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[Messier82]

Two favourites of mine there SG: Kate Beckinsale and Jessica Ennis-Hill. The first classically gorgeous, the second because of her athletic physique, and she seems like a genuinely nice person too.

I've no idea who the others are.

 

[Gorza]

The school-uniform report is another of those things where people try to get it right but get it wrong. It's not difficult: you declare a range of clothes acceptable uniform for all, and skirt or trousers are the options. I was a student in Oxford, and they've changed the sub-fusc so it's a series of non-gendered items to be worn on special occasions. It used to be that women were obliged to wear black tights, black skirts, a black ribbon round the collars of their white shirts, and a black Canterbury cap. Now women can wear the motarboard, replace that silly ribbon with a black or white bowtie, or wear black trousers. Trans issues were the headline behind the change, but many cis women have taken advantage of the rule change. Maybe it's another way that trans recognition is a feminist issue.

 

[stickygirl]

...
Similarly look at the shape of men on antique Chinese and japenese artwork. Stereotypical ' sexual' male characteristics are not as we think in a modern western world. If you look at mean, many are not so strapping through shoulders and slim hipped.
I find body shapes interesting, and often beautiful in their diversity.

Me too - even cuddly men have their beauty

Two favourites of mine there SG: Kate Beckinsale and Jessica Ennis-Hill. The first classically gorgeous, the second because of her athletic physique, and she seems like a genuinely nice person too.

I've no idea who the others are.

I've edited in names for your edification

The school-uniform report is another of those things where people try to get it right but get it wrong. It's not difficult: you declare a range of clothes acceptable uniform for all, and skirt or trousers are the options. I was a student in Oxford, and they've changed the sub-fusc so it's a series of non-gendered items to be worn on special occasions. It used to be that women were obliged to wear black tights, black skirts, a black ribbon round the collars of their white shirts, and a black Canterbury cap. Now women can wear the motarboard, replace that silly ribbon with a black or white bowtie, or wear black trousers. Trans issues were the headline behind the change, but many cis women have taken advantage of the rule change. Maybe it's another way that trans recognition is a feminist issue.

Exactly! We're on the same side as cis-women and if some of the haters would give us a chance, there is a lot we can bring to the discussion. For starters, we have the inside story on men!
The changes in the school mentioned earlier maybe wouldn't have happened so quickly if there was not a trans issue to address ( no pun intended ). We're shaking things up and both sexes/genders can benefit from that: you have nothing to lose but stereotypes

 

[Bramblethorn]

Uniforms have helped me report crime and see crime reach justice in court more than once: personally I have recorded a silly but very unpleasant incident of young men getting to happy at university viewings and behaving abysmally on the train ( not in uniforms actually, but carrying their school bags) and a particularly vehement but not physical homophobic verbal assault, remarkably, having my ipad on me let me record it and take it to the head master and email copies to relevant authorities. I'm not opposed to non uniform, but they really do have some plus points.

They also can save others who feel difficulty in expression, or have finacial difficulty

All good points!

Thanks for the clarification SG, seems Headmaster Cairns is a smart cookie, I guess this kind of 'joined up thinking' is what you get when 'go private'.

I did all my schooling in the private system; I can only speak for one school in Australia, but my experience was hugely variable.

There were great teachers there; my first/second-grade teacher was fantastic and we're still friends several decades later. But some were useless (we had to help our year 12 physics teacher understand the concepts he was trying to teach to us) and some downright nasty. The worst bullying I ever got at school was from teachers. One lady in particular tried to punish me for winning a prize in a national academic competition, then changed the rules for a school prize to stop me from winning that one; I still don't know what I did to earn that.

 

[dutchrain]

If anyone here has a basically or even rudimentary understanding of Dutch, look up "Hij is een zij" a wonderful series about young (some very young!) transgender people.

The title is telling everything about the way the series is made: Hij=he is=is een=a zij=she. He is a she, which works all the ways, he could have been born a she, he could be a she born as a he.

It is a mix of interviews and chats, with the participants and their family (mostly parents) and documentary pieces about the lives of the participants, and some stuff the participants made themselves for Facebook and such, like documenting how their voices change from week to week as they started to take hormones.

