As a gentile American, why should I support Israel?

[renard_ruse]

Roger Hedgecock, national conservative radio host, is doing a week long series of shows from Israel which will no doubt provide listeners with a one sided Israeli far right perspective on the situation in the Holy Land and the Middle East in general.

Now, personally, I have no personal objections to Israel existing, even as a specifically Jewish state, provided rights for minorities are respected. However, I also can't think of any particular reason I (or the US for that matter) should support it in all matters unequivocally, such as its occupation of the West Bank for example. As a generally politically right leaning non-Jewish American I'm never quite clear why I'm supposed to be so emotionally and politically enamored of a state I can't legally immigrate to, rather than balanced and neutral toward both sides.

Can someone help me out with some tangible reasons? I'm not looking to start a debate nor do I have ulterior motives, just want someone to provide me tangible reasons as to why I shouldn't be neutral toward the Holy Land situation (or even why I should care at all).

 

[Lord_Steve]

Roger Hedgecock, national conservative radio host, is doing a week long series of shows from Israel which will no doubt provide listeners with a one sided Israeli far right perspective on the situation in the Holy Land and the Middle East in general.

Now, personally, I have no personal objections to Israel existing, even as a specifically Jewish state, provided rights for minorities are respected. However, I also can't think of any particular reason I (or the US for that matter) should support it in all matters unequivocally, such as its occupation of the West Bank for example. As a generally politically right leaning non-Jewish American I'm never quite clear why I'm supposed to be so emotionally and politically enamored of a state I can't legally immigrate to, rather than balanced and neutral toward both sides.

Can someone help me out with some tangible reasons? I'm not looking to start a debate nor do I have ulterior motives, just want someone to provide me tangible reasons as to why I shouldn't be neutral toward the Holy Land situation (or even why I should care at all).

as a jew, you shouldn't support israel. hth!

 

[unregistered]

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Can someone help me out with some tangible reasons? I'm not looking to start a debate nor do I have ulterior motives, just want someone to provide me tangible reasons as to why I shouldn't be neutral toward the Holy Land situation (or even why I should care at all).

Most common answer given to this question found here

 

[off2bed]

LibLogic answer: If you don't support Israel, you're an anti-semite.

 

[off2bed]

Why can't you emigrate to Israel, by the way?

 

[busybody..]

Roger Hedgecock, national conservative radio host, is doing a week long series of shows from Israel which will no doubt provide listeners with a one sided Israeli far right perspective on the situation in the Holy Land and the Middle East in general.

Now, personally, I have no personal objections to Israel existing, even as a specifically Jewish state, provided rights for minorities are respected. However, I also can't think of any particular reason I (or the US for that matter) should support it in all matters unequivocally, such as its occupation of the West Bank for example. As a generally politically right leaning non-Jewish American I'm never quite clear why I'm supposed to be so emotionally and politically enamored of a state I can't legally immigrate to, rather than balanced and neutral toward both sides.

Can someone help me out with some tangible reasons? I'm not looking to start a debate nor do I have ulterior motives, just want someone to provide me tangible reasons as to why I shouldn't be neutral toward the Holy Land situation (or even why I should care at all).

just curious

what OTHER country have YOU no problem that it EXISTS?

why should there be 57 ISLAMIC CUNTRIES, isnt ONE enough?

provided minority rights are respected? are there ANY CUNTRIES in the ME that the rights are respected, other than Israel?

 

[4est_4est_Gump]

The Jews are alone in the world. If Israel survives, it will be solely because of Jewish efforts. And Jewish resources. Yet at this moment Israel is our only reliable and unconditional ally. We can rely more on Israel than Israel can rely on us.

I have a premonition that will not leave me; as it goes with Israel so will it go with all of us. Should Israel perish the holocaust will be upon us.
Eric Hoffer

 

[busybody..]

anti semitism is the canary in the coal mine

 

[RobDownSouth]

LibLogic answer: If you don't support Israel, you're an anti-semite.

I wouldn't call it "LibLogic", but you are absolutely correct, all too often people who don't support Israel get tagged with the "Anti-Semite" tag immediately.

The Likkud party in Israel, neo-fascist to the core, has become especially adept at applying that moniker to people who disagree with there neocon policies.

 

[phrodeau]

just curious

what OTHER country have YOU no problem that it EXISTS?

why should there be 57 ISLAMIC CUNTRIES, isnt ONE enough?

provided minority rights are respected? are there ANY CUNTRIES in the ME that the rights are respected, other than Israel?

There are not 57 Islamic countries.

The OIC has 57 member states, but that's only if you count Palestine.

