Genghis Khan or Alec Guiness as Prince Feisal
http://www.theshiznit.co.uk/media/News/johnwayne-art.jpghttps://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/6438466_f260.jpg

Or Emma Stone as Allison Ng in Aloha!
http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/emma-stone-aloha-whitewashing-asian-character-comments__oPt.jpg

I think it's ridiculous that Hollywood cannot learn from its past miscasting mistakes And I agree with you that in years to come it will be seen as a huge embarrassment.
 
haurni said:
"People who fetishize trans women are not our allies"

I watch trans porn, and I get aroused by it. I also watch other sorts of porn and get aroused by that as well, but I know that it usually doesn't represent how real people act, react, interact, behave or have sex in real life. I know a lot of cisgender people so I have references I can check the reality of those fantasy scenarios against. Most of us don't have that check when it applies to trans people. It requires an effort to educate ourselves and understand trans people's reality, and that it's not the same as the fictions porn presents. I think the increasing visibility of trans people is a good thing, because it lets us see the real people, as people.

Thanks, Sticky <3
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Wow, what a brilliant article - I am not alone. Thank you for finding it!

You know, the only safe way to judge if someone is an ally is if they at no time express an interest in either sex or dating. It might mean an opportunity to meet someone genuine is lost, but actually the most common way decent relationships are formed is outside of bars or dating sites. They happen at work, or at your sports club or maybe a friend of a friend.
I'd have to echo what the writer said about genitals, because I get far fewer random PMs now I'm post op. I can't say it's entirely that, because I think people see my posts and know I don't play ( often ) or push myself that way. I think some litsters get frightened by the number of posts you've made, which is quite silly.
Anyway - bus to catch. Laters x
 
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stickygirl said:
Ridiculous, insulting and wrong.
I don't care how good the writing or acting, it encourages the idea that being trans is an act and that trans women are just men.
That insidious message far outweighs any benefit from airing trans topics in the media. In years to come these films will be seen with embarrassment and shock.
Click to expand...

...plus, there are trans women actors who could do with the work! And it's not like there's a shortage of roles open to cis men, compared to those available to trans women, so this is reducing the options for people who don't have many to start with.

BradBigBrain said:
It's like John Wayne as Genghis Khan or Alec Guiness as Prince Feisal
http://www.theshiznit.co.uk/media/News/johnwayne-art.jpghttps://usercontent1.hubstatic.com/6438466_f260.jpg

Or Emma Stone as Allison Ng in Aloha!
http://i.perezhilton.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/emma-stone-aloha-whitewashing-asian-character-comments__oPt.jpg

I think it's ridiculous that Hollywood cannot learn from its past miscasting mistakes And I agree with you that in years to come it will be seen as a huge embarrassment.
Click to expand...

Or Tilda Swinton as a Tibetan mystic.

Tropic Thunder took the piss out of this sort of thing:
https://youtu.be/SwkCXz_Kohs?t=2m37s

(Context: RDJ is an overzealous white Australian method actor who got his skin darkened to play the main black character. Alpa is not very happy about this.)
 
stickygirl said:
Ridiculous, insulting and wrong.
I don't care how good the writing or acting, it encourages the idea that being trans is an act and that trans women are just men.
That insidious message far outweighs any benefit from airing trans topics in the media. In years to come these films will be seen with embarrassment and shock.
Click to expand...

Ok I wasn't sure whether to input on this topic or not, but in the end decided that there may be no other person who is willing to add a different view to the debate.
I am also aware that my viewpoint is complicated by the fact that I still do not feel comfortable on any place on the gender spectrum, and have not since the 70s, but feel more inclined to feel I am TG rather than TV.

As I hope Stickygirl will agree, I am an honest, decent, and respectful person. and hope people realise I offer my comments below in a respectful way and wish to offend no one.

I approach this subject from a different angle, having just completed a british film, in which the character I play is transgender, though that actually has little significance in the film itself, it was just the part was written for a specific TG actress friend of the director , who dropped out due to health issues just as filming began. I normally work on stage and although I have appeared in music videos and small parts in two other films, I was very reticient to take over the role when the director who I had known since the early 80s approached me. One of the reasons I was approached was due to the amount of dialogue the character had in the film, far too much for anybody to learn and rehearse in the time available, but the director felt I was capable of improvising the vast majority of it as that is how I work on stage.
It is worth mentioning that the shooting schedule could not be delayed, the only option would have been to cancel, which would have both cost a lot of money that a small production could not afford and also that the rest of the cast and crew would be layed off and get paid nothing, something that in the current climate would have been devastating for them.
Even so, initially I did not feel comfortable in taking the part on, and I decided before I made any decision to take advice from others. I spent a very long week, discussing the matter with my bestie who fully transitioned in 1982 and with the members of two TG support groups I work with and also a few TG members whose opinions I respect from TVCHIX.
All the people I spoke too, urged me to take on the part, and some of the points that they came up with I list below.