There are are some very touching scenes, like a young man flinching as his mom uses 'she" while talking about him with the interviewer, putting up a brave smile immediately after she used the wrong gender, his mother immediately looking apologetic at him.

In the second series are also some 'funny' scenes, where people answer questions (FAQs written on a slip of paper which they take out off a bowl) like "When did you decide to be transgender?" Answer, given with a most ernest face: "Well, there was a piece of paper in a bag of potato chips once, and on it was written: "You aren't a boy but a girl." So yeah, I had no choice then, I had to get my sister's clothes and run outside wearing them best as I could."

The episodes are aired between 8 and 10PM.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks Rainey
...and if you don't speak Dutch then there's THIS!!
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCw2Mg0PoxZkAHAzDiabWr9A

Honest to god, you have to watch this. At LAST - real issues, real people in a watchable form. And give it loads of likes, because it deserves to be made into a proper show

Here's their website

 

[stickygirl]

Here's a good article addressing the misinformation and over-reaction of commentators on the spotlight being cast on the apparent 'epidemic' of transgender kids.
Mostly it comes down to understanding your kids and not imposing your fears on them: they'll tell you soon enough who they are. As ever, all that parents need to do is be supportive ( and chill the fuck down )

 

[stickygirl]

Is this thread too factual and boring? Is it helpful to have a resource like this?

I'm conscious that I frighten people off by being too focused on gender politics etc

 

[coati]

I think the political stuff is important, but I really love it when you answer questions related to your inner life, or just talk from your feminine perspective. You are a very interesting and lovable person, and when you speak extemporaneously, even about seemingly mundane stuff, it provides a very helpful perspective for anyone who faces challenges, which includes all of us.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks Coati

 

[haurni]

Is this thread too factual and boring?

Absolutely not.

Is it helpful to have a resource like this?

Very much.

I'm conscious that I frighten people off by being too focused on gender politics etc

Maybe, but people need to learn about such things. Lack of education simply perpetuates the status quo. Those who want to understand will stick around in hopes of learning something.

 

[stickygirl]

Thanks H
Ok, so here's the thing, since you've asked for the nitty.
Depression.
I said. Yep, hand up - I've been suffering really bad with black dog and it was only when I watched a YTuber I follow, who has been going through the same thing post-op, that I felt I could admit to it. In saying it, the first thing I am conscious of is the haters who will crow 'well what did you expect, did you think a surgeon's knife would cure your crazy blah, blah … ' ( yea, I've read those elsewhere ). My YT chum has been out dating loads and every time has come up against the same problems when she came to say to guys that she is trans. She found two reactions: one that they wanted to act dirty and not respect her and two, that they got kinda weirded out by it. I've been avoiding dating for precisely that reason - I knew that would happen to me and I don't feel strong enough to deal with it.

I knew long before surgery that it was never going to a magic wand: I was trans before and I still am - I know this. All the same, I have a sense of guilt that people ( my Mum ) has been to all that expense for nothing. She'd never ever say that and I ought not to think it, but I do.

All the same, I did think the op would give me more confidence. In many ways it has in a purely introspective way: I am so much happier with my reflection. So then I feel guilty that that is not enough, that I still have to justify my existence to the rest of the world and shouting 'look, I've got a vagina' doesn't count for much.

I think it takes time, more time to find the right perspective. Maybe, when the physical healing is done, there is a longer period of adjustment mentally and emotionally? I'm going with that. I'm not going to put pressure on myself to start getting into 'the game' and I'm going to do my best not to be disappointed that I don't.

I'd love to hear from a girl on this, but it's not something I can easily talk about with cis-gender women, because it sounds so lame.

So there - you've got it. Not exactly a bundle of fun, but I still have a sense of humour even if I'm only pretending.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[coati]

I'd love to hear from a girl on this, but it's not something I can easily talk about with cis-gender women, because it sounds so lame.

So there - you've got it. Not exactly a bundle of fun, but I still have a sense of humour even if I'm only pretending.

I'm not a girl, but I can tell you this much-- your honesty is so appreciated. I hope you get some help with regard to depression. Getting help got me through some tough times, and I learned to experience and share my feelings, as you are doing now.

I really like what you said about giving yourself more time. Your intelligence, compassion, and honesty are such compelling traits. Those are the traits that are the basis for my closest relationships.

