Article: Learning how to write

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I like this attitude. I was raised on the rules and basics but also had to read and write a lot. As a child I loved memorizing silly rhymes and songs and even thinking about them (all those Brit expressions I didn't know in the 'Mother Goose' canon). - Perdita

Common sense has much to learn from moonshine It's time English teachers got back to basics - less grammar, more play. by Philip Pullman, The Guardian, Jan. 22, 2005

The report published this week by the University of York on its research into the teaching of grammar will hardly surprise anyone who has thought about the subject. The question being examined was whether instruction in grammar had any effect on pupils' writing. It included the largest systematic review yet of research on this topic; and the conclusion the authors came to was that there was no evidence at all that the teaching of grammar had any beneficial effect on the quality of writing done by pupils.
Needless to say, this goes against common sense. That particular quality of mind, the exclusive property of those on the political right, enables its possessors to know without the trouble of thinking that of course teaching children about syntax and the parts of speech will result in better writing, as well as making them politer, more patriotic and less likely to become pregnant.

For once, however, common sense seems to have been routed by the facts. If we want children to write well, giving them formal instruction in grammar turns out not to be any use; getting them actually writing seems to help a great deal more. Teaching techniques that do work well, the study discovered, are those that include combining short sentences into longer ones, and embedding elements into simple sentences to make them more complex: in other words, using the language to say something.

A word often flourished in this context by the common sense brigade is "basics". It's always seemed curious to me that commentators and journalists - people who write every day and who presumably know something about the practice of putting words on paper - should make such an elementary error as to think that spelling and punctuation and other such surface elements of language are "the basics". These, and deeper features of language such as grammar, are things you can correct at proof stage, at the very last minute, and we all do that very thing, every day. But how can something you can alter or correct at that late point possibly be basic? What's truly basic is something that has to be in place much earlier on: an attitude to the language, to work, to the world itself.

And there are many possible attitudes to take up. There are some that are confident and generous and fruitful, and others that are marked by fear and suspicion and hostility. We instil these attitudes in children by the way we talk to them, or the fact that we don't, and by means of the activities we give them to do, and the environments we create to surround them, and the games and TV programmes and stories we provide them with. The most valuable attitude we can help children adopt - the one that, among other things, helps them to write and read with most fluency and effectiveness and enjoyment - I can best characterise by the word playful.

It begins with nursery rhymes and nonsense poems, with clapping games and finger play and simple songs and picture books. It goes on to consist of fooling about with the stuff the world is made of: with sounds, and with shapes and colours, and with clay and paper and wood and metal, and with language. Fooling about, playing with it, pushing it this way and that, turning it sideways, painting it different colours, looking at it from the back, putting one thing on top of another, asking silly questions, mixing things up, making absurd comparisons, discovering unexpected similarities, making pretty patterns, and all the time saying "Supposing ... I wonder ... What if ... "

The confidence to do this, the happy and open curiosity about the world that results from it, can develop only in an atmosphere free from the drilling and testing and examining and correcting and measuring and ranking in tables that characterises so much of the government's approach, the "common sense" attitude to education.

And the crazy thing is that the common sense brigade think that they're the practical ones, and that approaches like the one I'm advocating here are sentimental moonshine. They could hardly be more wrong. It's when we do this foolish, time-consuming, romantic, quixotic, childlike thing called play that we are most practical, most useful, and most firmly grounded in reality, because the world itself is the most unlikely of places, and it works in the oddest of ways, and we won't make any sense of it by doing what everybody else has done before us. It's when we fool about with the stuff the world is made of that we make the most valuable discoveries, we create the most lasting beauty, we discover the most profound truths. The youngest children can do it, and the greatest artists, the greatest scientists do it all the time. Everything else is proofreading.