The role I was playing was in essence female, the fact my character may have been male at birth was irrelevant, the fact that at some point in her life my character had transitioned , was not relevant to the plot, apart from her wishing she could bear children.
That many who identify as TG, do not make any physical alterations to their bodies, and live happily outwardly as female while retaining the male form they were born with.
That the idea that to appear on screen, a person should have had sufficient surgery to wipe out any male characteristics, and become dolly-fied was unrepresentative of the experience that they have. Those who I consulted who are the same age as my character and me, ie 50ish all felt their male origins still showed and felt it was realistic if mine did too.
They also thought I would not just be a man in a frock, they felt I could do the role justice and that I could portray the character with respect.
None of them wanted a cis female to play the role as they felt that was reinforcing the idea that a number of feminists have that only cis women are really women.
That this was not the same as actors who fake their ethnicity to take on roles that becomes blatantly offensive to the minorities concerned. I was not pretending to be something that I could never be ie black or Asian etc, whereas I may be a 50 something white TG individual who is just in denial.
Many other points were put forward all in support of me taking the role on, and in the end, I did, and in the end myself and the director worked hard to ensure that when a number of TG friends visited the set that they approved of what they saw and how I portrayed the part.

before I end I want to address a couple of other comments that were raised.

Firstly to those who say I was taking work from other TG actresses, this is simply not true, in the UK there are not many in the industry at all, many who do prefer to work in the theatre rather than on film as then there is no permament public record of their physical changes as they progress through the transition process. This reason was given by 2 other TG actresses who were approached before me. Others do not wish to play roles in which the character is recognised as TG, they prefer to go for roles where they are in straight competition with cis actresses. I took no one's job, instead my participation meant other people kept their job.

Secondly, you are acting the character, not the gender status of the person. something which in my case is ambigious anyway, I frequently get asked how far I am on my transitioning journey, by others who have already transitioned. I am not a transvestite pretending to be a woman , either in real life or on film. I am just me.

I am realistic enough to know that not everyone will agree with my decision to take on the role. as I said earlier I myself was apprehensive about it and needed convincing to take it on. In the end all I could do was my best, and follow the advice of those in the transgender community who had urged me to do it.
Now its done, I am proud of what I did, I will not be embarrassed now or in the future, I stand by my decision, and those who have seen the footage that is now being edited tell me I made the right choice and to hold my head up high.

If anything the whole process led me further along in my thinking to realise than I myself are just in denial over my own gender status. The same thought process that led me to turn down a role in the AbFab movie, as I did not wish to be seen as a man in drag.

Hopefully in 200 years time, someone , somewhere will find the film at the bottom of a box, and will watch the film, find it entertaining and laugh either their tits or bollocks off at the dialogue I improvised. While not giving a damn about the gender of the person perfoming the lines.

Love, Light and respect NIS :rose::kiss:
 
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You've made some excellent points Silky and I'm really grateful for your insight. I don't think you needed to agonise over playing that role, though it is entirely in your character to do so, because your knowledge of trans issues (forgive the expression) is from bottom-up, not like the headline grabbing 'names' who go off and do a crash course to "soak up the whole trans thing" for "real integrity". I'm thinking of Eddie Redmayne, a very talented actor, who had to find trans people to learn from for a few months. You've have trans friends you've known for years and there's a difference. It's a difference more than just principle.

The subject made it into a few articles online and even the BBC ran a piece linking to a YouTube vid by Jen Richards .

You're right, that in a few years perhaps society can progress to a point where a cis-gender man playing the role in the Danish Girl raises no eyebrows or that the integrity of a trans person is not judged by their genitals, but that's the point - they do now. Whilst there is so much hate in the media in the USA then the Ruffalo choice to cast his buddy Matt Bomer in a trans role, is tactless and unhelpful in the context of the bigger conversation that's going on. Once their film is released and duly awarded Emmys and Oscars ( because Hollywood is truly sensitive and compassionate :rolleyes: ) then Bomer can pack away his character along with the heels and frocks and move on. You can't move on: you are who you are. No one is going to slap you on the back in a restaurant and say "Hey, you got some balls playing that freak's role - geddit, balls man hahahaha." Because I'm pretty sure that's happened to Bomer already.