 

[Lord_Steve]

LibLogic answer: If you don't support Israel, you're an anti-semite.

do you... not know that most liberals don't support israel? at all? you know, what with our irritating panties-in-a-bunch opposition to human rights abuses.

do you even know what "liberals" believe in or are you just guessing at this point?

 

[sweet_secrets4u]

Supporting Israel is beneficial to both Israel and America. Were would Israel be without American support, and Israel provides America a toe hold in an area that it is a hotbed of unrest be it political, ideological and religious zealotry.

My two cents, though it mightn't be of any value, that's illegal tender here now

 

[KingOrfeo]

If there were just one Islamic country . . . that would be a New Caliphate, stretching from Morocco to Indonesia. Which is just exactly what Osama bin Laden wanted.

 

[phrodeau]

Supporting Israel is beneficial to both Israel and America. Were would Israel be without American support, and Israel provides America a toe hold in an area that it is a hotbed of unrest be it political, ideological and religious zealotry.

My two cents, though it mightn't be of any value, that's illegal tender here now

Jordan is a US ally.

If Israel is a toehold, Jordan is a foothold and Saudi Arabia is a full nelson.

 

[sweet_secrets4u]

Jordan is a US ally.

If Israel is a toehold, Jordan is a foothold and Saudi Arabia is a full nelson.

You Sir are correct to mention Jordan and Saudi Arabia, but unlike those countries, the US dosn't share there intelligence with them on the scale as they do Israel. Nor do they allow access to purchase latest military equipment as they do Israel and Australia included. I remember reading an article on that but that is going back some 3-4 years now. and that was also under the Bush Administration and the Howard government era.

Jordan and Saudi Arabia are also mindful of how they appear to their people in their alliance with the US. Israel embraces the US whole hardheartedly and flaunts it unashamedly.

We really dont give a shit, so long as we whoop the US ass in mock combat

I'll looked for the article i mentioned, but couldn't find it however something older,

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0QZY/is_216/ai_n15947846/

the first few paragraphs lightly touches on what I said above. The article I was talking about was much more in depth and mentioned Israels position as well.

 

[Dazzle1]

Well first it will balance the pro terrorism side that one gets from NPR, Democracy now and other left wing hate groups.

1. They are an ally

2. They are the only true progressive democracy in that part of the world where everyone has the right to pratice their beliefs.

3. It is the moral and right thing to do.

 

[sweepthefloor]

I just puked.

 

[EllieTalbot]

do you... not know that most liberals don't support israel? at all? you know, what with our irritating panties-in-a-bunch opposition to human rights abuses.

Right, because Israel is the worst human rights abuser in the Middle East and must be the primary focus of criticism, and shoulder all the blame for conflict there. [/sarcasm]

Rolling Eyes in Ramallah,
Ellie

 

[fair_warning]

I think the following gives a pretty fair summation of the historical roots of why many US citizens support America's continued meddling in the country previously known as Palestine.

Christian Zionism grows out of a particular theological system called premillennial dispensationalism, which originated in early 19th-century England. The preaching and writings of a renegade Irish clergyman, John Nelson Darby, and a Scottish evangelist, Edward Irving, emphasized the literal and future fulfillment of such teachings as the Rapture, the rise of the Antichrist, the Battle of Armageddon, and the central role that a revived state of Israel would play during the end days. Darby and Irving argued that portions of the books of Daniel, Ezekiel, Zechariah and Revelation predict when Jesus will return and how the final battle of history will take place.

Darby brought these doctrines to the U.S. during eight missionary journeys. They captured the hearts and minds of those who attended Bible and prophecy conferences in the years after the Civil War. Darby’s teachings were featured in the sermons of some of the great preachers of the 1880-1920 period: the evangelists Dwight L. Moody and Billy Sunday; major Presbyterian preachers such as James Brooks; Philadelphia radio preacher Harry B. Ironsides; and Cyrus I. Scofield. Scofield applied Darby’s eschatology to his version of the scriptures and provided an outline of premillennial dispensationalist notations on the text. The Scofield Bible (1909) gave dispensationalist teachings much of their prominence and popularity. It became the Bible version used by most evangelical and fundamentalist Christians for the next 60 years.

Christian Zionists insist that all of historic Palestine -- including all the land west of the Jordan which was occupied by Israel after the 1967 war -- must be under the control of the Jewish people, for they see that as one of the necessary stages prior to the second coming of Jesus. Among their other basis tenets:

• God’s covenant with Israel is eternal, exclusive and will not be abrogated, according to Genesis 12:1-7; 15:4-7; 17:1-8; Leviticus 26:44-45; Deuteronomy 7:7-8.