Take the national curriculum. The authors of the York study remind us that it lays down that children aged five to seven "should be taught to consider: a) how word choice and order are crucial to meaning, b) the nature and use of nouns, verbs and pronouns" and so on; that children aged seven to 11 "should be taught word classes and the grammatical functions of words, including nouns, adjectives, adverbs, pronouns, prepositions, conjunctions, articles", as well as "the grammar of complex sentences, including clauses, phrases and connectives ... " Think of the age of those children, and weep. It simply doesn't work.

What does work, the York study maintains, is writing in a meaningful context: writing as a practical hands-on craft activity. One of the implications of this is that teachers have to be confident about writing - about play, about delight. Too many are not, because they haven't had to be; and the result is the dismal misery of the "creative writing" drills tested in the Sats, where children are instructed to plan, draft, edit, revise, rewrite, always in the same order, always in the same proportions, always in the same way. If teachers knew something about the joy of fooling about with words, their pupils would write with much greater fluency and effectiveness. Teachers and pupils alike would see that the only reason for writing is to produce something true and beautiful; that they were on the same side, with the teacher as mentor, as editor, not as instructor and measurer, critic and judge.

And they'd see when they looked at a piece of work together that some passages were so good already that they didn't need rewriting, that some parts needed clarifying, others needed to be cut down, others would be more effective in a different order, and so on. They'd see the point of the proofreading, at last; and they'd be ready, because they were interested, to know about subordinate clauses and conjunctions and the rest. The study of grammar is intensely fascinating: but only when we're ready for it.

True education flowers at the point when delight falls in love with responsibility. If you love something, you want to look after it. Common sense has much to learn from moonshine.

· Philip Pullman won the Guardian Children's Book Award for His Dark Materials; his latest book is The Scarecrow and his Servant
 
What a wonderful article!

And, I'd have to agree. Too much is taught in "english" class that is something that could be learned so much easier, and it could be made almost painless compared to the way it's taught now.

How many people despised their english classes? How many would still feel that way if it was taught in a manner the author of the article advocates? We've raised a whole generation who cringe when literature or composition is mentioned, instead of clapping their hands with glee, as it should be.
 
This is why I have always believed Montessouri schooling to be high above other forms of schooling. Montessouri schools teach exactly that way, and it is the best.
 
When I first came to the AH I was overawed by the technical knowledge of the inhabitants. Construction, paragraphing, clauses, verbs (doing words), nouns (naming words) and adjectives (describing words) and all the other paraphernalia.

When I first came to the AH I imagined that these people must be glorious authors, knowing these basic items of English Language and being able, at a glance, to de-construct any sentence I could create.

When I first came to the AH I had as much knowledge of the basics as I do now. None. But I knew I could write.

I eventually found that I could actually write as well as many of the people that could de-construct my flowing prose without having any ability that I could detect, to create anything better (in some cases far worse)

I hated English Language at school, but I loved the way the English language could create any world that I cared to write down.

It took me another 30 years to put away my hatred and embrace my love.
 
gauchecritic said:


I hated English Language at school, but I loved the way the English language could create any world that I cared to write down.

That is brilliant.

Another wonderful article P. thank you.
 
They tried this over here. They had kids writing, and writing a lot, without ever correcting or teaching them grammar or spelling, since teaching them the proper ways of doing things was thought to discourage them and stifle their creativity.

Well, it failed, and it failed miserably. Kids aren't stupid. They know when they don't know how to spell a word, and when their teachers tell them to spell it however they feel it should be spelled, they feel foolish and patronized. This "whole language" approach to writing produced an entire generation of nearly illiterate kids who feel that they've been fucked over by the latest feel-good educational theories, and they're right.

The author also implies that there are only two ways of teaching writing: the good, life-affirming, creative and joyful way, and the bad, brutal, drill-and-test, soul-killing nazi way. That's just ridiculous.

Of course you don't have to be a grammarian to be a writer, any more than you have to be a mechanic to drive a car. But it sure as hell helps.

So I disagree and disagree vehemently. I'm all for more teaching of grammar and spelling in schools, and correcting them in compositions. Those who love to write will gain from it, and for the others, it won't hurt them either.

