As I see it.

[TigerClaw]

In D/s a Dom is saying these are my Hard Limits, Soft Limits and this is what I expect. Expressing what and how he wants to react with the sub.

In the nilla world you run around dating this one, dating that one. Talking, slowly finding out this is the person you dont want to be with though on first glimpse they looked perfect.

Here you have a certain sub or dom you are looking for. Your willing to learn with them or you want experience.

Before you even get started in D/s you have an clearer idea of what it is that you want, will not put up with, want to experiment in.

The nilla world should have some standards like this. Every lifestyle should.

Dont you think?

 

[ghosst_K&H]

i think it's called an engagement

seriously, i agree 100% with you on this.

 

[Netzach]

I don't approach any relationship like that.

I looked for basic compatibility with my submissive, and I found it. I didn't come with a long laundry list, sure I knew he had to be ethical, interesting, kinky, bisexual, and sexy. But these are open things, they aren't hard and fast and I certainly didn't want to clamp down on the form that submissiveness could take.

I think we attract the right people for us, when we're confident and certain in ourselves.

It's a lot like vanilla searching, only with more stringent quirks.

 

[bunny bondage]

the neccessity of communication in bdsm relationships does seem to open up the conversation in other areas of the relationship as well. also, i find that fewer bdsm relationships are expected to be preludes to marriages where as vanilla relationships often come with the whole package of expectations. it seems more common to find people who are training, or just getting experience in bdsm. this, i think, is a healthier attitude towards relationships in general.

 

[TigerClaw]

Hmmmmm

I am looking at it as sharing a lifestyle with a prospective mate. I hope to grow and enjoy similar things with a woman. I am not into a temporary arrangement.

That is what intriqued me about this. The ability to find a match that will have at the very least the possibility of a future based on similar wants and needs verses the nilla arena.

 

[NCShin]

the neccessity of communication in bdsm relationships does seem to open up the conversation in other areas of the relationship as well. also, i find that fewer bdsm relationships are expected to be preludes to marriages where as vanilla relationships often come with the whole package of expectations. it seems more common to find people who are training, or just getting experience in bdsm. this, i think, is a healthier attitude towards relationships in general.

Hrm...I can't agree with this.

I think to say that people who engage in BDSM are not looking for an eventual mate is saying that they are different than anyone else.

I don't think that they are different in anything else other than what they like and enjoy. I think that most people, no matter what type of lifestyle they are into, eventually want to find someone that they can live thier life with.

I don't want to get too personal with you bunny, but I'll hope it's ok since I've obviously gotten this only from what you've posted publicly.

I think you've gotten that opinion based on the patners you choose. From what I have read from you, you tend to be attracted to much older men. The age difference alone is likely prohibative enough for most of these men to consider you a potential wife.

If that is not the reason, it may be that these men are simply not looking, and dating, playing with, (or however you'd phrase it) someone with your youth is safe since it may be assumed that you are not yet ready to settle down with a husband.

 

[Kataklysm]

In D/s a Dom is saying these are my Hard Limits, Soft Limits and this is what I expect. Expressing what and how he wants to react with the sub.

In the nilla world you run around dating this one, dating that one. Talking, slowly finding out this is the person you dont want to be with though on first glimpse they looked perfect.

Here you have a certain sub or dom you are looking for. Your willing to learn with them or you want experience.

Before you even get started in D/s you have an clearer idea of what it is that you want, will not put up with, want to experiment in.

The nilla world should have some standards like this. Every lifestyle should.

Dont you think?

I agree with this totally. If it were that way in the nilla world...I don't know. Maybe there would be more happiness..more content relationships. I know I never said I am loking for a, b and c and I expect d, e and f from you in return. Not the way I'm doing it in my D/s relationship.

 

[Krinaia]

Needs and wants change, evolve as we grow - or so I assume. Being young and inexperienced. I can't say what the best way to go about things is... but I try to approach things with with a few safe limits in choosing(age, distance) .. and I try to make friends first. If I can find someone I like, then there is a possibility it will bloom into love. If I can trust him with my submission and respect him, then it has a possibilty it will bloom into something even deeper. If nothing else, I have one more new friend and companion.

Somethings I will tell you right off, others I will let wait until I have gotten to know you much better. Some things will come only with my complete submission. And they will all range in their degree of personalness (is that a word?)

 

[TigerClaw]

I have learned so much lately.

This applies to more then just this one thread.

As bad as some turns are in your life I have learned so much from every bad period in my life.

This growth and experience I have acheived recently is one of those grateful times.