• The Bible speaks of two distinct and parallel covenants, one between God and Israel, one between God and the church. The latter covenant is superseded by the covenant with Israel. The church is a "mere parenthesis" in God’s plan and as such it will be removed from history during an event called the Rapture (1 Thess. 4:13-17; 5:1-11). At that point, Israel, the nation, will be restored as the primary instrument of God on earth.

• Genesis 12:3 ("I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you") should be interpreted literally -- which leads to maximum political, economic, moral and spiritual support for the modern state of Israel and for all the Jewish people.

• Apocalyptic texts like the Book of Daniel, Zechariah 9-12, Ezekiel 37-8, I Thessalonians 4-5 and the Book of Revelation refer to literal and future events.

• The establishment of the state of Israel, the rebuilding of the Third Temple, the rise of the Antichrist and the buildup of armies poised to attack Israel are among the signs leading to the final eschatological battle and Jesus’ return for his thousand-year reign. The movement looks for the escalating power of satanic forces aligned with the antichrist that will do battle with Israel and its allies as the end draws near. Judgment will befall nations and individuals according to how they "bless Israel."

Christian Zionism has significant support within Protestant fundamentalism, including much of the Southern Baptist Convention and the charismatic, Pentecostal and independent churches. The movement can also be found in the evangelical wings of the mainline Protestant churches (Presbyterian, United Methodist and Lutheran) and to a lesser degree in Roman Catholicism. Its reach is broad, since premillennialist dispensationalist themes are advanced through Christian television, radio and publishing. The National Religious Broadcasters organization, which controls almost 90 percent of religious radio and television in the U.S., is dominated by a Christian Zionist orientation.

The alliance of Christian Zionists and the pro-Israel lobby solidified during the Reagan administration, although it declined somewhat during the first Bush administration and the Clinton years. Clinton’s Israeli ties were with the secular Labor Party, led by Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres, not with the conservative Likud Party. Through this alliance Clinton embraced the Oslo peace accords, which were opposed by Likud and the Christian Zionists because the accords called for reductions, however modest, in the expansion of Jewish settlements and asked that Israel withdraw from a significant portion of the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Gaza Strip.
Donald Wagner.

 

[Lord_Steve]

Right, because Israel is the worst human rights abuser in the Middle East and must be the primary focus of criticism, and shoulder all the blame for conflict there. [/sarcasm]

Rolling Eyes in Ramallah,
Ellie

perhaps you have heard of the phrase "false dichotomy"?

it's not my business to meticulously catalog which country perpetuates the "worst" human rights abuses, the question is whether the United States should be supporting a country which uses military weapons on civilians, bulldozes the houses of innocent people for crimes a family member committed, murders unarmed protesters, and imposes draconian import laws on an already starving and destitute populace.

if the united states were supporting, say, iran militarily and financially, i would say the same thing about them.

unimpressed in uganda,

lord "lord steve" steve

 

[semen4her]

Right, because Israel is the worst human rights abuser in the Middle East and must be the primary focus of criticism, and shoulder all the blame for conflict there. [/sarcasm]

Rolling Eyes in Ramallah,
Ellie

Ahahaaa!

How much $$ has the US given the Jews over the past 20 years or so. (Including weapons)

 

[JohnnySavage]

I've been to Israel a few times; it's a nice place. But I don't care about it any more than any other country. If you are a country and can't stand on your own two feet, you deserve to be taken over. Just ask the American Indians.

The United States shouldn't send/sell military stuff to any other countries. We shouldn't give money to any other countries. We should give some food if we have extra, and we should probably help out when these shit holes get flooded because they live next to the sea in a flood zone.

But basically, the rest of the world should look after itself. We have our own problems here.

 

[Sean Renaud]

I've been to Israel a few times; it's a nice place. But I don't care about it any more than any other country. If you are a country and can't stand on your own two feet, you deserve to be taken over. Just ask the American Indians.

The United States shouldn't send/sell military stuff to any other countries. We shouldn't give money to any other countries. We should give some food if we have extra, and we should probably help out when these shit holes get flooded because they live next to the sea in a flood zone.

But basically, the rest of the world should look after itself. We have our own problems here.

Most of our problems are imaginary however and the reason we give those people money is someone did the math and decided it was cheaper to give them the money now than have to go and unfuck our oil supply later.

 

[Loring2]

There are not 57 Islamic countries.

The OIC has 57 member states, but that's only if you count Palestine.

There are 57 Islamic countries, OIC to the contrary and member states be damned.