---dr.M.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
They tried this over here. They had kids writing, and writing a lot, without ever correcting or teaching them grammar or spelling, since teaching them the proper ways of doing things was thought to discourage them and stifle their creativity.

Well, it failed, and it failed miserably. Kids aren't stupid. They know when they don't know how to spell a word, and when their teachers tell them to spell it however they's like to spell it, they feel foolish and patronized. This "whole language" approach to writing produced an entire generation of nearly illiterate kids who feel that they've been fucked over by the latest feel-good educational theories, and they're right.

The author also implies that there are only two ways of teaching writing: the good, life-affirming, creative and joyful way, and the bad, brutal, drill-and-test, soul-killing nazi way. That's just ridiculous.

Of course you don't have to be a grammarian to be a writer, any more than you have to be a mechanic to drive a car. But it sure as hell helps.

So I disagree and disagree vehemently. I'm all for more teaching of grammar and spelling in schools, and correcting them in compositions. Those who love to write will gain from it, and for the others, it won't hurt them either.

---dr.M.

Isn't there room for both?

I don't think an extreme to either side is warranted, but I also think that a lot of the joy of learning, of writing, is stifled in education.

I dunno, may just be me.
 
Pear is on a roll with these writing articles. Another stormer.

Seconded what Gauche said. I didn't get taught the rules and in some cases I don't know as much about the construct of the language as some 7y/o in the current educational system of the 'Literacy Hour' where children learn about nouns and verbs and adjectives. I learned most of the meanings of these terms on Lit, in order to describe stuff I already knew. In order to convey my opinions, I had to learn these names for things that I could do automatically. Because they sounded right.

Give me a sentence and I guarantee I can make it grammatically correct. Not because I know about verbs and adverbs and adjectives. But because I know it's correct.

Interesting just how much New Labour has changed hte educational system. I'm only 20 and already I'm old enough to be talking about 'the way things used to be taught.'

The Earl
 
IMO, I feel that the people currently in charge of our educational system in the states are being paid for a job they are not qualified for, there have been too many changes to make things "better".

Kids need the basics.
They need to know how to spell and write words.
They need to know how to do simple math.

A house is built of wood and stone. Basic materials make-up the structure. The practical thing next is what you need to make it liveable.
The ornamention comes later with paint and metalwork and such, we don't all need Martha Stewart to come and make it right, it's already what it's supposed to be... A house.

Here in Pa. they have tests where the kids have to do math problems, they are graded not on the correct answer, but how they arrived at that answer, they want to know the process.
I know that I don't want little Jimmy or Susie to grow up and work in my bank and handle my money.
 
cloudy said:
Isn't there room for both?

I don't think an extreme to either side is warranted, but I also think that a lot of the joy of learning, of writing, is stifled in education.

I dunno, may just be me.

Of course there's room for both. That's my whole point.

I don't know. I was never discouraged from writing because of grammar lessons. I never said "Damn, I just don't get this subordinate clause stuff. Guess I'll just give up writing." And I suspect most people who write are like me. So I don't think that grammar is the soul-killing evil that he sees it as.

People who want to write are going to write, so why not give them the tools to do the job? And those who aren't interested probably won't be interested no matter how much you have them play around with words.

It would be great if every teacher were gifted enough to encourage this kind of play and joy in language, but I strongly suspect that it's not something you can teach the teachers. It's a gift, and so what this guy is really suggesting is that we make all our teachers into gifted teachers.

Yes, that would be nice. Now how do we go about doing that?

---dr.M.
 
Mab., I get you, and I agree re. the particular system you speak of. But when I think on my strict (Catholic nuns and Latin) education I know it was the reading and writing (and discussion) that taught me more about English and "language" than the drills and sentence parsing.

I don't think that Pullman is prescribing what you've mentioned, but rather the type of basic educational structure and environment that does not stifle to spite its nose (jeez, that just came to me :) ).

I thought Gauche's post joyful. Knowing his writing and thinking (merely from Lit.) causes me to believe an academic would wonder who or what created him, and be in disbelief that it wasn't his schooling. I envy him his lack of grammatical paraphernalia when he writes.