Just as with anything else to each his/her own. I feel stronger about listening to a sub then when I first posted. I feel talking about your hard limits, soft limits and things you enjoy doing early on is very important. I was warned that this is not agreed upon by many people.

I can still be a Dom with out taking away her opinion. I have a set number of hard limits and some set rules. I want a woman who is compatible with them.

I want D/s in my life.

I want to experience some B&D, S&M to various degrees.

Being able to say heh I want this, this and this and enjoy these or want to do these is refreshing. If you dont want to talk about it early on I do understand.

We can still talk, but if someone comes along that matches I will be talking to her to get to know her.

 

[Kajira Callista]

Re: Re: As I see it.

I agree with this totally. If it were that way in the nilla world...I don't know. Maybe there would be more happiness..more content relationships. I know I never said I am loking for a, b and c and I expect d, e and f from you in return. Not the way I'm doing it in my D/s relationship.

Its not like that in the nilla word because ppl dont choose to be open and honest to each other. They choose to keep a certain amount of themselves to themselves. They cant or wont handle the intensity that comes with all this..nor do they accept that being this way is a good thing. If it were that way then this wouldnt be called an alternative lifestlye. Its not accepted as a way of life because for the most part its way out of most ppl comfort zone. Too bad they dont really know what they are missing eh?

 

[Kataklysm]

Re: Re: Re: As I see it.

Its not like that in the nilla word because ppl dont choose to be open and honest to each other. They choose to keep a certain amount of themselves to themselves. They cant or wont handle the intensity that comes with all this..nor do they accept that being this way is a good thing. If it were that way then this wouldnt be called an alternative lifestlye. Its not accepted as a way of life because for the most part its way out of most ppl comfort zone. Too bad they dont really know what they are missing eh?

Do you think it is love that stops people from being open and honest? In nilla relationships I mean. I hear this so much. Male friends, guys I work with. That my wife wasn't into sex much before we married. Now that we are I get nothing and I jerk off three times a day..ect..ect. Why is having a sexual relationship with the person you married treated like it's secondary when really it's paramount? And why do people continue to make these wrong choices in a life mate? Every time I ask for an answer it's always Well..I loved her/him. I just fail to see how loving someone equals denial. Purposefully or just a bad match. Forgive my slightly OT rant here. Yes..they really are missing out.

 

[TigerClaw]

Re: Re: Re: Re: As I see it.

Because many women will lay a man to death to get married and then once they have them slow down, limit, control or stop. I am very leary of marrage now. I want it but I am leary.

I have heard and dont understand the concept, that youve taken the woman in but she will say you dont really love me. You dont care, etc.

I think something gets in the way and it is not expressed or not solved and it puts a wedge between them. I have seen this too often also. You actually have reminded me of a very good point.


I hope it is a bad match and not on purpose.

Do you think it is love that stops people from being open and honest? In nilla relationships I mean. I hear this so much. Male friends, guys I work with. That my wife wasn't into sex much before we married. Now that we are I get nothing and I jerk off three times a day..ect..ect. Why is having a sexual relationship with the person you married treated like it's secondary when really it's paramount? And why do people continue to make these wrong choices in a life mate? Every time I ask for an answer it's always Well..I loved her/him. I just fail to see how loving someone equals denial. Purposefully or just a bad match. Forgive my slightly OT rant here. Yes..they really are missing out.

 

[FungiUg]

The nilla world should have some standards like this. Every lifestyle should.

Interesting.

I'm in two minds about this. Firstly, I think much of what makes a great D/s relationship work is the same in the "vanilla" world. That certain "spark", communication, compatibility, etc. So I think in reality, you are no more likely to find the perfect partner in D/s easily than you are in non-D/s.

On the other side of my brain, the whole thing of sexual compatibility does raise a question. How many relationships do you know where the partners are sexually mis-matched? If people had a "check-list" of what they like sexually that they went through before they got into a relationhip, it may reduce all of that sexual incompatibility.

So while I like the concept of check-lists that D/s people use, I don't think they make or break a relationship. They just make it easier to have an idea of how compatible people are in one particular area.

 

[Krinaia]

The nilla world should have some standards like this. Every lifestyle should.

When Fungi quoted this... I did a double take. You know, racism, bigotry, homophobia - they all have two sides and opposites. There are blacks that hate whites, whites that hate non-whites, aethists that hate everybody, christans that hate non-christians, and... "vanillas" that hate kinkesters and kinksters that look down their noses at non-kinksters.

Not necessarily saying you hate them. I'm just saying be cautious in throwing around comments like that.

My grandparents have been together 53 years. My parents, 28.