Genitals aren't supposed to matter, gender should be acknowledged as a fiction, but how many regular people in the street have the faintest idea of those concepts, let alone support them?

So how can we moralise over who should and shouldn't play the roles in the latest fad of film makers, who are tapping into the 'trans thing'? It is a fad and I can't help but imagine those massively creative people blowing marijuana smoke rings into the sky from their hot tub, shaking their head and whispering "I have this totally crazy idea for a film, k. You know, like, trans ya…?" Or should the roles only be played by people who have been insulted in the street, or beaten up, or thrown out of their home? Does being abused grant someone ownership or rights to play a film role? Of course not. But how-about a society that doesn't beat up and murder its trans folk in the first place? The minute that happens, they can cast as many cis-men into women's roles as they like.

I think living in the bubble of the LGBTQ community or simply being trans, falsely normalises our language and the concepts that we hold dear. We say that it doesn't matter if a person has had surgery or not, and we all nod in agreement - it doesn't matter. But using that context, and feeling obliged to be respectful of our community when we comment on mainstream films, can handicap our language and muddy our argument. To tackle the shortcomings of Hollywood, we have to use their language and take the fight to them. For now we have to say "No, you should only cast trans people in trans roles". We have yet to have our Guess Who's Coming to Dinner or Mockingbird moment - maybe your film will be it? Be sure and post a link when it appears, because I want bragging rights on knowing the star, well, at least I've exchange chats with her online..;)
 
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Riveting Screenplay!

Sticky,

The visual images and dialog you came up with in the third and fifth paragraphs of your last post were the stuff of another screenplay. Thank you for making my Saturday-- you are such an entertaining blogger.

Coati
 
The thing I like most about Stickygirl is her brain.
And maybe her legs, I'd kind of like to lick them
 
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The outstanding comedy actor emmy went to Jeffrey Tambor, who plays a transgender woman in the Amazon series Transparent, for the second year in a row.

Accepting the award, Tambor encouraged the industry to offer more opportunities to the trans community.

"I would not be unhappy were I the last cisgender male to play a transgender female on television. We have work to do," he said.
 
I spotted this on Tumblr and added the words 'cuz being naked with your body is awesome'
https://67.media.tumblr.com/cdb955f265636964514ad44669ef7278/tumblr_obqv1091tz1u8em02o1_540.jpg

Sometimes it takes my breath away: to be able to look at myself. I never don't smile. All those years of anxiety make me appreciate what I have infinitely more.
Think about it
Your body IS you, sure your mind is your mouthpiece but nothing touches this ^^.
I get asked 'but if gender weren't an issue, would you have had surgery?' Fair question but now I can say 'I love me the way I am, wouldn't change a thing' :):):)
 
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stickygirl said:
Sometimes it takes my breath away: to be able to look at myself. I never don't smile. All those years of anxiety make me appreciate what I have infinitely more.
Think about it
Your body IS you, sure your mind is your mouthpiece but nothing touches this ^^.
I get asked 'but if gender weren't an issue, would you have had surgery?' Fair question but now I can say 'I love me the way I am, wouldn't change a thing' :):):)
Click to expand...

Good for you!!!

http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg167/iniondia/sig%20pics/applause.gif
 
stickygirl said:
Over the years, I've recommended a few books, so here they are in one long list
Fiction
Golden Boy, Abigail Tarttelin***
Some LGBTQI novels can feel formulaic, as though the author felt bound to make acknowledgements of what is politically correct, but Tarttelin has woven her obvious depth of knowledge of the subject around entirely credible characters with an emotional documentary that leave us wiser and more empathetic to the gender spectrum.****
Click to expand...

I've had this book on my kindle app for a while now and I am just getting around to reading it. It's good so far....and it's an interesting read in the way that it is not formulaic at all. It's a great character(s) study and it really helps in understanding Intersex people as one individual and the struggles that Max (the main character) is faced with.
 
BradBigBrain said:
I've had this book on my kindle app for a while now and I am just getting around to reading it. It's good so far....and it's an interesting read in the way that it is not formulaic at all. It's a great character(s) study and it really helps in understanding Intersex people as one individual and the struggles that Max (the main character) is faced with.
Click to expand...
Great - you'll turning the pages in exasperation: will Max speak up or not?!
 
... and I thought government was supposed to take the lead when it came to social welfare? Amazing. Amazing that, if I were American, I would place more trust in my employer that I would the state government
https://www.theguardian.com/sustainable-business/2016/oct/01/north-carolina-hb2-law-transgender-issues-corporate-businesses-protest
but then business understands reputation. It is not about fairness for the sake of it, but the big picture, that so many small-minded politicos can quite grasp
 
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