Perdita
 
I understand the good doctor too. I just think there's got to be a happy medium somewhere...maybe we just haven't found it yet.

I know so many people who profess to "hate" reading, and it's sad. I also went through school with the majority despising english class and only doing the minimum amount of work to get by.

It's sad when you think about it. Something that brings so much joy if it's appreciated isn't considered an option for some of these people because they've been taught that it's "difficult", and they miss the wonder of words.
 
dr_mabeuse said:
I don't know. I was never discouraged from writing because of grammar lessons. I never said "Damn, I just don't get this subordinate clause stuff. Guess I'll just give up writing." And I suspect most people who write are like me. So I don't think that grammar is the soul-killing evil that he sees it as.

People who want to write are going to write, so why not give them the tools to do the job? And those who aren't interested probably won't be interested no matter how much you have them play around with words.

I think the problem is not so much teaching grammar as the emphasis on teaching grammar in connection with writing.

I don't remember the specifics of the grammar I was taught in school -- what I do remember is learning to speak the language properly and learning to love the way the language works.

Some people love to write, and some people love to tell stories but could care less about writing them down. Both types need to learn proper grammar, but they need to learn how the language works more.

It took nearly fifty years of reading for me to "learn" how to write, but my guide to "grammar" and punctuation is, and always has been, "does that look right?"
 
It always seemed to me that the need to write comes, hand in hand, with the joy of reading. I used to think it was a shame that high school students weren't required to read some of the greats. I realized they just weren't ready. Not mature and experienced enough to truly gronk (from one of my first inspirations). However, they can be started on the path and, hopefully, they will encounter an author or a book that inspires them.

As far as grammar and spelling, they can only learn so much by example without being shown the inner detail and roots. Spelling and grammar checkers on computer software is no substitute for knowledge.

Communication skills are becoming more important in the information age and they must use their skills for more than writing smut.

Thanx for the article P.
 
I'm with the Doctor on this one, and want to add this:

Yes, most of us learned most of what we know and love from reading and from writing.

And most of us read. And write. And have done from an early age.

And many students don't.

When one reads voraciously from sheer love of the language and the writing, one learns all sorts of things - naturally. One learns just as one would learn all of the niceties of football simply by playing it several games a day, every day, season in and season out. But just as I personally would need some drill and instruction on the basic rules if I was to master it, given that I give the sport little or no time - but YEAH EAGLES! - so do students who do little or no independent reading need the formal drill to help nail down those rules and make them clear.

I agree with Dr. M that it's best to use a mix of whole language and grammar drill - but the drill needs to be there. Otherwise some rules are quite confusing and difficult to figure out on one's own. Take, for instance, the rules about using commas with coordinating conjunctions. Many students absorb the rule that there might need to be a comma, but few will work out on their own that it's a comma when joining two complete sentences and no comma when there are not two complete sentences. Instead, they absorb "sometimes a comma, and it seems like I'm always wrong whether I put one or not." Having some grounding in the basics of grammar - which I think is generally what is meant by "basics," that is not basics of all writing but basics of speaking grammatically - helps make the learning process less confusing and frustrating, especially for those who don't read often and haven't seen a wide variety of usage.

Shanglan
 
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If you want to do anything well, at it's core, it has to be fun. You have to enjoy playing with it, challenging yourself, expanding on what you know of it.

That's the way it was for me with computer programming for many years. Then it became something that had to be done 'properly', 'within the norms'. It stopped being fun. And I left the field.

I was lucky, I learned to read and loved it before I went to school. If I hadn't, I would probably one of the functional illiterates that makes up so much of Western society.

The problem with the way they teach grammar is hinted at in the article when they mention the SATs. That problem is the idea that there is only one way to do things. You are not to go outside the lines.

Where's the fun in that?
 
I'd have to argue that while it's excellent for learning to be fun, there are other lessons broader than grammar to be learned. For instance, the lesson that at times discipline and commitment are needed in order to grow and learn.