I don't think its the vanilla lifestyle vs. the bdsm lifestyle - I think its our society in general. We're in such a rush to do EVERYTHING. And so willing to take what comes without checking out all the options or reading all the fine print. And we but things we throw away after a few weeks of use. Typewriters - they're still ticking, computers - seesh, we want a new one, a more up to date one, by the time the one we ordered gets to the door. Why wouldn't we, as a society, approach relationships the same way? I don't think the kinkiness is at fault. I think its the general morals and values we've been taught by our parents and by our society. And that we've allowed ourselves to take as common. I've met just as many people in bdsm (online only so far) that have been through many partners or marriages or ownerships - as i have met many married vanillas who have had many partners, marriages, relationships.

My being open and honest isn't because I'm a submissive necessarily. It's because I was encouraged to be so as a child. I was encouraged to question and to think things through and make up my own mind about things. And to value a good friend. That's what has prepared me for an open and honest relationship, and not necessarily my journey into bdsm - although I must say, it gives me the courage to reveal my innermost self more easily.

I think you have to broaden your condsiderations in this regard beyond the world of sex and submission and dominance.

 

[Johnny Mayberry]

This reminds me of the conversations I have had with my slut, and with other people about addicts and mentally ill people. When people hit rock bottom, and are forced to examine themselves, they come out of it better than the average person who has never thought about their actions.

I think the same thing can apply to a BDSM relationship. Since we tend to discuss and work out so many details, we have a better shot than the nillas, who just flail around and hope somethung sticks.

 

[Netzach]

The vanilla people I know don't always have these problems. They're vanilla. They're not repressed. They're not martyrs. They're not scared of sex or scared of each other....sure, some are..but... it doesn't automatically go with the territory.

Nor does my enjoying telling someone what to do mean that I'm immune from any of the aforesaid issues. I find a lot of SM people to have heads deep deep in the sand about their problems, inability to communicate, sexual impasses, etc. Like we are all fully functioning and happy and liberated. Bullshit. We're just closeted more when things aren't working, when Master finds he has no actual authority, when slave suzy sleeps around and when Daddy Donna hits the booze again. It's not good PR and we are worried about impressing everyone else a lot of the time.

Kink isn't a sudden sexual enlightenment for the masses. You feel better being kinky because...you are. If you were not, and someone were urging you to be it would be different. Being able to bend the way you are meant to is a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong. It doesn't mean that if someone doesn't bend that way there's something wrong with them. Or that they've discounted the option because they think it's gross...maybe it's just not for them, like vanilla's not for me.

 

[TigerClaw]

Netzach

Why does kink have to be in the closet? Typically even today kink is looked down on. Hell, you get a nilla not knowing that you have an ice cube and watch the sparks fly.

It seems that certain kinks are making there way into mainstream while others are not. Not all will. Nothing is completely accepted. But the willingness to say ok, your into that but I am not and I understand is a great thing.

No judgements. I know I may not be into everything you are into and we can still talk. Now, get some of my relatives to talk to us. Ha. They'd say

YOU NEED TO BE SAVED !!!!!

 

[Netzach]

We're all going to encounter people who support us and people who don't.

Some vanilla people are cool by me, and some are not. Some kinky people are not down with my agenda and some are.

I choose to surround myself with people who are basically ok with who I am. Not sycophants and buttkissers, but people who will be positive about me and whom I can be positive about....high on the list would be my unalterably vanilla ex, a stellar guy and probably a better communicator with more balls than I ever had.

If it came down to who's gonna help me hide the bodies?

More of the people on my list would be "vanilla" than not.

 

[FungiUg]

A couple of additional comments.

I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find another topic where I say something to the effect that I don't believe there is any such thing as "vanilla". Least wise, not as most D/s people use the term. It's another case of "them and us"... when in fact, there is no separation. We are admittedly at one end of a spectrum, but it's a spectrum inhabited by all humans.

I believe all humans have elements of D/s behavour in their relationships. How can we say people are "vanilla"? The thing I find fascinating is that if you talk to swingers, they will often define non-swingers as "vanilla" also. I'm not a fan of "them and us" distinctions, so I'm not a fan of that term either.

My second comment is about "enligtenment". Many humans explore and discover themselves in many ways -- physically, spiritually, philosophically, mentally, sexually. D/s falls into a couple of those categories. But D/s practitioners are not the only "enlightened" humans on the planet.

Whether enlightened people have beter relationships or not, I have no idea. I personally would suspect no -- I'm way too cynical to expect self-discovery to solve all of the complex issues that make a relationship work or not.