Love and best wishes from Coati

 

[4yourpleasureiam]

Sticky Girl I wish they were real but this is all I can send, these poor roses and my best wishes for a whom I perceive to be a lovely person. Hugs

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Messier82]

Thanks H
Ok, so here's the thing, since you've asked for the nitty.
Depression.

I'd be more surprised if you hadn't struggled with depression. What you've done takes a great deal more mental-effort than most people might need to muster during their lives; effort involves strain which can feedback into negative feelings. I'm sure you've been through plenty of counselling or similar sessions during your time so nothing anyone can say on these forums is likely to be new.

I'm not going to say much about my personal current difficulties (which have been going on for the past few years) but for what it's worth, here is my $0.02:

What you said about a sense of humour is key, even if you're faking it you can still derive benefit because "we become what we believe we are" (someone else's words, not mine)

Much of what you say about the problems of dating and 'having a past' apply equally to many, many people, myself included. We all need a personal 'strategy' for relationships, and feeling too fragile to embark on one is every bit as viable as any other option (applies very much to me).

We all feel our problems are unique, and they are, at least to us, after all, we only have this one life (as far as we know). But history, art and literature can be a great solace/inspiration when we discover other people have expressed in their own words the feelings we think are so particularly unique. We feel we're alone, but when we strip away the specifics of our individual situations we may find that we are intimately linked with many who have gone before us ("There's nothing new under the Sun").

Like you I felt there was no alternative than to "take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing (hopefully) end them". I find it helpful to contemplate the negative consequences of not taking up the struggle, this makes the difficulties of engaging in the struggle infinitely more bearable. Life is struggle, or as one of my undergrad lecturers defined it in physics terminology: "a finite period of negative entropy". It's not for nothing that Thomas Malthus, Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace all regularly used the phrase Struggle for Existence.

I wouldn't normally invite PMs but if you want to chew the fat over this struggle for existence, feel free.

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[stickygirl]

I'm not a girl, but I can tell you this much-- your honesty is so appreciated. I hope you get some help with regard to depression.
Love and best wishes from Coati

TY x

Sticky Girl I wish they were real but this is all I can send, these poor roses and my best wishes for a whom I perceive to be a lovely person. Hugs

I was thinking in the middle of last night more on this.

I don't know if I will ever expand truely to think beyond male female and something else, however hard I try. Primarily I think of people as 'person'. I think of you as femLe because that's who you are. That's if I think beyond 'stickygirl'. The trans bit is still so alien to me, even though I am trying to learn, that I just don't think of it as an identity. I don't know how I make that mental leap to other identification for those that want it, for example. I know, because we have discussed it, that its fine, right and appropriate that I think of you as you are, a woman. And so you have doubt, fear, worry and baggage. We all take baggage on holiday....don't let yours stop you getting on a plane, I bet we all know cis gendered women it stops too.

I know people say ignorance causes a lot of fear and resentment. Well, I have no resentment or anger or hostility, or negative emotion, ( or really much other than a desire to live in a better world for all people) but I do hate that my fumbling makes things worse. And I hate that my ignorance leaves me fumbling.

Even in your down days you are thoughtful and considerate. What a person you are to deal with questions from fumblers like me, huh? .

Sorry if I'm keeping you awake too! I keep myself awake but didn't know it was catching.

This isn't so much a trans thing, though it contributes. I've avoided situations where being trans would be a problem... I guess when you're in the middle of an onion, you've no idea how layers you're wrapped in... Sorry, slightly weird analogy. I suppose if I knew what the root of the problem really was, I could fix it: I fix things for a living, I ought be able to fix me too.

I'd be more surprised if you hadn't struggled with depression. What you've done takes a great deal more mental-effort than most people might need to muster during their lives; effort involves strain which can feedback into negative feelings. I'm sure you've been through plenty of counselling or similar sessions during your time so nothing anyone can say on these forums is likely to be new.
-snip-
We all feel our problems are unique, and they are, at least to us, after all, we only have this one life (as far as we know). But history, art and literature can be a great solace/inspiration when we discover other people have expressed in their own words the feelings we think are so particularly unique. We feel we're alone, but when we strip away the specifics of our individual situations we may find that we are intimately linked with many who have gone before us ("There's nothing new under the Sun").