Bluntly: it's not all fun. Very little worth achieving is. There's always work involved, and inevitably some of it is less fun than other parts. Learning to balance those is, I think, part of learning how to achieve one's goals.

Shanglan
 
I have to side with Doc on this one, as I went to Catholic school, and by the time I got to public high school I was so far ahead of everyone else in my class it was ridiculous. I was enrolled in senior math (I believe it was ambitiously labelled "geometry" at the time) when I was a freshman, and I actually completed two years of calculus before finishing high school.

That being said, I think my knowledge of grammar came from reading, not writing. I was always a vociferous reader, and growing up reading my mom's spy novels and detective stories gave me an ear to the language. I learned to diagram sentences and whatnot, of course, but the complexities of the lexicon always seemed to me to be far beyond diagrams.

It wasn't until I took Spanish that I learned about intransitive verbs, and future imperfect tenses and all that stuff. Isn't that strange, you need to learn another language to truly comprehend your own?

It was just reading and reading and reading that did it for me ... I knew when something was wrong. I didn't know why, or how, but I knew that the sentence needed to be reworked. That's why still, these things jump out at me ... when I see "we both rubbed our clit's" or "the motorcycle started with it's throaty rumble" I immediately disregard the piece itself, the author, and any interest I ever had in the story.

It's as blaring to me as a neon sign, and I don't understand why other people don't see it. Not because I learned proper grammar as a child, but because I read all those Hardy Boys and Eric Ambler and Robert Ludlum and Agatha Christie books when I was eight years old.
 
i have two reasons why i feel i must comment here.

the first and most important reason is that i have to reach 100 posts so that i can get an avatar. ;)

the other reason is that this is a subject close to my heart. i have found that "correct" grammar and spelling are very important indicators (in britain) of your socioeconomic status. people like me who speak and write in a certain way, the "right" way, are more likely to obtain higher paid jobs.

a friend of mine speaks and writes in a way that would be frowned upon in a school english classroom or in an interview for a management role in a large organisation. but he is bright as a button and extremely articulate, and would do well in that environment, if people could just get over their prejudicial reactions to certain non-standard ways of speaking or spelling.

im sure most people here know that spelling and grammar were not really an issue for chaucer or shakespeare!
 
inkstain said:

a friend of mine speaks and writes in a way that would be frowned upon in a school english classroom or in an interview for a management role in a large organisation. but he is bright as a button and extremely articulate, and would do well in that environment, if people could just get over their prejudicial reactions to certain non-standard ways of speaking or spelling.

I think it's kind of strange that you feel it would be better for the entire world to change to accomodate your friend, rather than vice versa.

That being said, my favorite authors often use punctuation and sentence structure that would make a purist frown, but these guys paid their dues and it's become a matter of style. You can look back at their stuff and see their styles evolving, which is kind of cool.

I don't know. We all have our usage problems. To my dying day I think I'll have to pause in deciding whether to use affect or effect, and further and farther can go fuck themselves. But things like there, their, and they're, or who's and whose, or throwing apostrophes in to make plurals... I mean, those things just have to be mastered. Or else you've got to find someone who knows that stuff to be your proofreader.

---dr.M.
 
Nice thread Mum, you know I will sometimes slightly mangle the english language, prolly cause I'm not english, but also cause it needs mangling, in posts and stuff.

I am like dr.M in that I sometimes wonder WTF to do with certain words and all. When I write a story I try to do it correct, though sometimes I want to yank that lil grammer police guy out of my computer and strangle him. Sometimes I change it 25 ways and it don't work so I go back to my original way and tell him to "ignore and shut the fuck up."

The spelling is something that makes sense to me but I don't want to change the meaning of what I'm trying to say to make the grammar correct.

I will always remember when the cafeteria workers in the elementary schools over here was on strike for more money. There was a big demonstration, I think it was Boston or somewhere, the strikers had lots of supporters and was marching in front of the school hoping that the teachers would not cross their lines and join them.

All the signs said "more pay for cafeteria wokers" and "support the cafeteria wokers" and "Cafeteria wokers deserve more money" and this is an elementary school they are marching in front of.

I was wondering why nobody told them how to spell workers and also if after the strike if they could go sit in the first grade classrooms and learn how to spell. It really threw me as I lost the train of thought as to whether or not they deserved more money as I was laughing, and then sad for them.

Anywho, I know my grammar is not very good, though I read constantly and love it. When I fell in love with reading, the FIRST day they said we could pick ANY book out of the library to read, I realized that reading about subjects I was interested in was FUN. Then my grades in all subjects improved as learning to read faster and comprehend more of what I was reading became easy.

There is some fluke in the top stories section, where one of my stories is the top story, yes its wrong but I'm not gonna complain because I like seeing it there. I was alll worried that when I came to the AH you all would look at my grammar and say "You idiot, thats wrong" but everyone was nice and I learned more and, he, he, maybe one day I will even get it right.
 
I am always suspicious about educational articles in The Guardian. Maybe it is me, but they seem to have a constant libertarian bias against the teaching of grammar.

My parents were taught in the 1910s and 20s. Grammar, parsing, precis etc. were drilled into them (and sometimes beaten into them) at a very early age. School ended at age 14.

My father couldn't split an infinitive if he wanted to.

I was taught at a variety of schools. Grammar was an essential part of the curriculum. My teachers introduced grammar as a tool, as a way to express yourself, as an aid to creative writing. My grammar is not as perfect as my parents' but to them the rules they were taught were sacrosanct. My teachers said in effect: 'These are the rules. You can break them if you want to but you should know that you are breaking them and WHY.'

My wife used to teach French and German. The first term of every new class she had to include the teaching of English Grammar because without that as a base the students had great difficulty learning another language.

During the late 1960s and the 1970s grammar was a taboo word. Expression was all. Grammar and spelling were unimportant. The ideas mattered more. Yet how can you convey ideas without use of language? And if you don't know HOW language works to convey meaning how could you express ideas with any precision? The then Guardian was in the forefront of the 'let the ideas flow unstructured' brigade. It was assumed that grammar would be absorbed by some mystical process. It happened - sometimes. It left many students inarticulate and frustrated by their lack of means of expression. It drove employers to despair and still does.

There needs to be a balance. An artist cannot create without some technical skill in the medium. A writer, and all of us have to write sometime if only a note to a tradesman, needs training in the tools of language. With those tools a person can decide whether to use them to do the minimum or to use them as a basis to create something different that no one has ever produced before. Without those tools the ordinary individual and the potential creative artist remains dumb and silent.

Og
 
I agree that good grammar is essential, at least as a foundation, to good writing. By foundation I mean something of what was said about being able to break rules, though perhaps not even knowing the rules.

It's difficult to know if the essay's author really means 'discard teaching of grammar'; I don't think so. It seems to me he has a more important point about the use of rules in the killing of spirit in young children learning to read and write.

I reread Gauche's and Earl's posts and wonder how they came to write as well as they do. I also appreciate Inkstain's point about the political use of language, even at the primary school level. When it comes to testing and labeling people I think it's too bad that grammar rules so uncharitably is all.

The term 'playful' I don't believe has so much to do with 'having fun' as the thing that makes something interesting or appealing. I didn't take to opera until my 40s because I was intimidated by all the stuff of it that is stereotypical of an elite art form. Perhaps that's the key here - "elite". It should not be elitist to speak or write well, but it is. I blame the institution of academia and those who 'write the rules'.

I would like to give children (and adults learning to write) the benefit of the doubt that the rules are there (by virtue that they speak the language). Then I'd help them see what they already know, vs. making them think they know very little.

Perdita
 
I have such a problem with tenses. I don't know why, either. I just can't seen to get it right. Even when I read and re-read the story, it sounds ok to me. What do you guys suggest? How can I get it through my thick skull to fix my tense phrasing?
 
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