Like you I felt there was no alternative than to "take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing (hopefully) end them". I find it helpful to contemplate the negative consequences of not taking up the struggle, this makes the difficulties of engaging in the struggle infinitely more bearable. Life is struggle, or as one of my undergrad lecturers defined it in physics terminology: "a finite period of negative entropy" . It's not for nothing that Thomas Malthus, Charles Darwin and Alfred Russel Wallace all regularly used the phrase Struggle for Existence.

I wouldn't normally invite PMs but if you want to chew the fat over this struggle for existence, feel free.

Thanks Messier - you've always made thoughtful posts and thanks for the PM invite but I'm out of questions.
What you said is helpful - I'm hungry for different takes on a very old threadbare problem and, as I mentioned before, finding another trans woman with similar problems was a huge relief. Yes, we each have problems specific to our situation and often parallels can be found. If it were an externalised thing then finding parallels is good, but it's more the weariness that accompanies this whole episode… when you wish the thoughts in your head would
just
fucking
stop.
Thank god I have a job - at least there is a routine in that in which I can lose myself. Dreading going home is never a good sign
Maybe I need a cat?
Trans women all play guitar and have a cat, from what I can see. Poor beast - imagine living with me?

I think this is beautifully expressed.

I'd also like to say a word in favour of 'all the normal stuff', eating well, activity and so on. And, I like the antidepressant I take. I was very dubious about it. I did not want it, to feel not like me or spaced out ( I do that naturally ). But...frankly its brilliant. I would like to be off it, simply because I don't like the idea of being on a med like this longterm, but, I'd rather take an anti depressant ...which still allows me a full range of normal emotions, than to feel lost with out a map.

Is it a SSRI?

 

[La damnee elle la licorne]

 

[Messier82]

Thank god I have a job - at least there is a routine in that in which I can lose myself. Dreading going home is never a good sign
Maybe I need a cat?

I can definitely recommend a feline companion, they make a house a home. I've had a few in my time, I can't have one where I'm currently living, but when I've sorted my life out I think I'll definitely be getting another one.

 

[Bramblethorn]

Is this thread too factual and boring? Is it helpful to have a resource like this?

I'm conscious that I frighten people off by being too focused on gender politics etc

I like factual stuff! And I think the length of this thread is evidence that others find it worthwhile.

 

[stickygirl]

I can lose myself in factual stuff

 

[dutchrain]

Hi lovely Sticks,

Crocheting and watching stupid shows (like my big fat gipsy wedding) at the same time helps me to keep my mind from munching the same things over and over and again.

And talks with a skilled person.

And medication, a herbal 'uplifter' and hormones.

Although the last two are meant to keep me from losing myself in the crocheting. Which isn't helped by my youngest 'demanding' her bed throw to be finished before the winter is finished. Kind of contradicting *grins*

Keep linking the articles and all here, Sticks! Keep feeding us the facts. Keep discussing.

And get a cat if you can. And elderly one who will demand you don't change your sleeping position during the night because she wants to lie undisturbed on what ever part of you is the highest in bed. Or a young one who will jump on every toe you move because she is expecting to be entertained throughout the night. And a young one will wake you up very tenderly, she'll be sure not to scratch your chin bloody when she is hungry at three in the morning.

You'll see you'll be thinking (and even saying) "That darned cat!" much more than anything else.

And then she'll lie down on your lap when you eat breakfast, beside your face, on your face when you got back to bed after feeding her, and her satisfied purring will be your reward. But she won't understand your mouth and nose need to free of cat fur. Because she loves the almost constant warm stream of air you are pleasing her with. She'll also help you with the laundry. Because when you leave laundered stuff laying around in a heap before folding or ironing it, she'll sleep on it. So you'll be sure to finish it as soon as it is dry!

Cats are a wonderful gift of nature.

I told you my Kenny broke a little statue my sister gave me because I refused to stop talking on the phone once when she was hungry? The darned cat looked at me, looked at me a bit more intense, stretched her tiny paw out, and … CRACK Maria and Child broke apart on the floor. I refused to stop talking though, taught her lesson I did!

 

[BradBigBrain]

Is this thread too factual and boring? Is it helpful to have a resource like this?

I'm conscious that I frighten people off by being too focused on gender politics etc

I'm just here to be the old white fart in your thread. Hope you're doing well!